Newbie question : What to buy next?

[Jimmy69]

Hello,
I'm after advice on what I need to make a new, very small workshop more usable and efficient. My name's Jim, I'm a hobbyist who has been doing DIY for a good few years but I'd like to up my game and do some more 'finished' projects.
My space is only 5x7 feet so not a lot of room. My tools are a mixture of brands but I do have a TS55 which I bought to do a fitted wardrobe a couple of years ago.

Projects that are in progress at the moment are fitting out a camper van which is aluminium profiles with ply panels, pretty simple. Future projects include a ply kitchen Island, speaker cabinets, bedroom drawers, a ply office desk and some cases for my synths. I've arranged my projects as - one for her - one for me to ease friction [smile].

I don't and never have owned a router and have been looking at the OF1010 and OF1400 and also the MFK 700 to some extent.
I like the look of the 1010 and the price compared to the others but will it handle the jobs I throw at it? Like I say, never had a router before so your advice would be appreciated.. I'd like to be able to easily do dado's, rabbets, dovetails + sliding dovetails and cutting holes for speaker cabs. What is the cutting depth of the 1010?
The other thing I really need is a good MFT type table which brings me onto anther question. Do I go the full Festool or basic + bench dogs etc or make a table + 3rd party extras? I've never worked this way before so I'm not really sure of the pro's and cons.
The full Festool seems expensive but then your fully integrated into the system. My other concern is that, if I don't fully integrate into the system, are there any advantages to getting a 1010 etc? Lots of questions running around my head at the mo' [blink]
Money is a consideration at the moment but I don't want to scrimp out and then regret later. I'm pretty handy with aluminium profile so that's also an option for a table. I'm sure a good few of you have  had these issues of indecision so hopefully I can  learn from your wisdom.
Cheers

 

[cpw]

I don't have a 1400, but do have a 1010 and 2200 (and other non-Festool).  The OF1010 is a nice convenience lightweight package, but can't take a 1/2" bit.  I would instead choose a 1400 (or other non-Festool router that accepts a 1/2" collet).  For things like a dado, I want to have the right size bit and make it in a single pass.  A 2hp router like a DW618 or a OF1400 should be able to do that.  Having the TS55 means you already have a Festool guide rail, and with limited space the system approach to reusing accessories like your guide rail is valuable.

 

[CeeJay]

I’d second the OF1400 due to ability to take 1/2” bits and hence safely handle larger work. I happily use mine as my primary router, but do also have a trim router and a table-mounted unit now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Birdhunter]

Most routers rout reasonably well. What I think what sets Festool routers apart is their excellent dust control when coupled with a good vac. Routers throw off a great amount of debris and dust. I never have to clean up after using any of my Festool routers.

I like to use router bits with a 1/2” shank whenever possible. There is much less chatter than with 1/4” bits. Less chatter means a smoother cut. Only the 1400 and 2200 accommodate 1/2” bits.

I have 2 MFTs hooked together. They lack the ability to mount a real woodworking vise. I had to build an extension for my vise. If I were starting over, I’d buy the MFT top and build a bench for it and include a big vise. Using bench dogs and a TS55 rail would suffice for most cutting operations.

Good luck with your decision.

 

[DeformedTree]

I would buy just a basic MFT.  Tried the Festool rail a bit, didn't like it at all.  Switched to bench dogs.

Buy the rail length you want, though sounds like you make all ready have that.  Everything else, go with the 3rd party.  If festool offers the clamping kit again, it's a good deal when they have it.  I made my own kit when it wasn't available, and then was able to get a kit later, it would have been nice to just buy 2 kits.

Only reason I see to buy a full MFT is if buying a used one of say craigslist and it has those bits and is a good deal.

 

[ChuckM]

Forget about the router, get the DF500 -- the real game changer that no other brands offer (yet).

You mentioned quite a bit about casework (including drawers, e.g.). With the Domino Joiner, you can do any of them. Dadoes? Use dominoes that can do the same job much faster. No test cuts and no worry about loose joint. Unlike in a dado joint, all the shelf pieces are cut the same length as the top and bottom pieces when you use dominoes. See the divider in the image -- imagine the amount of work involved if a dado joint (three dadoes) was used.

Dovetails? No, you can't do them with a DF and a dovetail jig. But 90% of woodworkers who use a dovetail jig don't own a Festool router. You can get a much much cheaper router if you want to do dovetails. Some dovetail jigs offer excellent dust collection. (Or learn how to cut them by hand, I hear Derek advising  [tongue]).

The DF500 (for the kind of work you have in mind) is what you should get (even before any MFT; I own no MFTs but have done many many case work /angled joinery projects).

 

[Stone Message]

Hi [member=73658]Jimmy69[/member]

This is an exciting time for you with everything to look forward to and some fun on the way.

You are planning to do a lot of work with plywood and other sheet materials and so you really must capitalise on the TS55. It is the perfect tool for breaking down sheet goods. The router will be very useful and the OF1010 is a very capable and well thought out tool. More later.

I have to declare a bias and financial interest in my next bit of advice...

Create a tracksaw cutting station that allows you to cut your plywood at near perfect 90 and 45 degrees (30 and 60 degrees are possible too). The Parf Guide System is what I would recommend to create your cutting station and there are plenty of Parf Dogs and accessories available to make it work. End of advertisement !

You asked about the plunge capability of the OF1010. It is 55 mm but I would not have a bit that long hanging out of the end of a 1/4" collet. With 1/4" and 8 mm collets you can use a wide range of cutters but do not expect it to manage big ones - so no panel moulding or lock joints. I use mine 80-90% of the time if you discount the OF1400 that I have in  my CMS-OF router table. If you are starting from scratch with a router do not spend too much on cutters until you know what you want. A cheap and cheerful mixed set of cutters is a good staring point.

Best of luck.

Peter

 

[Roseland]

If cash is tight I would recommend making your own table.  Whilst the MFT is excellent (I have one), you can make a workable table with a piece of 18mm MDF and Peter Parfitt's guide:
https://www.axminstertools.com/ujk-technology-parf-guide-system-mkii-104779

For your sheet work I would favour the OF1010 over the OF1400 (I have both) because it is smaller and lighter and you are unlikely to need cutters that only come in 1/2" shank.  Plus the OF1010 is much nicer for edging:


It has a chip guard which is not available for the OF1400, plus the OF1400 is just too heavy to hang off the side.

The Domino is excellent too, but you can get by with a biscuit jointer at a fraction of the cost and replace it as finances allow; that's what I did.

Good luck,

Andrew

 

[Stan Tillinghast]

Not a newbie in terms of ownership, but finally getting to use both old and new Festool tools, and am finishing up my first cabinet project. I’ve used the domino and the LR32 system because I already own them, but they would probably not have been the next tools I bought if I had only the TS55.
I have owned an OF1400 for a long time, and recently bought an OF 1010. I confess to a bromance with the 1010; it’s so easy to use, dust collection is outstanding, and IMO would be the first router I’d recommend as you will use it a lot.
At some point you will need a sander; although there are much cheaper ones available, if you are concerned about dust collection Festool outclasses the competition. Here I would strongly recommend the ETS EC 125, as far better ergonomically and in dust collection than the ETS 125.
Speaking of dust collection, the new CT 15 is a good deal among Festool dust extractors, and still has the essential HEPA filtration.
So my recommendations I guess would be like this:
1. CT 15 dust extractor
2. OF 1010 router
3. ETS EC 125 sander (with a 150 mm pad that will work perfectly with the less expensive 125 sander)

 

[Jimmy69]

Thanks everyone. Lots of good advice. Wasn't expecting the DF500 and to be honest, hadn't given it a thought, but for speakers, drawer and cabinets in general, it looks the business. Might be purchase number 4!

I visited the local dealer today to try out the 1010 and 1400 for size. Gotta say the I preferred the ergonomics of the 1010 but that's all I could tell from that experience. Nearly pulled the trigger on it but decided to sleep for a couple more days.
After watching a yt clip on finger pulls by Peter Millard, I am a little concerned that the 1010 will be under powered or too small to do a job like that. I'll be wanting to do those on the kitchen Island I have planned. Anyone tried those with a 1010?

Table wise, I'm going to build one and buy a Festool top and 3rd party dogs/fences etc and try to get a vice in there too.. Peter P, your PARF system looks excellent, I've watched a few YT vids on it but I think I'll keep things simple at first. When I need a new top I'll know where to look.

 

[rjboch]

Very exciting to be thinking about setting up. I was there not too long ago and received a tremendous amount of GREAT advice here. In a short year I have evolved from a suite of Festool gear (e.g., MFT/3, OF1400, TS55, DF500, etc.) to now having a garage-based shop centered on a Saw Stop PCS. I would say every purchase and shop addition has been driven by my project needs (mostly hobby work and now focused on remodeling my home - building new cabinets, built-in’s, etc.). While I am primarily now using the table saw for most work, I find myself still constantly using my TS55, assortment of track, and Festool parallel guides. There is no easier way to break down sheet goods! I recently sold my MFT/3 (since I have no need to be mobile) and now just use a large outfeed table for cutting sheet goods, assembly, etc. One item that I have found revolutionary and a reliable go to when using my track saw is the TSO GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Square. I cannot more highly recommend one single Festool accessory that is more valuable (for my projects at least).

So my recommendations would be 1.) let project drive tool purchases, 2.) don’t rely on one way or one brand, but a combination of what works for you, 3.) there is a wealth of information online, and 4.) your work habits and needs will change and evolve over time so stay flexible. No point dropping a grand in the beginning on a tool that you will only use occasionally (e.g., DF500) when there may be a cheaper or better way to do it (e.g., simply cutting a dado or groove with a router). When starting out it may be best to get more bang for your buck.

 

[ScotF]

I think a TS saw, jigsaw, dust extraction and cutting table like the MFT are the three essentials to start. Add a router (1010 or 1400) next and a sander ( I like the Rotex for versatility). These tools will allow you to build most things. I really like Festoo! Drills and would add a T or C style as well to round out your kit.

 

[Stan Tillinghast]

There is a discussion in another thread about Peter Parfitt’s Parf fence. The discussion has to do with the fact that the holes in the Festool MFT are not in fact exactly 96 mm apart so the holes in the Parf fence don’t line up. I have found this to be the case on my 10-year old MFT also; nevertheless I can use the fence, I just can’t plunk down a dog in any hole and expect it to line up with any hole in the MFT.
I say this because if I were starting over, knowing what I know now, I would probably make my own work table using Peter Parfitt’s Mk II Guide System rather than buy an MFT.
But as I say, even though the fit is not perfect, the Parf Fence is still quite usable on the Festool MFT.

 

[Stone Message]

There is a discussion in another thread about Peter Parfitt’s Parf fence. The discussion has to do with the fact that the holes in the Festool MFT are not in fact exactly 96 mm apart so the holes in the Parf fence don’t line up. I have found this to be the case on my 10-year old MFT also; nevertheless I can use the fence, I just can’t plunk down a dog in any hole and expect it to line up with any hole in the MFT.
I say this because if I were starting over, knowing what I know now, I would probably make my own work table using Peter Parfitt’s Mk II Guide System rather than buy an MFT.
But as I say, even though the fit is not perfect, the Parf Fence is still quite usable on the Festool MFT.

Yes, in fairness to Festool, they have never (to my knowledge) made any claim about the accuracy of the holes (both size and spacing) on the MFT3. In most cases the holes are pretty accurately spaced but in many cases the hole size varies a little.

When I first started buying Festool kit and using the FOG I was aware that many people wanted to use dogs for positioning stock and cutting rather than the Festool mechanism. There must be a large amount of FOG computer host memory filled with discussions about trying to keep the Festool MFT guide rail mechanism square, hence the desire to move to dogs in holes.

When Lee Valley took on the original Parf Dogs we had a lot of debate about the variation in hole sizes on various MFT3s which made dog specification tricky. Over the following years I looked for ways of overcoming this. Meanwhile, and I am happy to be corrected, Steve at QWAS used a slight taper to get a good fit irrespective of the hole size. I felt that a family of products that included a standardised method of creating the top and with dogs designed to match was the way to go.

I spent 2 years working on my own Parf Guide System concept and then Axminster offered to join me in the final development and prototyping. There had been the odd hitch a while ago but Axminster's terrific Customer Services stood by their customers and sorted stuff out. Improvements have been made and the design and concept are now mature and quite popular.

My MFT3 was in my first batch of Festool purchases and I use it a lot. However, things improved a lot when I was able to create my own tops. I have also made MFT3 size folding benches although they all seem to have been given away to various visitors.

Peter

 

[ThisVeteranVlog]

[member=73658]Jimmy69[/member], welcome to the craft of buying tools! I have the MFT/3, MFK 700 and the OF 1400. I love both and have had them for many months (I owned a MFT/3 a few years ago as well). My OF1400 is mounted in my CMS, and I've yet to use it handheld as I have the MFK for quick trim routing. I would say that if you are concerned about power and bog down, then invest in the higher powered routers and up/down cut bits. Perhaps finding a used one initially is the best course if money is a consideration.

My method for upgrading in tools is I only make the purchase once I feel I have outgrown my current tool - my aspirations exceed the capabilities of the current tool. Hope this helps and thanks for reaching out to the community!

 

[DeformedTree]

Peter,  good back story for use that were not around when FOG members were busy figuring out woodworking and killing off mammoths roaming around their shops

I would throw out there that since down of parf dogs, Festool may have worked on tightening up tolerance in MFTs.  Maybe not, but they might have made the effort just so all this stuff works better, which then helps them.

 

[Stan Tillinghast]

DeformedTree, do we know that? My MFT is 8-10 years old, I have another in storage even older. I know that the distance between holes is not exactly 96 mm, as mentioned in my post above.
If nowadays Festool is making them exactly 96 mm, I would buy another top and save myself the trouble of drilling one.

 

[DeformedTree]

DeformedTree, do we know that? My MFT is 8-10 years old, I have another in storage even older. I know that the distance between holes is not exactly 96 mm, as mentioned in my post above.
If nowadays Festool is making them exactly 96 mm, I would buy another top and save myself the trouble of drilling one.

No, like I said, we don't know this. But given the time that has gone on, and likely manufacturing evolution in that time, there is a chance they have started holding the tolerances tighter.  Once they saw people using them in the way they are, they might have taken more care.  If they did updates to their machinery, they could have slipped in holding things tighter.  Things will never be Exactly X,  but if they make them with a CNC multi-boring tooling, it should be pretty darn tight of a tolerance.  In the end, we are working with wood, things will only be so tight, humidity/etc will shift things.  Plus Minus a mm is a pretty tight tolerance, if they are down in the .2-.5mm range which is where I would think they should be that is tighter and closer to perfect than anything one can do with them.

I haven't done any big measuring effort, but my MFTs are much newer than yours, I can't say I've noticed any error.

 

[DeformedTree]

I just did about 50 hole to hole measurements.  Using "quality" calipers  [wink].  Measuring across some bench dogs, which themselves have some variation, about 24.91mm diameter.  Measuring across them, got numbers 120.60 to 120.88,    so a .28mm range (so .011"),  or plus minus .0055",  basically a thickness of paper.  Some variation is the dogs in the holes.  Obviously things are coming up a bit short of 96, but that's because the dogs have clearance and get pulled towards each other.

Overall, it's a small sample, measured very unprofessionally, but it's a tolerance I'm not going to complain about, certainly not something that is going to cause issues.

If someone is bored and has access to a CMM machine, it could be a cure for insomnia.

 

[Jimmy69]

So how often are you replacing tops? I know there are a lot of variables in that question Like number of cuts and carelessness of depth etc. I'm using some celotex insulation board to cut 3mm double sided laminate ply and I cant cut in the same place twice without getting some chipping on the underside. Not an Ideal set up but it's where I am at the moment. I wont be working with that ply again anytime soon if ever so maybe it's irrelevant but I'm trying to figure out if I'll need a new top every year(buy a Parf Guide) or every five(buy a top).