Newbie questions about Festool vac, domino and sander

[sloppydogdrool]

I am getting into woodworking after being out for some 20 years.

I am definitely getting a Domino, sander, then down the road possibly a saw and router.  I am curious though to know if I really have to purchase the Festool vac?  I looked up the specs compared to my Shop Vac.  ShopVac has 183 CFM and the Festool vac 137 CFM.  I've read on some other groups one user said his shop vac lacked the power to clear dust quick enough for the domino to work efficiently.  Another user on another forum said the Festool vac lacked the power of a shock vac for floor clean up.

I'd kinda like to not spend $600 on a vac when I already have a large shop vac and plan on having a dust collection system.  I don't want to spend the dollars if I don't have to and I don't want another tool sitting around in my way.  However, my intentions are also to enjoy my hobby and use fine tools that make my hobby more enjoyable.  If I am just causing myself grief then I'll spend the dough on the vac.  So I'd like to know if anyone can provide any first hand experience? 

I read there is  newer version of the domino but I can't tell how to figure out which is the newer.  Most sites don't even list the product #s.  Some of the descriptions are misleading.  For example, one site listed one at $775 and another at $825.  Both items on the website had the exact same description and included the same accessories.  One has to be the kit and the other the tool according to the price.  The only # listed for either was that sites internal inventory #s.

I'm sold on the domino but not so much on the sanders.  I have a belt sander, a planer, jointer and table saw.  I have a small palm sander that does a nice job with finishing.  I'm looking for an upgrade to save on dust.  The one I have does a horrible job with dust collection.  Is there one unit more preferred for final finishing or more of an all around multipurpose sander?

The prices seem to be pretty well protected on Festool.  Is there any way to get a deal or save any money?  I plan to mail order to save tax and free shipping.  I know the vacs are discounted when bought as a kit.  Do they run sales on the tools?  Are dealers allowed to discount anything other than the vacs? 

I do appreciate any information that can be provided.  Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

[welcome]

It's not just about cfm when comparing vacs.  The static lift expressed in  inHg or kpa tells how much draw or suction there is.  CFM tells how much volume of air is moved.  Having had a Shop vac, I can tell you that it makes a huge difference going with a CT vac.

The older Domino had metal "pins".  The newer version uses black "paddles".  User preference as to which is better or liked more, but finding the model with pins will be difficult as that was discontinued.

Festool's prices are set to all dealers.  Package pricing exists for getting a discount and is worth it in my opinion.  There are a number of dealers on the FOG that you can order from.  There names are listed in light blue color.

 

[ajones]

Hi you will not regret buying a domino... you will need a vac to use it as the vac removes the waste from the mortice..I would go with the 26.. The newer domino has paddles on the fence the older model has pins festool USA does do deals... their router deal has just finished

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Like Ken said, there's more to it than just CFM. You can get details about the static lift and other specs on our CT website. Things your shop vac probably won't have:

- HEPA filters
- Self-cleaning filter bags, which is new on the CT 26/36 models and provide higher suction throughout the entire use of the bag
- Variable speed, especially important when sanding
- Tool-triggered operation
- Anti-static
- Onboard systainer storage

Just to name a few. Check out the CT website for more information.

You can find an article on our blog describing the changes to the Domino joiner. I would be surprised if you still found models with the older metal pins. If you search the forum, you can find numerous discussions about the pros/cons and opinions of members on the two types.

As for sanders, most people will probably recommend the Rotex models as the most versatile. They can be switched between an aggressive mode that removes material quickly like a belt sander and a random orbital mode for finish sanding. However, if you just want a finish sander, the ETS 150 is your best bet.

Remember, you have a 30-day no-hassle, money-back guarantee. If you're not sure, give it a try. If you don't like it or don't think it's worth the money, take it back. No questions asked.

I'm sure you'll get plenty of feedback from others. If there's anything I can do to help you out or answer questions, feel free to contact me directly.

Shane Holland
Festool USA

 

[Wood_Junkie]

I am getting into woodworking after being out for some 20 years.

Welcome back!!  And welcome to the forum!

I am definitely getting a Domino, sander, then down the road possibly a saw and router.  I am curious though to know if I really have to purchase the Festool vac?  I looked up the specs compared to my Shop Vac.  ShopVac has 183 CFM and the Festool vac 137 CFM.  I've read on some other groups one user said his shop vac lacked the power to clear dust quick enough for the domino to work efficiently.  Another user on another forum said the Festool vac lacked the power of a shock vac for floor clean up.

However, my intentions are also to enjoy my hobby and use fine tools that make my hobby more enjoyable.  If I am just causing myself grief then I'll spend the dough on the vac.  So I'd like to know if anyone can provide any first hand experience?  

Keep your shop vac and/or get a DC floor sweep for the rudimentary clean up tasks.  The Festool vacs have a distinct purpose, which is to augment the usage of the tools.  It’s part of the system, and it’s an important part.  The variable suction is key for sanding tasks.

I still have a shop vac, and I have a full sized DC.  They all have their place and use.  It depends on what other machines you have.  The Festool CT will suffice for usage with all the Festool tools.
It cannot keep up with a jointer or planer (e.g. machine, not the handheld).  Neither can a shop vac, really.  That’s where a full-sized DC earns its keep.

I now use the shop vac for the basement and “dirtier” clean up (e.g. debris, water, etc)

I'm sold on the domino but not so much on the sanders.  I have a belt sander, a planer, jointer and table saw.  I have a small palm sander that does a nice job with finishing.  I'm looking for an upgrade to save on dust.  

Ironically, the sanders are definitely one of the Festool flagship lines.  They’re amazing.  You will wince as you press “Submit Order”.  But the first time you use it you’ll smile, breath easier, and enjoy better, faster results.  From then on, it’s just gravy!

The prices seem to be pretty well protected on Festool.  Is there any way to get a deal or save any money?  I plan to mail order to save tax and free shipping.  I know the vacs are discounted when bought as a kit.  Do they run sales on the tools?  Are dealers allowed to discount anything other than the vacs?  

Other than the periodic promotions, and the package prices… not really.  The only other advantageous “deal” I’ve found is via credit card offers.  Sometimes you can get $xxx as a credit, for spending $xxx.
For example, a current offering:  Chase Freedom card
Summary:  $100 credit for spending $500 within the first 3 months.  That’s a whole slew of accessories right there, and doesn’t violate anyone’s rules.

Caveat:  Be careful not to ding your credit score getting too many of these!

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Welcome to the slippery slope!  Good advice above.  Here's my own data and bias....

The Domino is unique, nothing else like it out there.  Get it for sure.
The sander is definitely worth it.  The 6 inch format works much faster than the typical 5 inch disks and it is almost dust free.

The vac is a must have in the long run, but you can get by without it for a while.  I have the vac, but I will occasionally run a Festool off a shop vac.  Its not as good as a CT, but it will get you by until the bank account is replenished.  But you MUST run the domino with some sort of vac.  Some of the sanders come with a bag, but I've never used mine.

By the way, the CT doesn't really get in the way - it fits nicely under the MFT, which you will need for your TS and your router [laughing].

See you on the slope!!

 

[AlexThePalex]

I am curious though to know if I really have to purchase the Festool vac? 

Yes, you'll have to get a Festool vac. I'm sorry, but as soon as you've got one Festool, a vac is mandatory.

 

[grobin]

When I bought my domino the dealer let me bring in my old ShopVac.  Was getting on but still did good.  I tried it on the domino and it kinda worked; then I tried a CTmini and that worked great!  The domino mortise needs a solid vac to keep it clear and the mortise uniform.  It produces a LOT of fine saw dust.  I wound up with the Domino DF500Q set CT mini package.  You can get a larger CT though.  I also got the Domino assortment.  No the vac isn't manditory, there will be no Festool  Police coming round. [laughing]  But you get a discount buying a package and the only better or equal vac is the Fein.

I can recommend Tool Home as my dealings with them have been pleasant and timely.

 

[atomicmike]

Going with the larger CTs (26 and 36, or 22 and 33 if you can find them) also opens up the possibility of using accessories like the boom arm and tool holder. The boom arm is a fantastic part of the Festool system, especially for tasks like sanding where the hose is a lot heavier than the tool and tends to pull it around.

- Mike

 

[tbellemare]

I could be considered biased, (being a Festool dealer), but I think you would be missing out on a very valuable part of the equation if you chose not to get a Festool dust collector.

The Domino is truly a special tool and it will change the way you do a lot of things, for the better. I'm always finding new things to do with it and it is continually solving problems quite easily that would be kind of tedious without it.

As was already stated, you should try to take advantage of the package deals. Essentially, if you buy a tool with either a CT dust extractor or an MFT, you get 10% off either the MFT or the CT. It's significant unless you're rolling in dough and if you're rolling in dough, you have probably paid attention to details like that...

For sanding, the adjustable suction of the Festool CT dust extractors is important. Too much suction causes sanders to be hard to handle and results to suffer.

Tom

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I too think it's a good idea to keep the Shop Vac around.  I use mine for flood cleanup and the really disgusting stuff that I would never want to ruin my beautifully expensive German machine  [big grin].

 

[GPowers]

I too think it's a good idea to keep the Shop Vac around.  I use mine for flood cleanup and the really disgusting stuff that I would never want to ruin my beautifully expensive German machine  [big grin].

+1 for me.

I also use the shop vac for wet stuff and water.

 

[tbellemare]

Me too... Actually, I have one in the garage/shop and one in the storage shed.

My honey has been using a CT 26 to clean the house and loves it so I can't really agree with those that think it isn't a great cleaning system.

Tom

 

[Kevin Stricker]

Any tool activated dust extractor will work.  Festool, Fein, Bosch, Mafel, etc. etc.  I bought a Fein Turbo II new for $250, and it equals the CT22 in power and is quieter.  It just doesn't have variable suction or docking for your systainers.  You should be able to pick up a used CT22 or 33 now that the new models are out.

The best way to get deals on Festool is to buy used.  They make the tools very rugged to withstand constant abuse, so just about any tool bought from a hobbiest will be almost like new in my experience.

I check Craigslist daily, have have bought over $5k in Festools that way.  Some were basically new, and I always shoot for around 70% of new price for like new tools.

I saw a CT Mini and RO 150 on Craig's list last month for $250 each from the same guy in mint condition.  If I already didn't have 2 dust extractors and 4 Festool sanders I would have jumped on it.  Currently looking for a HL 850 and a an OF2200.....You just have to be patient.

 

[waho6o9]

Dust deputy comes to mind, it will save on vacuum bags.  Welcome back and to the forum.  [smile]

 

[fdengel]

The vac is a must have in the long run, but you can get by without it for a while. 

Not with most of the sanders, like the Rotex...

The variable suction feature is essential to get good results from many of these sanders.

 

[AdamM]

I used my Ridgid shop vac for about 2 years on the Domino and TS55 and it worked fine.  Just get one of these switches so your shop vac will turn on automatically:
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2005855/18215/ISocket-Vacuum-Automator.aspx

You'll want to upgrade your hose though to something smaller and more flexible...the 2" inch plastic hoses that come with shop vacs are too stiff and bulky.

The Fein step adaptor is great for adapting vac hoses to festool products:
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2021144/30399/Fein-Step-Adaptor.aspx

You'll probably end up getting a CT eventually....I just waited until I found a good deal on craigslist.

I also second the Dust Deputy suggestion, especially with a CT as they have lower capacity bags.  You get a lot more life out of your bags that way.  And it's fun watching the dust swirl around in the little cyclone!  [smile]

 

[grobin]

I third the dust deputy.  It isn't that necessary on the Domino or TS55 but if you hook a router or small bandsaw to your CT the bags fill up way too fast without it.  All the Ct series has the same intake port just different hose sizes so get the 50mm hose to go to the dust deputy.

 

[billybokay]

My opinion is the Dust collector  should be included in the first purchase. It is the basis for the whole system. In fact I was so sick of a screaming shop vac, I researched a quality alternative to what I had at the time and discovered festool. I reluctantly purchased the ts55 with the vac just to get a better deal.  Now 4 ct's and almost all their other tools I cant imagine live any other way.

 

[grobin]

BTW I don't see a newer domino set but the Assortment of dominoes and bits has been upgraded.