Nova Voyager Drill Press
- Thread starter Mario Turcot
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PeterJJames13
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[member=66597]Mario Turcot[/member] Thanks! I've been following how everyone here has got that head on! I'll be making room tomorrow (finally a day off for me!!) so when it gets delivered (hopefully by next weekend) I can get it in place (with help from a friend who I owe some beers to). That way if I do any more damage to myself, the surgery will fix it anyway lol. I figured get whatever heavy lifting out of the way now lol.
Cheese
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gnlman said:
Very interesting... as I know nothing about VFD's. So all you need is a VFD, a chassis to mount the drive and electrical connections and a digital readout? Is that correct?
You'd use the existing motor?
I also assume you place the drive belts on the fastest speed position.
Hi Cheese. Not meaning to hijack Mario's thread, just wanted to offer a cheaper alternative to those who already had a good drill press especially an older one of good quality that you just can't seem to buy anymore.
In addition to the VFD, you need to replace the motor on your press with a 3 phase motor so the VFD can drive it...Seems to be good practice to go up a size. ( in my case I went from 3/4 to 1 HP.)
I didn't know anything about VFD's either, but lots of resources on the net Youtube ect., and these small ones are fairly plug and play. Lots of reading on the manual before beginning.
The VFD I bought converts 110volt to 220 volts which you'll need to run the 3 phase motor. The VFD basically send pulses to the motor allowing you to change the speed.
You can put your belts on highest speed, but you will loose low end torque by doing so. I picked a happy medium which gives me the slow low end torque to use large bits at slow speeds, but can also adjust VFD so it can run the motor at double the rated speed.
Have a look at youtube and you'll get some great ideas. I'm sure there are lots of folks on this forum who are more informed than I am about these little drives. If you have more questions perhaps it would be better to PM me, or start another thread so we don't steal Mario's well deserved thunder while his drill press still has that new car smell....lol
Greg
In addition to the VFD, you need to replace the motor on your press with a 3 phase motor so the VFD can drive it...Seems to be good practice to go up a size. ( in my case I went from 3/4 to 1 HP.)
I didn't know anything about VFD's either, but lots of resources on the net Youtube ect., and these small ones are fairly plug and play. Lots of reading on the manual before beginning.
The VFD I bought converts 110volt to 220 volts which you'll need to run the 3 phase motor. The VFD basically send pulses to the motor allowing you to change the speed.
You can put your belts on highest speed, but you will loose low end torque by doing so. I picked a happy medium which gives me the slow low end torque to use large bits at slow speeds, but can also adjust VFD so it can run the motor at double the rated speed.
Have a look at youtube and you'll get some great ideas. I'm sure there are lots of folks on this forum who are more informed than I am about these little drives. If you have more questions perhaps it would be better to PM me, or start another thread so we don't steal Mario's well deserved thunder while his drill press still has that new car smell....lol
Greg
Mario Turcot
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[member=8389]gnlman[/member] all good Greg. I find it interesting myself and I believe this could also apply to a lathe?
Hi Mario. Yes lathes, pumps all sorts of things.
By the way, the company that makes your drill press also makes lathes with the same abilities as your press...they adapted that technology to make the drill press...as I'm sure you already know.
Yes, in my research found may folks that take an older lathe and adapt a vfd to it allowing more control. I don't have a lathe, but thinking of one when I retire and have more time...I have looked at the nova lathes and they seem very nice...not that I know much about lathes...lol
I started the adventure when I read a post about a fellow than adapted the vfd to his drill press He was very knowledgeable and gave a very good explanation of how it worked. I tried to purchase the same vfd as he had, but as with all electronics that version was done and ended up with basically the same thing only a newer version. If you are interested, download a manual for a vfd and give it a read....much like a new computer user, it takes a bit to understand how it works. I have a pretty good understanding of electricity, and I find most woodworkers are pretty handy wiring motors by simply following the diagram on the motor.If you have any concerns you just post a picture and someone here will steer you in the right way....the folks here are pretty darn nice.
My VFD project was well over a year ago, and while I remember some things, I would have to go back to my notes and manual to give out accurate info. If you decide to go this route, you could PM me and I'll do what I can to help you...but like I said before I'm sure there are experts on this forum that could answer questions better than I......
The one thing I do remember struggling with was the motor...many people said you needed a motor with a fan that ran all the time to keep them motor cool...I believe these were call "inverter duty" motors...I bought my motor from the vendor that supplies my workplace with all of our motors. When I explained what I was doing he told me I didn't need to spend the extra money for an "inveter" motor as the drill press will not run long enough for the motor to get hot....not sure about a lathe.It might be worth some investigation to make sure you get the correct type of motor for the application....it's the torque that the VFD applies that will heat the motor up when going slow....my motor stays nice and cool even though at low rpm's the fan on the motor runs slowly, but not for very long period of time....it's never even gotten warm using large bits or hole saws...
I tested the vfd and motor on my bench (make sure you clamp the motor down...don't ask my why....lol) first and get it working before installing it..easier if you need to rewire ect....
I really had a lot of fun tricking out the drill press..I eliminated the middle pully , and got rid of some vibration I had before. I also now have the other parts to run the VFD in a remote fashion. The VFD has low voltage and smart outputs that allow you to connect speed controls..(volume pot basically) forward reverse switches, on off controls ect....this allows you to not have the vfd mounted to your machine (like I do now), and saves you moving thru menu's to change things by using hard controls....this once again requires picking some options in menus on VFD, but nothing anyone couldn't figure out by reading the manual....afterall I figured it out..lol
Maybe this winter I'll get to wiring the hard controls the the drill press and then I can mount the vfd on the wall in a box to protect it a bit from the dust and vibration....hopefully...lol
The other really cool thing about it is I have it set up to stop with my large paddle on my press..its stops in a heartbeat in case you have an emergency where something gets away on you....safety first!!
Also, while the vfd will display your rpm's, it requires some special gear and measuring....I took the easy way out and bought a digital rpm gauge(the display in the decora switch cover in my pictures under the VFD) from amazon for around 20 bucks...you simply epoxy a magnet to your front pully, mount the pickup for the magnet close to it, and it pulses a signal to the display giving you your rpm's...brilliant!!
Hope this helps...if you have any more questions, fire away, and thanks for letting my crash your post....haha
Greg
By the way, the company that makes your drill press also makes lathes with the same abilities as your press...they adapted that technology to make the drill press...as I'm sure you already know.
Yes, in my research found may folks that take an older lathe and adapt a vfd to it allowing more control. I don't have a lathe, but thinking of one when I retire and have more time...I have looked at the nova lathes and they seem very nice...not that I know much about lathes...lol
I started the adventure when I read a post about a fellow than adapted the vfd to his drill press He was very knowledgeable and gave a very good explanation of how it worked. I tried to purchase the same vfd as he had, but as with all electronics that version was done and ended up with basically the same thing only a newer version. If you are interested, download a manual for a vfd and give it a read....much like a new computer user, it takes a bit to understand how it works. I have a pretty good understanding of electricity, and I find most woodworkers are pretty handy wiring motors by simply following the diagram on the motor.If you have any concerns you just post a picture and someone here will steer you in the right way....the folks here are pretty darn nice.
My VFD project was well over a year ago, and while I remember some things, I would have to go back to my notes and manual to give out accurate info. If you decide to go this route, you could PM me and I'll do what I can to help you...but like I said before I'm sure there are experts on this forum that could answer questions better than I......
The one thing I do remember struggling with was the motor...many people said you needed a motor with a fan that ran all the time to keep them motor cool...I believe these were call "inverter duty" motors...I bought my motor from the vendor that supplies my workplace with all of our motors. When I explained what I was doing he told me I didn't need to spend the extra money for an "inveter" motor as the drill press will not run long enough for the motor to get hot....not sure about a lathe.It might be worth some investigation to make sure you get the correct type of motor for the application....it's the torque that the VFD applies that will heat the motor up when going slow....my motor stays nice and cool even though at low rpm's the fan on the motor runs slowly, but not for very long period of time....it's never even gotten warm using large bits or hole saws...
I tested the vfd and motor on my bench (make sure you clamp the motor down...don't ask my why....lol) first and get it working before installing it..easier if you need to rewire ect....
I really had a lot of fun tricking out the drill press..I eliminated the middle pully , and got rid of some vibration I had before. I also now have the other parts to run the VFD in a remote fashion. The VFD has low voltage and smart outputs that allow you to connect speed controls..(volume pot basically) forward reverse switches, on off controls ect....this allows you to not have the vfd mounted to your machine (like I do now), and saves you moving thru menu's to change things by using hard controls....this once again requires picking some options in menus on VFD, but nothing anyone couldn't figure out by reading the manual....afterall I figured it out..lol
Maybe this winter I'll get to wiring the hard controls the the drill press and then I can mount the vfd on the wall in a box to protect it a bit from the dust and vibration....hopefully...lol
The other really cool thing about it is I have it set up to stop with my large paddle on my press..its stops in a heartbeat in case you have an emergency where something gets away on you....safety first!!
Also, while the vfd will display your rpm's, it requires some special gear and measuring....I took the easy way out and bought a digital rpm gauge(the display in the decora switch cover in my pictures under the VFD) from amazon for around 20 bucks...you simply epoxy a magnet to your front pully, mount the pickup for the magnet close to it, and it pulses a signal to the display giving you your rpm's...brilliant!!
Hope this helps...if you have any more questions, fire away, and thanks for letting my crash your post....haha
Greg
Huxleywood
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The problem with heat in the motor run via VFD is not the torque (torque will remain more or less the same across most of the speed range like a bell curve with the top flattened) but the lack of cooling. The normal induction motor has a fan running off the shaft at the same speed of the motor which is normally the synchronous speed, reduce the frequency and thus the RPMs and the fan moves less air. An inverter duty motor has windings with higher temp insulation, at sustained low speeds (lower frequencies via VFD) a motor with low temp insulation can see the insulation fail and you have a short in the windings and a dead motor.
The main issue to be overcome running a 3 phase DP via VFD is while the torque stays the same (with a quality VFD) you lose the torque multiplication of the belt system, this is one reason it is generally a good idea to use a larger motor. To get the optimum performance one needs to pick the gearing (via the belt system) that allows the lowest speed needed while running the motor at the highest RPMs balanced against the highest RPM needed without "overclocking" the motor at more than say 70hz. Just like in a car it is important to understand the role of both torque and horsepower and how gearing impacts how much of each you have at a given rpm at final drive.
In the end, the digitally controlled variable reluctance motor use in the Voyager has a lot of advantages over a VFD controlled 3ph motor in this application, it really is a better mousetrap. The only real negatives being cost and the potential lifespan of the electronics.
The main issue to be overcome running a 3 phase DP via VFD is while the torque stays the same (with a quality VFD) you lose the torque multiplication of the belt system, this is one reason it is generally a good idea to use a larger motor. To get the optimum performance one needs to pick the gearing (via the belt system) that allows the lowest speed needed while running the motor at the highest RPMs balanced against the highest RPM needed without "overclocking" the motor at more than say 70hz. Just like in a car it is important to understand the role of both torque and horsepower and how gearing impacts how much of each you have at a given rpm at final drive.
In the end, the digitally controlled variable reluctance motor use in the Voyager has a lot of advantages over a VFD controlled 3ph motor in this application, it really is a better mousetrap. The only real negatives being cost and the potential lifespan of the electronics.
Cheese
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gnlman said:
Thanks for the info Greg. [big grin]
I have an older Delta that I like a lot. I purchased it because its slow speed is 150 rpm for metal work however it also has ZERO speeds from 550 - 1000 rpm. That's a big hole in the middle. [sad] Just looking at alternatives... [smile]
Hi Cheese. You are welcome. Yes these little drives will give you all the speeds you want depending on how you set them. I can run mine quite slow, and have a hard time stalling it with my hands with gloves on....my drive ( I suspect most have this) has a torque boost setting so you can increase it...not sure what that does to the motor, but it does make the fan on the VFD run harder as I'm sure the VFD is working harder to produce the extra torque...much like your computer fans run harder when it's thinking really hard...lol
See I told you someone more experienced than I am would chime in...lol ( thanks Huxleywood )....I stand corrected, and should have mentioned the fixed fan speed on a non inverter motor..yes the fan only runs as fast at the motor turns...that is what can lead to motor failure...and it's the torque that the vfd is producing that make the vfd run harder/warmer...in my case anyway. I've also seen where folks have mounted external computer type fans that run when motor is turning on to aid in cooling as well. Bit of a junkyard fix, but if you already had a non inverter motor, or found a used one this could be a good workaround...if buying new, I'd suggest you get the correct motor for the application.
Also, yes the direct drive system on the voyager is the best for minimising any torque loss. My drill press has ribbed belts, not V belts. They seem to grab quite well, and I have yet to spin them on the pulleys....although I had a harder time sourcing a ribbed belt, than a v belt..I eliminated the middle pulley on my press so I needed a longer belt. I didn't quite 1 to 1 on the pulleys so I could achieve more bottom end torque...you can increase the settings on the vfd to run the motor faster (don't set it too high) but I've never found a need for my drill press to go 3000 rpm yet...lol
If you decide to trick your delta out, do lots of reading and youtube first. I watched videos where folks were disappointed as once they slowed the speed down they lost so much torque the low speeds were useless to run forsner bits or for tapping purposes so be weary of some of the really cheap offshore drives that don't have a torque boost of some sort. Also, you can buy drives that you can remove the control panel so you can mount the vfd off the machine which is nice to keep it clean and free from any vibration. In addition you can also get drives where you remove the control panel (like a remote) and move it from machine to machine it will remember what machine it's running and keep your settings for that machine....it's pretty cool that all than technology is now available at prices reasonable for hobby guys ect.
If you decide to give the vfd a go, post your project here, you'll get lots of help I'm sure and it would be great to see.
Greg
See I told you someone more experienced than I am would chime in...lol ( thanks Huxleywood )....I stand corrected, and should have mentioned the fixed fan speed on a non inverter motor..yes the fan only runs as fast at the motor turns...that is what can lead to motor failure...and it's the torque that the vfd is producing that make the vfd run harder/warmer...in my case anyway. I've also seen where folks have mounted external computer type fans that run when motor is turning on to aid in cooling as well. Bit of a junkyard fix, but if you already had a non inverter motor, or found a used one this could be a good workaround...if buying new, I'd suggest you get the correct motor for the application.
Also, yes the direct drive system on the voyager is the best for minimising any torque loss. My drill press has ribbed belts, not V belts. They seem to grab quite well, and I have yet to spin them on the pulleys....although I had a harder time sourcing a ribbed belt, than a v belt..I eliminated the middle pulley on my press so I needed a longer belt. I didn't quite 1 to 1 on the pulleys so I could achieve more bottom end torque...you can increase the settings on the vfd to run the motor faster (don't set it too high) but I've never found a need for my drill press to go 3000 rpm yet...lol
If you decide to trick your delta out, do lots of reading and youtube first. I watched videos where folks were disappointed as once they slowed the speed down they lost so much torque the low speeds were useless to run forsner bits or for tapping purposes so be weary of some of the really cheap offshore drives that don't have a torque boost of some sort. Also, you can buy drives that you can remove the control panel so you can mount the vfd off the machine which is nice to keep it clean and free from any vibration. In addition you can also get drives where you remove the control panel (like a remote) and move it from machine to machine it will remember what machine it's running and keep your settings for that machine....it's pretty cool that all than technology is now available at prices reasonable for hobby guys ect.
If you decide to give the vfd a go, post your project here, you'll get lots of help I'm sure and it would be great to see.
Greg
Huxleywood
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gnlman said:
Let's clarify a few things. An inverter duty motor still has a fan that runs at the shaft speed of the motor, it simply has higher temperature winding insulation to handle the excess heat when running the motor at frequencies below the native AC frequency it is designed for, in the US that is 60hz. Some inverter duty motors also have bearings specced to run at higher than the motors synchronous speed allowing you to run the motor at higher frequencies than native. An average motor will have little issue running up to 70hz unless it is run constantly.
The "torque boost" feature of VFDs is really a constant torque setting to combat the loss of torque at lower frequencies you get with more basic drives. You don't get more torque just the same torque, this is why it is usually a good idea to use a higher HP motor (which will have more torque) for an application like a DP where you plan to give up the torque multiplication of the pulley system.
The wider the RPM range you want to run the more time you have to send speccing the correct motor. If you look at most modern variable speed lathes they use a 3ph motor and a VFD to control speed, you will also see they usually run 2 (or even 3) pulley based speed ranges to improve the torque at low speeds.
I assume you mean cogged belt vs ribbed belt, a ribbed or multi-V belt would require a pulley change. The cogged belts have the advantage of higher power transmission as well as they transmit less vibration which is important since the vibration will increase when you use a longer belt to exclude the intermediate pulley set. If you find cogged belts don't provide enough vibration isolation then you can try link belts.
Hmmm just re read my post, and it did perhaps make it sound like inverter duty motors had a different type of fan....but yes the fan only runs as fast as the motor speed on both types of motors...hence for my application according to our motor/VFD vendor I didn't require the more expensive robust inverter motor...like I said different applications may require a different motor.
Nope it's a ribbed belt....hence the difficult time sourcing a longer belt to eliminate the middle pulley....had to order it from the US. I did have to tighten it more than I cared for once the middle pulley was eliminated as it had a tendency to deflect at higher speeds. ( still may fashion and idler for it) I would have preferred a pulley change to use a link belt, but the taper on the drill press spindle is quite odd, and the time and money didn't seem worth it once I had the press up and running....Good enough for what I do at home, and it runs a lot smoother and quieter than it did before the upgrade..especially once I fine tuned the vfd settings.
My reference to torque was all about the bottom end....it's where I notice it (real life application)when using larger bits below 500 rpm and the vfd appears to be working harder to supply the needed power to spin the larger bits ( the drive gets warmer, and cooling fan runs continuous)....assumption would be I haven't noticed it spinning higher speeds as bits are smaller, and well I'm using wood....but do understand it's a boost across the entire range.
Greg
Nope it's a ribbed belt....hence the difficult time sourcing a longer belt to eliminate the middle pulley....had to order it from the US. I did have to tighten it more than I cared for once the middle pulley was eliminated as it had a tendency to deflect at higher speeds. ( still may fashion and idler for it) I would have preferred a pulley change to use a link belt, but the taper on the drill press spindle is quite odd, and the time and money didn't seem worth it once I had the press up and running....Good enough for what I do at home, and it runs a lot smoother and quieter than it did before the upgrade..especially once I fine tuned the vfd settings.
My reference to torque was all about the bottom end....it's where I notice it (real life application)when using larger bits below 500 rpm and the vfd appears to be working harder to supply the needed power to spin the larger bits ( the drive gets warmer, and cooling fan runs continuous)....assumption would be I haven't noticed it spinning higher speeds as bits are smaller, and well I'm using wood....but do understand it's a boost across the entire range.
Greg
Mario Turcot
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Hi Mario -
My top is 32" x 17 1/2. It's 3/4" phenolic birch. I cut out the right rear to allow the crank to turn.
The second layer is 1/2" baltic birch that is 17 1/2 x 19. It's glued and screwed together with a replaceable insert.
Attached are a few photos.
I made inserts to fit the metal table cutouts to make attachment and removal easy.
I've been really happy with the phenolic top and have not seen any bowing at all.
neil
My top is 32" x 17 1/2. It's 3/4" phenolic birch. I cut out the right rear to allow the crank to turn.
The second layer is 1/2" baltic birch that is 17 1/2 x 19. It's glued and screwed together with a replaceable insert.
Attached are a few photos.
I made inserts to fit the metal table cutouts to make attachment and removal easy.
I've been really happy with the phenolic top and have not seen any bowing at all.
neil
Attachments
Jiggy Joiner
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You guys are so lucky, on this side of the pond, the Nova Voyager's are as rare as rocking horse s**t
I have got one on order, which hopefully arrives in June, I really hope it does arrive otherwise I'll sulk like a baby!
I have got one on order, which hopefully arrives in June, I really hope it does arrive otherwise I'll sulk like a baby!
Mario Turcot
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Thank you Neil, those are really useful pictures. You gave me some ideas on how to affix it securely and quick.
Hang on there Jiggy, you won't be disappointed the day you will put it together [big grin]
Hang on there Jiggy, you won't be disappointed the day you will put it together [big grin]
Trevin
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I just received my Nova last week and it is awesome! It runs so smooth. I put a Shar keyless chuck on it and my woodpecker table and I just love this thing. I love the ability to just turn the rpms up or down. I did a "nickel" test on the drill with the nickel on my woodpecker table and it did not move even at 5000 rpm! I have not checked the runout yet but so far I am very happy with it....
Mario Turcot
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[member=62034]Trevin[/member], please share some picts of your setup and accessories [smile]
Trevin said:
Jiggy Joiner
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Mario Turcot said:
Thanks Mario, I can’t wait!
Jiggy Joiner
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[member=66597]Mario Turcot[/member] You were absolutely right Mario, mine arrived this morning, what a piece of kit!
I’ve used many pillar drills over the years but, nothing like this, it really is like nothing else. I am going to put a keyless chuck on it, probably a Rohm.
Very pleased with it though, it’s amazing! [thumbs up]
I’ve used many pillar drills over the years but, nothing like this, it really is like nothing else. I am going to put a keyless chuck on it, probably a Rohm.
Very pleased with it though, it’s amazing! [thumbs up]
Mario Turcot
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Jiggy Joiner said:
Congrats, now lets bore some holessssssss [big grin]
The only thing I wish the Nova Voyager have is a square pillar to stabilize the center point. I'm wondering why today's drill press are not offering that feature.
