Number of mortises?

[BillG]

Almost two years ago I built a couple of beds for two of my grandsons.  I posted a series of pictures here, including this one below.



Each of the slats in the bed received two Domino mortises in each end, along with the corresponding mortises in the rails of the foot and head boards.  That made for lots and lots of holes, not to mention the fun of lining everything up when it came time to glue it up. 

I am in the process of building a king size bed for a customer using a similar design.  The slats will be the same width, 3 1/2".  Before I start in with my Domino, I was wondering what the wisdom here might think.  Are two mortises per end overkill, or a good idea as opposed to one.  I don't mind doing two, but if I can save some time and effort without compromising the project, I am all for that. 

Thanks. 

 

[Holmz]

I would err towards 3 if you are considering an odd number. It is not unheard of for beds to have high impact loading.
Would a step routed or dado/rebated into the side be better? Certainly cheaper than a stack of Dominos, and I would be worried about the domino coming out the side of the wood. A radius routed in might avoid a split at the root of the step?

 

[BillG]

These are not the slats that hold up the mattress.  They are vertical in the head and foot boards.

 

[Wuffles]

I'd use two like you did originally, but I am an idiot.

I could see me kicking one of those in my sleep and spinning it round if it just had one in the middle.

And in the photo, is the bed MASSIVE against that normal sized door? Just kidding, I did a double take though. Like I said, I'm an idiot.

 

[BillG]

Haha, the beds are somewhat on the massive side, but that door is just a knee wall door.  I built them to resist the gentle ministrations of some fairly active little boys.  We bunked them earlier this year when the next child arrived.  I have two more to make now, but I have some time. 

 

[tjbnwi]

Use two as you did before. 3.5" wide piece could cup, 2 would limit this chance.

Tom

 

[BillG]

Use two as you did before. 3.5" wide piece could cup, 2 would limit this chance.

Tom

Yeah, cupping is my biggest concern.  With the kids, it is kids bouncing off the sides.  With this customer, I'm not so much worried about that. 

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

One real M&T joint.

 

[ear3]

That's a nice simple, classic design.  Just curious -- since I have floating somewhere in the middle of the project list a new bed for the master bedroom -- what you used for joining the bed rails to the head and foot boards.  Are they permanently secured with dominoes, or did you install metal hooks/bolts to knock them down later?

 

[BillG]

That's a nice simple, classic design.  Just curious -- since I have floating somewhere in the middle of the project list a new bed for the master bedroom -- what you used for joining the bed rails to the head and foot boards.  Are they permanently secured with dominoes, or did you install metal hooks/bolts to knock them down later?

Thank you.  Here is a link to the post I made after I delivered the beds to my daughter and her husband.  It has some pictures of the mortise and the hardware I used to join the rails. 

http://festoolownersgroup.com/member-projects/a-couple-of-sturdy-beds/msg314768/#msg314768

And here is a link to the hardware from Rockler. 

http://www.rockler.com/locking-safety-bed-rail-brackets

They have other choices.  I am not sure I will use this same hardware for this king size bed though.  It is nice, but I am not sure it is heavy duty enough for a king.  The locking feature is nice for preventing little boys who like to take things apart in their quest to disassemble the bed.  Once they get a hold of a screwdriver though, that warranty expires. 

 

[ear3]

Thanks -- so you would go with brackets rather than bolts for sturdiness then.

 

[rvieceli]

[member=37411]Edward A Reno III[/member]

IMO the brackets are a weak point in any bed design. the traditional way would be a real mortise and tenon with the mortise stopped about a third of the way or half way through the member. Then a bed bolt or two through the joint with the nuts in the rail.

Here is Fine Woodworking link to show the joint:

http://www.finewoodworking.com/item/29834/the-bed-bolt-joint

You might be able to get by with using two Dominoes glued into the rail and the bed bolt in between them with the corresponding mortises on the leg.

The bolts can exert and significant amount of force in keeping the joint tight. The tenons are in shear though.

 

[BillG]

Thanks -- so you would go with brackets rather than bolts for sturdiness then.

If it is sturdy you want, go with bolts.  I will say this about brackets though.  Twenty five years ago I built a set of bunks for the mother of these boys and her sister.  My skills, my tools, and the hardware I had available to me were all less than today.  But those beds are still in service, and these boys use them when they come to visit.  They are still plenty sturdy.  Having written that, I will repeat that I don't think I would use this type on a king size bed. 

 

[ear3]

Thanks for the replies.  The only thing about bolts I don't like is their visibility on the posts, but I guess that may be the necessary sacrifice for absolute sturdiness.

 

[rvieceli]

[member=37411]Edward A Reno III[/member]

The traditional method is to counterbore the hole to sink the bolt head below the surface and then cover it with some sort of escutcheon that is usually pinned at the top so it can rotate out of the way.

I like the "honest"  [big grin] nature of the exposed fasteners and have been incorporating them into  the piece lately.

This is a 3/8 inch stainless steel socket head cap screw in a piece of walnut. It is drilled and counterbored to drop the head just below the surface:

 

[ear3]

Thanks [member=3192]rvieceli[/member] Honesty is the best policy, as they say.  I was imagining the rather large hole that I would have to counterbore to fit and access a hex head bolt, but I like your method of doing a socket cap screw since it cuts way down on the bolt footprint, demanding a hole no larger than the narrow head of the fastener.  And I would get to sharpen my traditional M&T skillz, which have lapsed since I got the Domino.

[member=37411]Edward A Reno III[/member]

The traditional method is to counterbore the hole to sink the bolt head below the surface and then cover it with some sort of escutcheon that is usually pinned at the top so it can rotate out of the way.

I like the "honest"  [big grin] nature of the exposed fasteners and have been incorporating them into  the piece lately.

This is a 3/8 inch stainless steel socket head cap screw in a piece of walnut. It is drilled and counterbored to drop the head just below the surface: