this staircase is constructed entirely using festool domino machine. It saved HOURS of work and is completely solid. All treads were dominoed into stringers, and stringers and handrails dominoed into newel posts. Every woodworker should invest in a domino machine, sell your morticer and buy one!
oak staircase made with festool domino
- Thread starter 56north
- Start date
Sparktrician
Member
That came out really well. Good job!!!
[smile]
[smile]
Im not so sure. I do staircases for a living & i dont think i would ever do this. Dont want to sound negative but i think all stair treads should be housed in. I noticed you have a router there, why not make a jig & house them ? Hope it all stays strong for you though.
Woodguy.
Woodguy.
Guy Ashley
Member
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2010
- Messages
- 662
An interesting concept and it may very well be a new method that will be suitable but I would be interested if any structural engineers have figured out the load bearing capacity of such a construction, especially as they are open with no risers to take weight.
Maybe Woodguy7 and I are just long in the tooth and jaded joiners (sorry Woodguy!! [tongue])but sometimes you look at something and it just doesnt sit right.
Please dont take my comments as disrespectful, that is the point of forums like the FOG where people can openly and honestly debate the methods of how you have done this.
As I said it may be a way forward and I am always open to new ideas.
Maybe Woodguy7 and I are just long in the tooth and jaded joiners (sorry Woodguy!! [tongue])but sometimes you look at something and it just doesnt sit right.
Please dont take my comments as disrespectful, that is the point of forums like the FOG where people can openly and honestly debate the methods of how you have done this.
As I said it may be a way forward and I am always open to new ideas.
Sparktrician
Member
woodguy7 said:
Woodguy, your comments make me wonder about the practicality and benefits possible by combining a housed stringer with the domino for additional strength.
[smile]
I dont know if you could combine the 2. You would not get the depth for the dominoe once the housing has been cut. I do use the dominoe to join the handrails to the newel posts but would always house the treads. Maybe im just too much of a traditonalist.
Yea Guy, i think we are of the "old" school. JMB i dont want to hear it [poke] [smile]
Yea Guy, i think we are of the "old" school. JMB i dont want to hear it [poke] [smile]
Sparktrician
Member
woodguy7 said:
I was thinking that if you cut the mortises in the stringers first, adding the depth of the housing to the depth of the cut, then rout the housings at the normal depth, that might work and add lateral strength. Thoughts?
[smile]
joiner1970
Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2007
- Messages
- 3,222
Sorry but I agree with the above, treads really should be housed in apart from strength it looks much better. Some things are "traditional" for a reason. [smile]
ajones
Member
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2010
- Messages
- 2,073
When I build a staircase the housing in the sting is a tight fit for the tread so it crushes the tread around the nosing and so the tread is taped in from the rear.so dominos no good for me.
I dont like the idea of that flight without any risers giving it strength has anyone done any sheer calulations/tests on dominos?
I dont like the idea of that flight without any risers giving it strength has anyone done any sheer calulations/tests on dominos?
Rob-GB
Member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2009
- Messages
- 1,101
First thing [welcome] to the FOG
Very nice looking stair, very clean lines and modern style. I like it.
However; I too, am an old school, stuck in the mud, long toothed joiner ;D
I prefer to see treads and risers housed into the strings, even stub risers for open rise stairs.
That said, the thickness of your treads would provide enough strength to not need the additional support from risers.
(for the span between strings) The use of Dominoes for jointing treads to strings is interesting and I think may be okay for "Private" (domestic) stairs...
but (you knew there would be one ;D) for "Institutional & Assembly" stairs there would need to be a fair bit of testing done to pass the regs.
Structural engineers (from experience) are great at working out stuff for cast concrete or steel stairs, timber confuses them or is not in the study notes at college [dead horse]
On another note I am just wondering about the timescale of your project? For me; making a jig and routing for the treads and risers would have been a mornings work..... I think all those Domino mortices/setting out would take me a lot longer, don't get me wrong though, I love my Domino and it's ever increasing uses [big grin] and it makes aligning handrail joints a breeze.
Rob.
Very nice looking stair, very clean lines and modern style. I like it.
However; I too, am an old school, stuck in the mud, long toothed joiner ;D
I prefer to see treads and risers housed into the strings, even stub risers for open rise stairs.
That said, the thickness of your treads would provide enough strength to not need the additional support from risers.
(for the span between strings) The use of Dominoes for jointing treads to strings is interesting and I think may be okay for "Private" (domestic) stairs...
but (you knew there would be one ;D) for "Institutional & Assembly" stairs there would need to be a fair bit of testing done to pass the regs.
Structural engineers (from experience) are great at working out stuff for cast concrete or steel stairs, timber confuses them or is not in the study notes at college [dead horse]
On another note I am just wondering about the timescale of your project? For me; making a jig and routing for the treads and risers would have been a mornings work..... I think all those Domino mortices/setting out would take me a lot longer, don't get me wrong though, I love my Domino and it's ever increasing uses [big grin] and it makes aligning handrail joints a breeze.
Rob.
jmbfestool
Member
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2009
- Messages
- 6,646
woodguy7 said:
I didnt see this comment last time I looked!
Old school Boys! To be honest if I was to make stairs I would be to worried just using dominos and im one for the easiest and quickest way with powertools!! I must admit housing is the way even though Im not within the UK Old school boys! (Rob-GB, GuyAshley, woodguy7) [poke]
Haahaaa! [tongue]
It's a nice stair and fits in well.
However as Rob and Woodguy say it would be faster with a jig on straight runs wouldn't it?
It would certainly save time on winders though but stairs take some serious punishment.
I have considered the idea in the past but chickened out [scared] .
However as Rob and Woodguy say it would be faster with a jig on straight runs wouldn't it?
It would certainly save time on winders though but stairs take some serious punishment.
I have considered the idea in the past but chickened out [scared] .
What it really comes down to is that any downward force on the treads would be evenly distributed amongst the dominos. The more dominos, the stronger it would be (within reason until you've not got enough tread wood left!).
So the real question is what is the (tested) shear strength of a single Domino (of the size he used). In reality, you would never expect much more than a max of 300 pounds to be on a tread at any given time. I think it's pretty safe to say that's an extreme (like when your mother-in-law visits or you're moving a piece of furniture in [wink])
Since there are 12 dominos per tread, then under that scenario, your load would be (300 / 12) = 25 lbs per domino.
That seems to me like a reasonable weight load on the larger dominos. Other factors would be (as usual) the failure of the encapsulating wood if it split out on the mortise under the load. I'm sure the number would be much higher in a "stomping"
load.
Caveat: I'm not a structural engineer and my college physics prof told me "you have a bright future, but not in physics".
So the real question is what is the (tested) shear strength of a single Domino (of the size he used). In reality, you would never expect much more than a max of 300 pounds to be on a tread at any given time. I think it's pretty safe to say that's an extreme (like when your mother-in-law visits or you're moving a piece of furniture in [wink])
Since there are 12 dominos per tread, then under that scenario, your load would be (300 / 12) = 25 lbs per domino.
That seems to me like a reasonable weight load on the larger dominos. Other factors would be (as usual) the failure of the encapsulating wood if it split out on the mortise under the load. I'm sure the number would be much higher in a "stomping"
load.
Caveat: I'm not a structural engineer and my college physics prof told me "you have a bright future, but not in physics".
Static weight is different than the dynamic weight that a heavy moving body would subject the stairs to. Surely you remember being a teenager running up and down the stairs (and being told to walk over and over and over). That said, I've no idea how strong it would need to be, but it sure looks great.
Mark
Mark
Ken Nagrod
Member
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2010
- Messages
- 3,431
My advice is to just use every other stair tread. That'll give you twice the life of the entire staircase when the treads break. [big grin]
Definitely looks nice, but I must concur with woodguy and others that the treads should be morticed / 'let in'... Iv'e gone through boxes of doms doing stairways, but the treads /risers are always routed into the stringers. I use a modified MFS, which can accommodate any combination of tread depth/ thickness and riser Height/ thickness.
I'll try to find some picts...
If You utilize a very hard drying Glue (PU), the Adhesion can break as the wood moves seasonally and you could end up with noise, but that would be the least of your worries.
just my 2cents.
I'll try to find some picts...
If You utilize a very hard drying Glue (PU), the Adhesion can break as the wood moves seasonally and you could end up with noise, but that would be the least of your worries.
just my 2cents.
