OF1010 rumor
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Jason White said:
You might want to check out this thread: https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/festool-announced-a-update-version-from-the-of-1010-ebq-(calld-of-1010-rebq)/msg642618/#msg642618
Peter
AlexThePalex
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Jason White said:
It never will. It is in the small segment, 8 mm max. For a 1/2'' collet you'll need the OF1400.
woodbutcherbower
Member
Jason White said:
The world will never see a 1/2" collet router the same size as the 1010 or anything close. 1/2" cutters need a big, beefy motor to drive them at the necessary speed and torque. There just isn't the physical space in a small machine to accommodate that - not from Festool, not from anyone. Not until some genius designs a 2.2kW/3hp motor the size of a thimble.
Crazyraceguy
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The real problem with that is having a machine that is just too small to hold onto with some big profile bit that could potentially mounted to it.
Sure you a can get smaller bits with 1/2" shanks, but the sky is pretty much the limit on the big end too. They could limit the baseplate hole size to keep the bit diameter down, so you couldn't insert some giant panel raising bit, but there are still some serious sized bits out there at lesser diameters.
You really need some mass in the machine to counter the bit's force and the OF1010 is just too small/light for huge cutters.
The OF1010 is a great tool, I love mine, but I don't push it hard enough to feel the need for a bigger shanked bit. 8mm is quite a step up from 1/4" and good enough for a lot of what I do anyway.
Sure you a can get smaller bits with 1/2" shanks, but the sky is pretty much the limit on the big end too. They could limit the baseplate hole size to keep the bit diameter down, so you couldn't insert some giant panel raising bit, but there are still some serious sized bits out there at lesser diameters.
You really need some mass in the machine to counter the bit's force and the OF1010 is just too small/light for huge cutters.
The OF1010 is a great tool, I love mine, but I don't push it hard enough to feel the need for a bigger shanked bit. 8mm is quite a step up from 1/4" and good enough for a lot of what I do anyway.
mino
Member
... is IMNSHO the (lack of) 8mm or 5/16 bits availability in the US.Crazyraceguy said:
Over here the market has converged at
- 6mm for dedicated trimmers (
Crazyraceguy
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There are actually a couple of routers that hit that middle ground, here in the US. The Porter Cable 890 (and the older 690) hit that 1 3/4hp middle range as well as the Body-grip Milwaukee that I like so much. All of these come with both 1/4" and 1/2" collets. They are a little big for tiny bits, but not huge and heavy machines, still big/powerful enough for all but panel raising bits.
Metric diameter collets/shanks are not really available in retail situations, like home improvement stores, but not impossible for those who would actually want them.
6mm and 1/4" are so close that it wouldn't be worth the trouble, or cause the confusion. They are available in some profiles that I absolutely would not use. The funny thing is that the cheapest , must junk brands are the ones most likely to have these sizes. I would not buy or use a 3/4" rounder-over or a 3/4" x 1/2" rabbet bit with a 1/4" shank, but they are out there.
8mm are pretty much the same, available mostly Amazon and specialty stores, not regular retail.
3/8" bits are really only available as solid carbide spiral or compression profiles, usually CNC applications. Most hand held routers need an adapter bushing to use them. I don't recall ever seeing a steel shank/brazed carbide 3/8" shank bit?
12mm are not here at all. I assume the same as the 6mm-1/4" confusion factor.
1/2" shanks are available for nearly any bit profile, even the smallest are out there, but the cost keeps a lot of people from buying them.
Until I got into Festool routers, I tried to buy almost every bit with 1/2" shank. I only bought 1/4" shanks for the laminate trimmer profiles.
When I got my first MFK700, I started looking into 8mm shanks. I discovered Lee Valley first and they had what I needed for it. I didn't really bother with any more because the next one I got was a used OF1400 and it was capable of running 1/2".
It was really the OF1010 that had me looking further for 8mm. I also learned about Amazon UK, they have a lot more. I got a Bosch set from there and have added a few more as needed since.
Most of my routers are dedicated to one specific bit, even one of the MFK700s. The Triton in the table and the OF1400 and OF1010 are the ones that get different bits each time the get used.
Metric diameter collets/shanks are not really available in retail situations, like home improvement stores, but not impossible for those who would actually want them.
6mm and 1/4" are so close that it wouldn't be worth the trouble, or cause the confusion. They are available in some profiles that I absolutely would not use. The funny thing is that the cheapest , must junk brands are the ones most likely to have these sizes. I would not buy or use a 3/4" rounder-over or a 3/4" x 1/2" rabbet bit with a 1/4" shank, but they are out there.
8mm are pretty much the same, available mostly Amazon and specialty stores, not regular retail.
3/8" bits are really only available as solid carbide spiral or compression profiles, usually CNC applications. Most hand held routers need an adapter bushing to use them. I don't recall ever seeing a steel shank/brazed carbide 3/8" shank bit?
12mm are not here at all. I assume the same as the 6mm-1/4" confusion factor.
1/2" shanks are available for nearly any bit profile, even the smallest are out there, but the cost keeps a lot of people from buying them.
Until I got into Festool routers, I tried to buy almost every bit with 1/2" shank. I only bought 1/4" shanks for the laminate trimmer profiles.
When I got my first MFK700, I started looking into 8mm shanks. I discovered Lee Valley first and they had what I needed for it. I didn't really bother with any more because the next one I got was a used OF1400 and it was capable of running 1/2".
It was really the OF1010 that had me looking further for 8mm. I also learned about Amazon UK, they have a lot more. I got a Bosch set from there and have added a few more as needed since.
Most of my routers are dedicated to one specific bit, even one of the MFK700s. The Triton in the table and the OF1400 and OF1010 are the ones that get different bits each time the get used.
Cheese
Member
Crazyraceguy said:
Milwaukee has always offered 3/8" collets as an option for their routers, that goes back at least 25+ years. It was always looked upon as an oddball item but I've noticed that recently Whiteside, Vortex & Amana are now offering a larger selection of 3/8" router bits. I don't know the reasoning behind it, it could be because of the proliferation of small CNC table top routers?
woodbutcherbower
Member
Even though the UK has been fully metric for decades, we still buy router bits which have 1/4” or 1/2” shanks - the manufacturers refer to them as 6.35mm or 12.7mm. We also buy 12.7mm drill bits, we still measure fuel economy in miles per gallon, we buy pints of beer, and weigh ourselves using stones and pounds....
mino
Member
Yeah, I never wondered about 1/4 v.s 6mm, they have basically the same use case.Crazyraceguy said:
Similar with 12 mm and 1/2"
What I find strange is it seems in US is no "medium" collet like in Europe the 8 mm one is.
I will try go on a tangent here:
----------------------------------
I guess this can come from when Europe switched to metric, in past the English were a major tool exporter so 1/4 and 1/2 were common between the world wars. Same as in US. But the Germans (and French) hated the English with a passion, so went all-metric wherever feasible very early on. Think 19th century early on.
With the 6,8,10 and 12 mm newly available "standard" sizes, this probably created the opportunity to "rethink" the optimal collet size right about time the handheld routers became a mass product. Eventually 6 mm was a direct "conversion" from 1/4", so that was clear. 12mm was again a direct "conversion" from 1/2" use cases. But 6 mm was even weaker to 1/4" and for hand-held routers of the era, something stronger was sought => HEY! we got 8 mm that is a good fit for our weak 1 hp motors. Lets go for it! And over time this was proven "strong enough" in that it displaced some use cases away from the 12 mm/1/2" bits category which were dedicated to bigger tools.
Just a though.
Either way I think there is a place for a "medium" collect size between 1/4" and 1/2" and that 8 mm is ideal as it is just 0,8% bigger than 5/16", making it an ideal "cross-system" size where one collet can probably accept both sizes even. Just that the momentum of the market makes it difficult for any new "standard" to get traction.
mino said:
Haha, this is the most ridiculous metric-bashing I've read so far [laughing]
They went metric because the French conquered them and forced it on them. Then after the French were defeated they returned to their silly units out of vengeance untill they realized it was actually just better to keep it.
The hate factor is probably reverse and might explain why the Brits never caught on. Well, besides not being conquered by Napoleon of course.
Either way; if you want to dump something French; ditch their bicycle tire valve (Presta). It's complete baloney compared to the (American) Schrader valve. [tongue]
woodbutcherbower said:
Maybe the latter is the reason why the UK has the highest obesity % of all of Europe (except Malta); they just don't understand their own weight. [big grin]
Hank Johnson might be afraid the UK will tip over [cool]
Jason White said:
Just out of curiosity ...................... why not?
Seth
Guess 1; the guide bushing movement issue...
Guess 2; the overall weight and size compared to the OF-1400
Guess 3; the plastic dust extraction connection
Can't really think of anything else. I have both. I like them both.
Most recent thing that the OF 1010 routed was XPS insulation [big grin]
Guess 2; the overall weight and size compared to the OF-1400
Guess 3; the plastic dust extraction connection
Can't really think of anything else. I have both. I like them both.
Most recent thing that the OF 1010 routed was XPS insulation [big grin]
Cheese
Member
Festool doesn't change existing tools around much from year to year. Some consider that a bad thing, however, I consider that a good thing providing you have the basic package correct in the first place, which I think Festool generally does a good job with.
DF 500 upgrade...good thing...although offering the original base as an option would have been nice.
Kapex upgrade...good thing...eliminating smoking is always a good thing.
TSC 55 K upgrade...good thing...an increase in blade life and battery life is always welcomed.
OF 1010 upgrade...bad thing...the change from a metal elliptical DC port to a round plastic DC port isn't exactly ground shaking news and the swapping of positions of prominent features is also not ground shaking, but the most worrisome of all is the missed opportunity to incorporate LED lighting. What were they thinking...an opportunity to transform the 1010 into the best full-featured small plunge router in the market and they completely missed the opportunity. I don't get it...I really don't. I've not been kind in the past regarding my remarks to the product management team and unfortunately I'll continue to be unkind to those folks. It's an unkindness that's much deserved and one they've actually embraced, weird as that is.
Maybe I'm just clueless but I always thought product improvements/upgrades were meant to increase sales and thus drive market share. Please explain to me how a new round plastic dust port will provide that function. What a goofy deal, Festool has always been wrestling with this conundrum. The imperial versus metric debate is just another disastrous talking point.
I'm so disappointed with the supposed 1010 upgrade...I'll not be upgrading as there's nothing to upgrade to. Festool, y'all let me know when you actually decide to get serious about upgrading the 1010 and then I'll gladly vote with my $$$.
PS. I did upgrade to the new TSC 55 K because that actually is an upgrade. If it's an upgrade I spend the $$$, if it's not an upgrade, I'll just complain and ask the question...WHY? [big grin]
DF 500 upgrade...good thing...although offering the original base as an option would have been nice.
Kapex upgrade...good thing...eliminating smoking is always a good thing.
TSC 55 K upgrade...good thing...an increase in blade life and battery life is always welcomed.
OF 1010 upgrade...bad thing...the change from a metal elliptical DC port to a round plastic DC port isn't exactly ground shaking news and the swapping of positions of prominent features is also not ground shaking, but the most worrisome of all is the missed opportunity to incorporate LED lighting. What were they thinking...an opportunity to transform the 1010 into the best full-featured small plunge router in the market and they completely missed the opportunity. I don't get it...I really don't. I've not been kind in the past regarding my remarks to the product management team and unfortunately I'll continue to be unkind to those folks. It's an unkindness that's much deserved and one they've actually embraced, weird as that is.
Maybe I'm just clueless but I always thought product improvements/upgrades were meant to increase sales and thus drive market share. Please explain to me how a new round plastic dust port will provide that function. What a goofy deal, Festool has always been wrestling with this conundrum. The imperial versus metric debate is just another disastrous talking point.
I'm so disappointed with the supposed 1010 upgrade...I'll not be upgrading as there's nothing to upgrade to. Festool, y'all let me know when you actually decide to get serious about upgrading the 1010 and then I'll gladly vote with my $$$.
PS. I did upgrade to the new TSC 55 K because that actually is an upgrade. If it's an upgrade I spend the $$$, if it's not an upgrade, I'll just complain and ask the question...WHY? [big grin]
mino
Member
LOL, it was actually meant as explanation .. there was a non-commercial incentive to not use English units which were the de-facto "world standard" thanks to their industrial prowess in 19th century. At that time, "inch" was actually different everywhere in the world as it was a not a global standard.Coen said:
In this environment, given the Germans wanted/needed to export, their natural choice was not to use the *English* imperial inch which had political connotations for their customers (the French) but to use something else (German inch being obsoleted by SI agreement by then) which was the then-new SI system.
Ref, "Germans were conquered by the French so adopted SI stuff", you sure know it was actually the other way round. Couple years before the 1875 SI conference the French got a thorough beating from the Prussians in the 1871 war ... that war was quite important BTW, as it was the catalyst for the unification of Germany into the German Empire.
My main point was that there was needed an -external- , non-commercial, factor to allow the (I believe better) SI system to win and, in turn, to create the conditions for the intermediate collet size to become prevalent. And even that took the better part of a century to take place.
Were it left for the market, most likely the most-prevalent "English inch", later "metric/standard inch" would have likely stayed put and there would be no equivalent of the 8 mm collets on the market as it is not in the US.
The sheer momentum of the consumer and small-business markets mean that a game-changing characteristic or a strong external incentive is required to challenge a prevalent standard of the time. Being just "better" is not enough. What is "better" anyway ...
As the 6+8+12 mm "system" is not *that* better to a 1/4"+1/2" system to make that happen, I do not see that happening any time soon if ever. 8 mm is likely to get better availability, given the prevalence of online shipping these days which have less inventory restrictions, but that is about it.
mino
Member
The cynic in me would answer:Cheese said:
Well, they needed to keep something out what they can upgrade in 2030, right ?
The pragmatic answers:
They may not have found a (good enough in their view) way how to install a light in a such vibration-prone location without a redesign of the motor/housing assembly.
The "new" OF 1010 R is more of a facelift than a new tool gen.
The dust port was a must to complete the migration to bayonet ,some fiddling with the controls based on ergonomics studies/feedback and that is about it. Similar like with the TS55 F.
A truly "new" OF 1000 watt-range tool would be (order of probability in my view):
- a bit better torque and about 1100 W peak power
- ratcheting collet system
- LED light
- new hybrid screwed/quick-fit template interface
- kitchen sink ?
All of these would require a proper tool redesign to be done right.
Me happy, as will avoid my sole expected non-bayonet Festool. But that is about the end of the enthusiasm.
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