OF1400 Purchase

bruegf

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Joined
Mar 11, 2007
Messages
821
I've decided to take the plunge and purchase the OF1400.  I'm also thinking I'll get the MFS400 or MFS700 and possibly the Hole drilling set or set in systainer.  Any recommendations as far as the MFS400 vs 700 and hole drilling set vs set in systainer, as well as other "must have" accessories.

I don't have a specific use in mind (I've got an empty drawer in my sysport that needs filling :->), although I'll probably be tackling a set of euro-style kitchen cabinets later this year.

Thx

Fred
 
bruegf said:
Any recommendations as far as the MFS400 vs 700 and hole drilling set vs set in systainer, as well as other "must have" accessories.

Fred--

Start with MFS:  Notes on the MFS and be sure to read Jerry Works' manual and Brice Burrell's thread (links to both in the Notes).

MFS vs hole drilling set?  Apples and oranges.  Only thing they have in common is your wallet.  :D

If you think you're ever going to get the hole drilling set, go ahead and get a rail with holes.

Ned
 
Ned,

I udnerstand that the MFS is completely different from the hole drilling set.  I was asking more about the hole drilling set vs the set w/ systainer.  There's a big difference in price and was more wondering if the difference in price is worth it.

Plus I was wonder if there any other accessories that one should really have.

Thx

Fred
 
bruegf said:
I've decided to take the plunge and purchase the OF1400.  I'm also thinking I'll get the MFS400 or MFS700 and possibly the Hole drilling set or set in systainer.  Any recommendations as far as the MFS400 vs 700 and hole drilling set vs set in systainer, as well as other "must have" accessories...

Fred

Fred,

I just got the OF 1400 and the MFS 700. I had planned to get the MFS 400 but my dealer recommended getting the 700. His reasoning was that the 700 could do anything the 400 could, but not vice versa. He was technically correct, but it has only taken me a few days to realize that the 700 is just too awkward in a small configuration. So, the best (and most expensive) answer is that you should have both.

John
 
joraft said:
I just got the OF 1400 and the MFS 700. I had planned to get the MFS 400 but my dealer recommended getting the 700. His reasoning was that the 700 could do anything the 400 could, but not vice versa. He was technically correct, but it has only taken me a few days to realize that the 700 is just too awkward in a small configuration. So, the best (and most expensive) answer is that you should have both.

John--

Since you've already got the MFS 700, all you need is the 200 extrusions to give you MFS 400 capability.  You might be able to get these from Festool Service.  Tell them you'd like to buy the MFS-VFP 200 extension profile, part #492722.  That part number is a pair of profiles.

A while back they got some MFS-VP 700s (492724) in which allowed those of us who started with the MFS 400 to "complete the set". 

The MFS-VP 700 pair that I bought came complete with all fittings, just like the extrusions in the kits.

Ned
 
joraft said:
So, the best (and most expensive) answer is that you should have both.

I may do that depending on what other accessories I pick up.  I've not used a router very much so still not sure what else to consider though.

Thanks

Fred
 
It looks to me like the guide plate from the Hole Drilling set would provide the same function of the guide stop.  Is there a reason you would need both.  Any other accessories that are "must have" items?

Thanks

Fred
 
bruegf said:
I've decided to take the plunge and purchase the OF1400.  I'm also thinking I'll get the MFS400 or MFS700 and possibly the Hole drilling set or set in systainer.  Any recommendations as far as the MFS400 vs 700 and hole drilling set vs set in systainer, as well as other "must have" accessories.

I don't have a specific use in mind (I've got an empty drawer in my sysport that needs filling :->), although I'll probably be tackling a set of euro-style kitchen cabinets later this year.

Thx

Fred

Fred, 

I faced the the same question regarding the basic hole drilling set versus the complete set in a Systainer a few months ago.  I opted for the basic set because my planned main use was for shelf pin holes.  I also bought a 5 mm brad pointed bit (use a Festool bit, it works much better than a generic 2-flute straight bit which I tried before purchasing a Festool bit!) and the short LR 32 (hole drilling guide rail).  If I then had an interest in Euro cabinet hinge installation, I probably would have purchased the complete set which would have included high quality drilling bits, clamps and a systainer to keep everything that is needed togeter.  Thinking back on it, I've purchased a couple of pairs of clamps subsequently anyway (A woodworker can never have too many clamps, or clamps of too many different types and sizes!!), and a Systainer.  And eventually, I'll probably end up buying Euro hinge drill bits.  So...., think about what you want to do now and later, then purchase accordingly.

Dave R. 
 
Hi,
  I have been using the OF 1400 with the hole drilling setup for over a year now with great results.  I came from large shops where, for years, we did high volumes of custom cabinets such as wall units.  We used a multi bit line boring machine to machine the 32mm spaced 5mm holes & the 8mm holes for the carcass assembly dowels.  These machines are very accurate & dependable, & expensive.  Now people rely on these big CNC machines, don't get me started about those  :P  I rely on the above mentioned router for the shelf holes & the domino now fror the assembly doweling (Now instead of biscuits ;)).  I do this all at the bench with great speed & accuracy.  I can't afford, nor do I need the big machines.  They are meant to be in full time use, especially those CNC monsters.  These Festools have given my small shop, big shop capabilities.
  Anyway, I'm now a one man shop with lower volume.  I need to produce several carcasses at a time though for a wall unit or such.  The LR 32 hole drilling set rocks.  I had to get the rail, & the kit & the OF 1400, but I knew it would give me alot of needed capabilities.  Maximum punch for the buck, you know.
  As far as the MFS 400 & 700, I don't see those as being neccessary.  I routinely, for years, have plunge cut what I call "window templates" for my routing operations.  These are cut at the table saw & remove the center of a scrap piece of plywood or mdf.  They are cheap, & infinitely adjustable.  I believe this is how most of the commercial shops handle this.  I've seen this done for 25 years, all over.
  There are too many complex needs in a cabinet shop enviornment to "prepurchase" a special jig for every application.  Besides making templates & keeping them hung on the shop walls is half the fun. 
 
Fred'
Here is my take on the LR 32 - Question is, Complete set with the systainer or just the set ?

For $178 the set, which is the "heart" of this system - is $ 228 dollars less than the Complete set. That has the Systainer, a 35mm hinge bore bit and two 5mm dowel drill bits. Oh and two Linear or "longitudinal" stops with knobs.

To make the $178 set useful you will need to order The Longitudinal stops Part # 485760 for two ($10.70) and the 2 knobs for same # 436195 ( $2.00) You will also need the 5mm Dowel drill bit # 491066 ($23.00) So that brings us to $213.00, and thats still $194.30 less then the complete set. At this point the only thing missing from the complete set is the systainer,  two clamps and the 35 mm hinge bit. While using the Festool 35mm bit is practical, the use of a dedicated hinge boring jig for the door hinge hardware set up streamlines this process. So at nearly the same cost you get "more" of a complete system by going alacarte. 

I would take that savings and apply it to a hinge boring jig tool such as the  Blum Ecodrill  or one of the many hinge boring jigs that have the 35 mm hinge bit and much more. This will give you a more user friendly kit (Les the systainer) but with  much more by way of ease when drilling the door hinge pattern. Less set up time and more bang for the buck. The Blum ecodrill and Mark Summerfeld's Easy Bore Hinge boring jig comes with the 35 mm bore bit and two 8mm bits built into the tool. When you get to the hinge boring - the usefulness of these tools will quickly become apparent.

Just my .20 cents

 
Hi,
  I don't know about the hinge boring.  It seems uneccessary to me.  I have a 35mm bit I bought for my drill press (a drill press should only set you back $300.00 or so & the bit was cheap) & forget about the two holes for the screws.  Just bore the 35mm hole (usually about 3mm in from the door edge).  Then just use a square, with a hinge in the 35mm hole, & a Vix Bit, in your portable drill, to drill for the screw holes.  Use #5 flat heads.

  The shelf holes alone are what you need this for.  Shelf holes are refered to as lineboring, & must be accurate.  The 32mm spacing of the 5mm holes is important.  They are not just used to apply shelf pins though, but for all types of hardwares, including the Euro Hinge plates (using the euro screws).  The holes go approximately 1-3/8" (verify this w/metric) back from the edge, which is spec. for the hinge plates.  The plates can go directly into the shelf holes you bored as there will be no shelf right there anyway.  Once the plates are on the cabinet, just lay out the center of the plates on your doors & bore for the hinges ( I often just hold the door to the cabinet & mark the centers.  This method is foolproof.

Hope this helps.
  Just go alacart on the parts & purchase extra 5mm bits.  Then build your own box, or drawer for this kit! 
 
That's the conclusion I've been slowly reaching after staring at the Festool catalog all weekend.

BTW - my dad showed me a slick way to get the hinges aligned for drilling the mounting pilot holes after the cup holes have been drilled in the proper location.  Place both hinges in the cup hole and then take a straightedge and place it against the flat at the back of the hinge.  Push gently to align both cup flats against the straightedge.  Then use a self centering drill bit to drill the pilot holes. 

He was at one of the woodworking shows where Blum rep was trying to convince him he needed one their jigs.  He mentioned how he did it and the rep told him it wouldn't work, so he showed him - it works!

Thanks for the input.

Fred
 
Fred,
  Your Dad is absolutely right.  Don't buy the jig. 
I like the straight edge idea too, but for me I only use a combo. square off the edge of the door.  The hinges have alot of flexibility in their assembly & focusing on just one hinge at a time is the important thing.  I find that when I spread myself out to focus on the alignment of two or three hinges at once, I'm reaching across the whole door to hold it all & then reaching to each hinge to drill.  By staying on top of each hinge, you'll have greater accuracy & speed.  Remember, that door edge is ripped & then veneered, laminated, dressed & or sanded by the time you apply the hinges.  It might not be exactly the straightedge that your steel straight edge is.  Also, if dust got between the fence on the drill press & the door your holes will vary in distance from the door edge.  All these things are minor & the euro hinges are designed to adjust so well in three directions that none of it matters.  I feel if you try to place a steel straightedge against the cups on a long door with more than two hinges, the dead on straight edge will always only sit against two, or only the center cup.  This negates the contact to the remaining hinges & can lead you to frustration over why this is.  :P
  Just remember, the fact that each hinge cup is square to the edge's adjacent 4-5", you'll always be fine.
  Oh, & it's just woodwork, not a machinists shop.  Nothing we deal with is perfectly square enough for them.  I've never seen a truly square corner to a room, yet I seen many stunned trim carpenters, who don't know how to scribe fit a cabinet or counter. 
  One more thing,  don't use too large a fence on your drill press for the same reasons.  You only want the contact at the edge by the hinge you're drilling on the drill press.  If the door is sitting against high or low spots in other areas, it affects your spacing from the edge at your location.  Add a kerf to the bottom edge of this fence, for the dust, as well.  This can just be a block of wood clamped down, or screwed down, to a sub table.
  I hope this all helps, & remember it's just woodwork  ;)  Oh, and to check your doors & cabinet fronts for square, just measure the diagonals corner to corner of the entire cabinet face or door face.  If you place a combo. square in the cab. corners & on the door corners, you may not be satisfied that it looks square enough.  That's when you need to step back & look at the big picture, the whole assembly.  A melamine or plywood carcass might not look perfect against a small square, but that won't affect how the doors align & adjust on the assembled whole.  I build some wall units with 20 to 35, or more, doors & drawer fronts, spread across a large wall in a big room or business.  The doors, on euro hinges, will have 3/32" spaces when done & when you look at the finished assembly all will align perfectly, after the final hinge adjustments.  If any thing is not perfect at this point, the spaces will show as tapers, & at 3/32" it shows.  By focusing on the whole at this point the assembly is easy.  By focusing on the individual hardwares, as they are installed, (& your joinery), you'll assure a perfect assembly at the end, each time.
  P.S. as far as the fancy jigs & devices in the catalog go. Most are not essential to a professional, at least not all the fancy catalog versions.  We've experienced an explosion in interest & the catalogs make alot of money, not furniture.  I make furniture & not much money, ha-ha.  I see an awful lot of the jigs I've been using for years in the shop, made from scrapwoods of the floor,  now in the catalogs.  They are not my jigs either, they are common to professionals.  Things like beams for a router to cut radii, & elipse jigs.  Router tables themselves are made from plywoods & clamped to horses.  In my shop I refine my jigs & keep them on the wall.  I never considered a value for these items, yet they produce alot of my work, repeatedly & consistently, some for years.  Some of the catalog jigs are based on good solid proven designs & others are bells & whistles.  Keep it simple.
 
Overtime said:
Fred'
Here is my take on the LR 32 - Question is, Complete set with the systainer or just the set ?

For $178 the set, which is the "heart" of this system - is $ 228 dollars less than the Complete set. That has the Systainer, a 35mm hinge bore bit and two 5mm dowel drill bits. Oh and two Linear or "longitudinal" stops with knobs.

To make the $178 set useful you will need to order The Longitudinal stops Part # 485760 for two ($10.70) and the 2 knobs for same # 436195 ( $2.00) ......................

Patrick, my set (part # 583290, the $178 set) came with the Longitudinal stops (Festool calls them linear clamps) and knobs.
 
That's right, it all came in the kit.  All I had to get was the router & the rail to go with it.
 
Overtime said:
To make the $178 set useful you will need to order The Longitudinal stops Part # 485760 for two ($10.70) and the 2 knobs for same # 436195 ( $2.00) You will also need the 5mm Dowel drill bit # 491066 ($23.00)

Actually, Patrick, what Brice said.  Unless things have changed recently, the basic set includes the longitudinal stops and knobs (though they are not listed).  Fred, might want to check this with Festool or Bob Marino or your favorite dealer.  I bought without the systainer, added one 5mm bit and works great!

 
Overtime said:
Fred'
Here is my take on the LR 32 - Question is, Complete set with the systainer or just the set ?

For $178 the set, which is the "heart" of this system - is $ 228 dollars less than the Complete set. That has the Systainer, a 35mm hinge bore bit and two 5mm dowel drill bits. Oh and two Linear or "longitudinal" stops with knobs.

To make the $178 set useful you will need to order The Longitudinal stops Part # 485760 for two ($10.70) and the 2 knobs for same # 436195 ( $2.00) You will also need the 5mm Dowel drill bit # 491066 ($23.00) So that brings us to $213.00, and thats still $194.30 less then the complete set. At this point the only thing missing from the complete set is the systainer,  two clamps and the 35 mm hinge bit. While using the Festool 35mm bit is practical, the use of a dedicated hinge boring jig for the door hinge hardware set up streamlines this process. So at nearly the same cost you get "more" of a complete system by going alacarte. 

I would take that savings and apply it to a hinge boring jig tool such as the  Blum Ecodrill  or one of the many hinge boring jigs that have the 35 mm hinge bit and much more. This will give you a more user friendly kit (Les the systainer) but with  much more by way of ease when drilling the door hinge pattern. Less set up time and more bang for the buck. The Blum ecodrill and Mark Summerfeld's Easy Bore Hinge boring jig comes with the 35 mm bore bit and two 8mm bits built into the tool. When you get to the hinge boring - the usefulness of these tools will quickly become apparent.

Just my .20 cents

Overtime/Fred,

Has Festool changed its packaging?  When I purchased the basic hole drilling jig last year, it included the plate to which the 1010 or 1400 router is attached, the needed fasteners (6mm screws for my 1400 router), a centering mandrel, and the Side Stops, all in a cardboard box with an OK set of instructions.  My Hole Drilling Set contains the components exactly as shown as item #7on page 54 of FestoolUSA's 2007 catalogue. Item #583290.  You will NOT need to purchase a set of stops in addition to this set!  The difference in the "Big set" Item #583291 is that it additionally has a Systainer, an insert to hold the components, a pair of short FSZ clamps and several drill bits, as listed in the catalogue.

Dave R.
 
OK  You won't be needing those Longitudinal Stops and knobs  ;D  It's in there !   Sorry for the bad info. So thats 12 bucks more towards your 35mm hinge bore bit,  stuff - table - jig  - MFK 700 etc.   ;) 

Yes you can use a drill press and strike lines set stops, depth etc and use all kinds of clever ways to complete the hinge bore process but even so - " the usefulness of these tools (jigs) will quickly become apparent." I don't consider a hinge boring jig a gadget - it's just another tool like the Kreg pocket hole jig is more than a gadget it's a tool. Now whether or not you want or need one - well thats up to you.
 
If you own a drill press, a hinge boring jig is absolutely just a gadget.  Just chuck a 35mm bit in the drill press, adjust the table hieght to allow the bit to bore 1/2" deep into 3/4" thick door (or whatever your door is), then fasten (clamp down, screw to sub top, 18 ga. brad nail down,.......) your scrap block fence at about 3mm from the bit 3mm = a light 1/8").  Rabbet the bottom edge of this block 1/8" square to allow for dust clearance.
  That's it.  A 2-3 minute set-up.  I don't see how any "hinge boring jig" is faster than that. Nor is it nearly as accurate.
  The holes are aligned, on the drillpress, to a center mark on the door, one at a time.  This is not a critical or difficult appproach, & no fence stops are required.  The hinges are fully articulated & your holes can be off by the thickness of a pencil line or so, & will still adjust as needed, even for several hinges along the door edge.  The hinge moves in six directions once on the cabinet.  For two doors, mark one & then butt the other to it, edge to edge, & mark the second door.  I usually just hold the door edge to the cabinet, in an open position, & mark the centerlines from the hinge plates.  Always install the hinge plates in the cabinet first.
  Once it's set up bore a test hole in a small square scrap of wood & see how the hinge applies to the cabinet.  Check your adjustability range of the hinge & that's it.  If an adjustment is needed in the fence position, tap it a little & tighten it down fast. 
  If you do not have a drill press, the gadget will help you do this, but it is not the best choice if you do own a drill press.
  Without a drill press you will eventually need to have a lot of gadgets to accomplish things,  & a cabinet to hold them all, it'll probably be larger than the drill press would have been in the first place!  :-[
  A table saw is the same way, but not quite.  A good unisaw & blades is thousands of dollars, & large in a garage.  Not so with a drill press.  I paid 300.00 for mine, a floor stand model.  The "boring jigs" will add up to a fortune though.  Either way you still need the same drill bits & a heavy duty hand held power drill.  Large boring bits kill these hand held drills as well, you'll never kill a drill press.
  A drill press is small in footprint as well & infinitely more useful.  It is designed to work in countless operations, with just a bit change.  Just my thoughts.
 
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