One Long Rail or Will Two Work?

[ccarrolladams]

Julie and Everyone,

Before you make assumptions about manufacturing guide rails, have you ever done so?

Have you ever manufactured plywood? When doing so the machine is making a long strand 4 or 5 feet wide, which is moving. The cut-off saw has to move with the strand, so there is always the possibility the short ends will not be at exact right angles to the long side. When we make our living using plywood we deal with this.

When you are making product from extruded metal, it comes out of the extruder machine continuously. Like making plywood, the cut-off saw must move with the strand. Of course a guide rail is less than 8" wide, so the difference from a right angle is less, but it will hardly ever be consistently a right angle.

In the case of the guide rails, leave a slight gap. Use a straight edge to ensure alignment. If you have a way to transport a longer rail, if every job site has room to use the longer rail and if you can afford a longer rail, then that is a way to go. But learning to join rails is not difficult, and is vital those times you cannot bring a long rail to the place on site where it is needed, or you cannot effectively transport it.

 

[Paul G]

Julie and Everyone,

Before you make assumptions about manufacturing guide rails, have you ever done so?

Have you ever manufactured plywood? When doing so the machine is making a long strand 4 or 5 feet wide, which is moving. The cut-off saw has to move with the strand, so there is always the possibility the short ends will not be at exact right angles to the long side. When we make our living using plywood we deal with this.

When you are making product from extruded metal, it comes out of the extruder machine continuously. Like making plywood, the cut-off saw must move with the strand. Of course a guide rail is less than 8" wide, so the difference from a right angle is less, but it will hardly ever be consistently a right angle.

In the case of the guide rails, leave a slight gap. Use a straight edge to ensure alignment. If you have a way to transport a longer rail, if every job site has room to use the longer rail and if you can afford a longer rail, then that is a way to go. But learning to join rails is not difficult, and is vital those times you cannot bring a long rail to the place on site where it is needed, or you cannot effectively transport it.

The only assumption I made on this topic was that a $325 precision strip of aluminum from a company that positions its products as top of the line precision tools would be precisely square. In fairness though I haven't seen any guarantees about squareness of the rail ends so I made a bad assumption.  Making it square wouldn't be terribly difficult with the appropriate tools, I'm going to see if my neighbor who has a machine shop can help me with that.

 

[JuliMor]

When you are making product from extruded metal, it comes out of the extruder machine continuously. Like making plywood, the cut-off saw must move with the strand. Of course a guide rail is less than 8" wide, so the difference from a right angle is less, but it will hardly ever be consistently a right angle.

So you're saying with all the computer operated machinery available today they can make the long edge dead-straight but can't make the short edge square to that?  [scratch chin]  I don't buy it.  They CAN make the edge perfectly square, they just choose not to.  For what they charge, everyone should expect perfection.  We shouldn't be making excuses for them and devising go-arounds for their short-comings. 

The more I learn about the guide rails, the less appealing they, and the tools designed for them, appear to me.

 

[Paul G]

When you are making product from extruded metal, it comes out of the extruder machine continuously. Like making plywood, the cut-off saw must move with the strand. Of course a guide rail is less than 8" wide, so the difference from a right angle is less, but it will hardly ever be consistently a right angle.

So you're saying with all the computer operated machinery available today they can make the long edge dead-straight but can't make the short edge square to that?  [scratch chin]  I don't buy it.  They CAN make the edge perfectly square, they just choose not to.  For what they charge, everyone should expect perfection.  We shouldn't be making excuses for them and devising go-arounds for their short-comings. 

The more I learn about the guide rails, the less appealing they, and the tools designed for them, appear to me.

I sympathize with your perspective completely, but the practical side of me looks at the alternatives and concluded even with my disappointments regarding connections I'm getting the best results on the wood. But that won't keep me from suggesting ways to improve upon the products, especially considering these are supposed to be among the best. In the pursuit of excellence scrutiny is a good thing.

 

[peter halle]

I'm not going to step into the rail squareness fray, but I can tell you that I have cut extruded aluminum using a mitersaw.  Come to think about it I have cut Festool aluminum using my TS-55.  I didn't mean to though.  I think that are a few others here who have also.   [eek]

Peter

 

[Oldwood]

Perfect is an absolute what we are dealing with is tolerance. I don,t think using the 7" end to align 2 rails is a very accurate way to accomplish the task even if the end was perfectly square. The proper way to do this is with a strait edge so why bother spending a lot of time & money making the ends to a close tolerance when they are just going to get bashed up from standing them up etc. & should not be used as a reference when lining up rails. I have a 118" ,75" & a 55" rail & join them for strait ripping lumber & on site work. I think that one long rail will always be more accurate then 2 joined but there are situations where joined rails are the answer.

FWIW
Gerry

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Julie, I didn't state that the guide rails aren't square, I said they could be. Have you checked your rail(s)? It seems this discussion is based largely on assumptions.

What I can say is that we sell a lot of guide rail connectors and rarely hear complaints.

I think based on your comments you've made a decision so the discussion of connectors may be a moot point for you.

 

[tiralie]

Perfect is an absolute what we are dealing with is tolerance. I don,t think using the 7" end to align 2 rails is a very accurate way to accomplish the task even if the end was perfectly square. The proper way to do this is with a strait edge so why bother spending a lot of time & money making the ends to a close tolerance when they are just going to get bashed up from standing them up etc. & should not be used as a reference when lining up rails. I have a 118" ,75" & a 55" rail & join them for strait ripping lumber & on site work. I think that one long rail will always be more accurate then 2 joined but there are situations where joined rails are the answer.

FWIW
Gerry

[thumbs up] Completely agree, couldn't have said it better!
Tim

 

[GBCarpentry]

I used to cut ply and mdf by eye with a circular saw then I got introduced to pinning a 25 mm by 350mm by 2440mm piece of mdf to the sheet goods but you had to take into account the base plate to the side of the blade. Trying to keep the saw against the mdf guide took a lot of concentration and you never got the result you wanted, but t least your head wasn't in the dust and noise trying to do it by eye. 45 degree angle cuts using this method was time consuming and hard daunting work. Then I got the festool ts75 with 1 1400 rail. WOW. I soon got another 1400 rail and the two connectors. They took some getting used to, but it worked. I was soon dealing with cutting down sheet material all day long, every day and had found that you have to constantly keep checking that the two rails are still straight. Oh another thing that I noticed was that without a protective bag for the two rails and moving them in and out of the van damaged the ends. So when I ran my ts75 base over the end, or across the middle joining of the two rails. It was stripping the metal off the bottom of the ts75 opposite the plastic wheels that tighten the saw to the rail. I realised that my splinter guard was decreasing rapidly. I have stopped the problem now by getting the guide rail bag. My splinter guard is only 1mm wide. So anyway, I finally decided to get the 2700mm rail because of the use that it gets and haven't looked back. It even fits in the back of my lwb vivaro van and is a really handy long straight edge.

 

[tjbier]

just as wood moves aluminum will move to IMO.
I have a 55 75 and 118 inch rails. I used to join the two smaller together with no problems by using a 78" level to straight edge  the tracks but the 118 inches is so much easier.

 

[sancho57]

Julie,

I used 2 55" guides rails for about 3 years. I had on problems connecting them. I finally went out and got the 118" rail. I noticed no difference in the accuracy of the cut. I just got tired of connecting the rails together. Connecting them, disconnecting them and repeat.

I do find my self on occasion connecting a 55" and a 32" together.

Anyway my 2 cents which is the most inexpensive thing you'll ever get when messing with festool

 

[JoggleStick]

Lately I've been cutting Large Acrylic Sheets (3m x 2m) on site for splahbacks, Wet walls, etc. At $600- odd per sheet, even more for the Metallics, well you don't want to fluff the cut. Fwiw I use the aluminium blade in the TS55 (slow speed) and it does a very nice clean cut...
I've tried transporting the 3m rail with me to site and it is "possible" but certainly not practical. I was constantly in great fear of damaging, twisting, bumping that long rail. It never happened but the fear of damaging that rail on a busy worksite was more stress than I can handle. I just couldn't find anyplace to put that damn rail so I could relax with it being there. Just too many sticky fingers lurking about....
Otoh, I have 2x1400 rails which even joined together are too short to cut the 3m length in one continuous cut. But, and I stress it is a big BUT, for *me*.... I find that the amount of time 'on-site' that I spend carefully setting and checking the rail joint, or even performing two moves of the rails to get a 3m cut is far less time, work and stress than trying to work on site with the longer rails.
Given a choice- I'd take the longer rail every time. But again, the practicalities of the shorter rails, on site, makes them unbeatable.

 

[Kev]

There are NO ISSUES if the suggested procedures are followed. I fail to understand some the negative attitude about the rails.

If it was easy to mate ends together with 100% accuracy every manufacturer would simply make combinations of 500mm and 1000mm straight edges and you'd just snap them together.

Festool make multiple rail lengths for a very good reason. You can also accurately join multiple rails, but you need to comprehend the stresses on the material they're manufactured from ... particularly when you are moving/handling joined rails.

If they were crafted from plate steel they could be engineered to join more accurately at the faces, but you'd then be complaining about how heavy they are!

 

[JuliMor]

I think based on your comments you've made a decision so the discussion of connectors may be a moot point for you.

Shane, I'm just trying to understand what I might be getting into before I drop my hard earned money on it.

If I understand things properly, this is what I could expect if I were to , let's say, rip a few sheets of cabinet grade plywood for a piece of furniture I'm building:

1) Take out the two 55" rails (that I planned on buying) and insert two connectors and join the rails, leaving a gap.
2) Take out a straight edge and use that to line up the two rails
3) Tighten the screws in the connectors from the bottom, then, being careful not to change the alignment, tighten the connector screws on top
4) Double check that the alignment is correct
5) Make my first cut

The next cut will be on another sheet, so when removing the connected rails I have to be very careful or they could be knocked out of alignment.  But, if I want to guarantee that the next cut is dead straight, I should check the alignment again with the straight edge and loosen-tighten the connector screws as necessary before making the next cut.  Then repeat this for all subsequent cuts.

Is this correct?  If not, please advise.

 

[ccarrolladams]

What can I say? For several years after I bought my first TS55 I used one pair of connected rails and one separate rail to accurately break down with glue-ready cuts between 50 and 100 sheets of top-of-the-line cabinet grade plywood.

With a little practice it is no more difficult to move a connected rail from one sheet to another than it is to do the same thing with a long rail. There are tasks we do while woodworking as a professional requiring some instruction, some experimentation and a lot of experience.

The bottom line is if you can transport the long rail then use it. Clearly you can afford it.

However, if long rail transportation is a problem for you, and that means to the work site within a project site, then your only choice is to take the time to become 'at one' with connected rails.

 

[Paul G]

I think based on your comments you've made a decision so the discussion of connectors may be a moot point for you.

Shane, I'm just trying to understand what I might be getting into before I drop my hard earned money on it.

If I understand things properly, this is what I could expect if I were to , let's say, rip a few sheets of cabinet grade plywood for a piece of furniture I'm building:

1) Take out the two 55" rails (that I planned on buying) and insert two connectors and join the rails, leaving a gap.
2) Take out a straight edge and use that to line up the two rails
3) Tighten the screws in the connectors from the bottom, then, being careful not to change the alignment, tighten the connector screws on top
4) Double check that the alignment is correct
5) Make my first cut

The next cut will be on another sheet, so when removing the connected rails I have to be very careful or they could be knocked out of alignment.  But, if I want to guarantee that the next cut is dead straight, I should check the alignment again with the straight edge and loosen-tighten the connector screws as necessary before making the next cut.  Then repeat this for all subsequent cuts.

Is this correct?  If not, please advise.

That pretty much describes how things went for me, I got better at gently moving the joined rails so they didn't tweak but still double checked alignment before each cut.

 

[JoggleStick]

Yes, you've pretty well thought through how you might use the rails- in practice you may do things slightly different, but that's moot...
You're on the right track... (Sry pun intended)...

As a little detail.... I have a 2.4m (8 foot) Stabilla level I have with me always....
What I do is lay the level out, standing up on the sheet to be cut with joined rails...
I assemble the two rails with the connectors loosely fitted but then with the rails standing vertically along the Stabila level. This allows me to tighten both sides of the rail/connectors at the same time; without disturbing the alignment. I then lightly lay the rail onto the sheet and proceed.

The squeemy part is getting the tightness of the small screws in the connectors 'just right'... Firm, but not too tight.

If you check the alignment as you've said and check the screws are still tight...

You'll do just fine...

All the best....

 

[semenza]

If I understand things properly, this is what I could expect if I were to , let's say, rip a few sheets of cabinet grade plywood for a piece of furniture I'm building:

1) Take out the two 55" rails (that I planned on buying) and insert two connectors and join the rails, leaving a gap.
2) Take out a straight edge and use that to line up the two rails
3) Tighten the screws in the connectors from the bottom, then, being careful not to change the alignment, tighten the connector screws on top
4) Double check that the alignment is correct
5) Make my first cut

The next cut will be on another sheet, so when removing the connected rails I have to be very careful or they could be knocked out of alignment.  But, if I want to guarantee that the next cut is dead straight, I should check the alignment again with the straight edge and loosen-tighten the connector screws as necessary before making the next cut.  Then repeat this for all subsequent cuts.

Is this correct?  If not, please advise.

   From my experience I would say that is about right. As to being "very careful" when moving the connected rails, it shouldn't be a problem as long as you don't stand them up on end or bump something especially edge wise. As you said  if you want to be absolutely certain, then check with a straight edge between cuts. In practice  you will find that you will get a feel for when and how often you need to check the straightness.  

Seth

   

 

[greg mann]

I think the degree of difficulty has been overstated. There have been numerous testimonials that is not that hard to get good results with reasonable care. That reflects my experience, FWIW.

Put another way, Julie could also get the results she wants by purchasing a slider with 8' plus of travel, or, with practice she could use a cabinet saw with some big in-feed and out-feed tables, the latter with which she will still get variable results.

 

[panelchat]

from my experience in cabinetmaking, trying out the connectors, then upgrading to the long rail, i'll offer this-

if you are doing a few long cuts here and there for a few projects, the connectors can be made to work fine with a little delicate handling and proper setup,all detailed above.
they are not quite Legos, they annoy some of us, me included, but they certainly do work.
cost effective, super portable, very easy to store, i'm glad to have them as an option for on site work.

if you are on the clock doing dozens of perfect, 8' cuts every week for precise cabinets/casework (and enjoying not having paid $15k+++ for a panel saw!), the long rail is really worth it.
costs more, needs a special place for storage, but makes daily workflow easier.