OT Back Problems

[Fred West]

Lou, best of luck to you. I have had five epidurals, an EMG and a provocative discogram all in the last three months. They want to perform a eight to ten hour surgery starting with two to three 3-4 inch incisions in the front and then turn me over and go in from the back. The surgeons are telling me that it will lessen my nerve pain by 90% but probably not touch my back pain which is far worse than the nerve pain. This is also not counting the same issues in my neck. Basically I have stenosis, bone spurs, arthritis, degenerative disks, two annular tears and many other milder issues. These issues are in my neck from C3 -C7 and in my lower back from L4/5 - L5/S1. Truly best of luck, Fred

 

[Tinker]

Lou, hope you have a speedy recovery, good to hear you're seeing some benefits already.  I'm scheduled for facet injections in a couple of weeks, nothing near what you had to have done.  They haven't mentioned the "s" (surgery) word yet, I hope I'm a ways from that.  I know of 4 others who had various forms of back surgery and everyone of them is very happy they did it and now all have a much improved quality of life. 

Apparently, back surgery has come a very long way from just a few years ago. I put my surgery off for so many years because I was literally terrified by all the negative stories I'd heard over the years. I've heard nothing but very positive things lately though. Hopefully, my situation remains positive too. Thanks for wishing me a speedy recovery, its appreciated.

Lou,
I have been bothered with back problems for over 50 years.  I have had so many people propose surgery, i cannot count.  I feel lucky that 27 or 28 years ago, i found a very good chiropractor who has managed to keep me on my feet, walking andworking nearly every day.  As you, i have been terrified of the prospect of back surgery for all of the years i have had the problem.  As you, i have heard so many of the stories of failure, i have had nothing but reinforcement of the horror.

Your story is like a light at the end of a long, dark tunnell.  i am so happy for you and i wish you all the best in your recovery.  You are an inspiration.  I will not run right out and look for a good surgeon, but you manage to take a big bite out of my own inhibitions.  Please keep us posted.  You are much appreciated
Tinker

PS: You mentioned being held together with staples.  I am sure that by now, you realise that near your spinal chord, they should have used those type staples electricians use for holding wiring to wall framing  :

 

[Lou Miller]

You mean these:

They might just be them, I'm not flexible enough to see them. Actually, they feel like they are about the size of a staple you'd use for stapling papers together. Obviously they are healing quite fast because they already itch like crazy.

Tinker I understand everything you are saying about the chiro and avoiding the surgery all together. My problem was that it just wasn't an option for me any longer. Chiros weren't able to do a thing for me. I went to three of them and they all told me I had no other alternatives as there wasn't anything at all they could do for me. The one wanted me to get VAX D or something like that (I think that's the correct name though) done. That would have taken 4-8 weeks of daily treatment and he really didn't think it would do much anyway. I was scared enough by the surgery that I would have still been willing to try anything else at all, but I really did exhaust all other options. I'm not too embarrassed to admit it, the morning of the surgery, I was terrified. I even considered backing out of it at one point (kept rethinking the VAX D treatments).

The surgeon that did the work on me told me he hasn't seen a single disc as bad as mine in a very long time and said I might have spent the rest of my life as a cripple had I not done the surgery when I did. He compared it to the condition someone would be in after a car accident when they lose the ability to use their lower limbs because of nerve damage. How true any of that is, I have no idea, I can only quote what was said to me. I've forgotten more about construction than I'll ever know about medicine.

The good news is that he said the rest of my back looks like that of a 20 year old. I only have the one disc that's a problem, the rest are in perfect shape. I really think if I can it through my thick Polish skull to get over the moronic He-Man complex I have and stop lifting 2 and 3 times my body weight, I'll be good to go for a very long time. He also moaned and groaned a LOT about the amount of well defined muscle I have in my back from doing heavy work all these years. He said the surgery took a whole lot longer than normal because of it. He said more than anything else, that muscle tone I have (that anyone that does physical work will have really) is going to get me through all of this. I just need to wait for the severed muscles to repair themselves. Its a little hard to figure out how to move my torso right now without the use of my lower back muscles though. Unfortunately, my abs don't have the muscle tone that my back does Not even close...

For what its worth, I still can't get over the improvement. The surgery was less than 72 hours ago. I crawled out of bed about an hour ago this morning and have almost no pain of any kind. Not just from the prior back condition, but there is very little pain from even the surgery itself at this point. Just some slight discomfort at this point if I move the wrong way or too quickly. I actually feel good enough that I might even try going to work for an hour so on Tuesday or Wednesday of this week. Nothing remotely heavy, just some supervisory tasks and slowly build back into my normal rythym. The way I feel right now though, I could probably be laying block by Thursday Okay, that's obviously pushing it, but I do feel great.

 

[Bob Marino]

Lou,

I am late getting into this thread, but wish you a full and speedy recovery - you seem like you are on the way. The right MD's can and do work miracles. Best of luck, but I would error on the safe side and take it easier rather than faster in getting back to work.

Bob

 

[Lou Miller]

I hear ya Bob. I was only joking about laying block. I'll probably start with 2 ton trusses before I do the block work. Its more shoulders involved with them than the back...

No, I only plan on doing supervisor tasks for a while. I'm not going to be a fool and undo any of the positive results I've already gotten. I actually think I'm going to go back to having more employees around now too. I always preferred to do the bulk of the work myself, but the time has probably come to load back up on manpower. I have only have one employee now, but adding maybe up to two more might be a good idea. I had 15 guys years ago and hated that, so I won't ever go to that extreme again. A 3-4 man crew should keep me from getting into trouble again.

Anyone interested???

 

[Michael Kellough]

Glad to hear how successful your surgery was Eli.
It's a great example of getting "a new lease on life".

 

[Lou Miller]

Wow, Eli got his surgery done too.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

[Eli]

Just that little frontal lobe removal that allows me to hang around here.  ;D

Where should I send the resume to Lou?

Actually it might be too much of a commute, the coffee would be cold by the time I brought it to you in the morning.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Wow, Eli got his surgery done too.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

And Eli said...
"Just that little frontal lobe removal that allows me to hang around here."

Oops :-[
Sorry guys guess I could use some brain surgery too.
Multitasking is on the blink today.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Hey Lou,
Congratulations on your speedy recovery!  Sorry its so late, but I haven't followed this thread for a while!

 

[Tinker]

I hear ya Bob. I was only joking about laying block. I'll probably start with 2 ton trusses before I do the block work. Its more shoulders involved with them than the back...

No, I only plan on doing supervisor tasks for a while. I'm not going to be a fool and undo any of the positive results I've already gotten. I actually think I'm going to go back to having more employees around now too. I always preferred to do the bulk of the work myself, but the time has probably come to load back up on manpower. I have only have one employee now, but adding maybe up to two more might be a good idea. I had 15 guys years ago and hated that, so I won't ever go to that extreme again. A 3-4 man crew should keep me from getting into trouble again.

Anyone interested???

Lou, I'm glad you are set up in a way you feel comfortable getting more help.  Even with the successful surgery, I am sure it will be a good idea to cut back on the lifting. When my back got rally bad, i was fortunate that i had a bunch of highschool friends of my teenage son who all wanted to work with us.  My son had been out on jobs with me almost from time he could walk.  By time he was 5, he could run my backhoes.  He learned everything.  how to lay brick, block and stone (I did not let him do any lifting, but he could chink stonework and joint off other unit masonry with the best of them by time he was in jr high.  I had coached several age groups in soccer and watched my son on HS wrestling team.  i had observed a lot of good kids and knew which ones I would like to have work for me long before they even knew there was usch a thing as work.  When David and his best friend wanted after school work, I bought a couple of lawn mowers and sent a letter out to my snow plow customers.  By the end of the first summer, i was already hiring more kids for the new landscaping business that had exploded for me.  within two summers, i was hiring 7 to 9 boys who were eager and wanted to LEARN as well as work.  We had a hxxxx of a lot of fun together and i was able to phase out of the masonry biz completely.  now, at nearly 77 (I'm really only 39, I would have been 41 but i was sick for two years), the heaviest lifting i do is a few 40 and 50 # bags of fertilizer and grass seed.  It is surprising how much easier it is when one compares lifting those items to the repetitious lifting all day long of 40# to 85# concrete blocks, 200# stones, dragging tons of concrete around to make a level floor.  I may even be able to keep working til i am 40

;D

I can just see you cutting back from lifting 2 ton trusses to letting two guys handle one end while you only lift the other.  It will really be sooooo much easier for you.  you will actually enjoy your coffee, even if Eli dawdles along the way and gets it to you cold.  When the coffee is cold, you will be able to hold it in one hand as you use the other to hold the trusses one end, instead of having to flipp from hand to hand until it cools.  That will be one advantage with having a slowpoke like Eli to deliver. 8)

Keep the faith.  I'm rootin' for you, my friend.
Tinker

 

[sw1211]

Received my facet injections yesterday, they said it usually takes 2-3 days to take effect, keeping my fingers crossed.

A couple of side effects, in case anyone ever gets these, I only got 2 hours sleep last night, must be due to the streroid and I had the hic cups for 4 hours this morning.  Not painful but annoying.  :-\

Not sure if they're related but I also woke up to a pipe leaking in the basement this morning, about the last thing I feel like dealing with.  Luckily I caught it fairly early and doesn't appear to have made it to the carpet.  The outlaws are here, "We heard a noise but didn't think anything of it."  It was dripping right onto on of the main heating ducts making a very loud and repeatable  noise.  ???

 

[Lou Miller]

You got the hiccups from the injections? Or did you get them from a steroid you were taking orally?

I had a whole bunch of injections over the years, but never had any side effects. After I got my surgery though, they gave me steroids for the first 5 days. I did nothing but hiccup constantly the whole time. It was the most annoying thing I think I've ever dealt with. Once I stopped taking the steroids, the hiccups went away. Almost immediately.

Sometimes after an injection, I'd actually feel worse the next day or so. Be patient, and I'm sure you'll at least see some relief.

 

[Brice Burrell]

So Lou, how is the back doing?

 

[Lou Miller]

So Lou, how is the back doing?

Haven't you noticed that I've been less annoying around here this past week? I went back to work this week, so I didn't ramble on with posts. The back is still a little sore, but its only about 1/10th of the pain I was dealing with before I had surgery and its a different kind of pain. Overall, I'm doing extremely well. The Docs are mad at me because I went back to work, but what are ya going do? The mortgage company doesn't care that I had surgery... I'm 100% capable of doing anything I want, but I'm still restricting my activity. Especially lifting.

Thanks for asking...

 

[Eli]

I miss the old Cranky Lou already.  ;D

Glad you're feeling better

 

[sw1211]

Great to hear you're doing better Lou.  I'm not taking an oral steroid.  They injected steroids into the facets and I'm assuming they're the cause of the hic-cups. I don't normally get hic-cups, so it would have to either be from that or the mild anesthesia they gave me.  I tried doing the 1st injection without any anesthesia, once they shoved the needle in the joint, I quickly asked for some drugs.  I'm just hoping to double my sleep tonight and maybe rack up 4 hrs.  I'll be testing the back out a bit in the shop this week.  Need to get my now "outdated" 1080 set up  and test drive the Domino. 

 

[Tinker]

sw1211, Lou and others who have been contributing to this thread, for those of us with real back problems, this has been of great interrest.  Others, who are fortunate in never having gone thru the pain and agony of such debillitating pain are probably quite bored by now.  What is most interresting to me is the different approaches that have been taken by different individuals.  And even more interresting has been the apparent success along the way.

sw1211 has taken a route i had not heard of.  I am hoping you can continue in a direction of recovery>>> without the hiccups. 

Lou, your cause for pain is more closely related to the causes of my own pains; and so I am more interrested in your own direction.  As you have told us about your own apprehentions, I too have been terrified of going under the knife.  I have 5 discs that are involved so my spinal cord looks like BX cable.  I do not have the nerve to take the step you have taken.  It is my own fear that one of these times when i find it impossible to even stand up. I have been reduced to dragging myself around the house on by right elbow, impossible to do it with my left arm because of increased pain to that side, and have told the orthopedic surgeon i understand the possibilty of someday not walking again.  I feel I am very fortunate in finding a very good chiropractor who has helped me.  I have also run into some chiropractors who seemed to agrevate the problem. 

My sister-in-law has just gone thru two operations on her back for different reasons.  She had to have ligaments restored.  That, to me, seems even scarier than the disc surgery. 

I don't know as I will ever consider surgery or even medication such as sw1211, but it is wonderful to know that guys like you and Lou, who are doing much the same lifting as I, are finding an apparent relief thru methods some of the rest of us have not persued.

And Lou, I just hope success does not mellow you completely.  Every group does need atleast one crank in the crowd.  : 

Tinker

 

[sw1211]

Every group does need atleast one crank in the crowd.   

I can see why anyone with the back issues Lou has/had would be cranky.  ;D  My back issues which don't even compare, have put me in a foul mood all year, just ask the wife/kids. 1st year in 15+ that I haven't touched my golf clubs all summer.  I give you a lot of credit Tinker for being able to carry on at all based on the descriptions you've provided of your situation.  Good health to all next year!!!

 

[Tinker]

Every group does need atleast one crank in the crowd.   

I can see why anyone with the back issues Lou has/had would be cranky.  ;D  My back issues which don't even compare, have put me in a foul mood all year, just ask the wife/kids. 1st year in 15+ that I haven't touched my golf clubs all summer.  I give you a lot of credit Tinker for being able to carry on at all based on the descriptions you've provided of your situation.  Good health to all next year!!!

For me, it probably all started at age 2 when i fell off of a playground slide and landed on my head. (that explains a lot of things, some of which we don't care to mention )  Later, at age 9, i was moved to a relatives farm, where by age 10, i was helping in the fields and in the cowbarn.  By 12, I was helping move 100# bags of feed.  i probably weighed considerably less than 100 at the time, being one of smallest in my age group nearly forever.  When my present chiropractor first looked at my exrays some 27 or 28 years ago, the very first question he asked my was, "Did you grow up on a farm?"  He tells me those days, as I described them to him, were probably a very major factor in the developement of my back problems.  Too much heavy lifting too early too many times.

Along the way, at age 5 or 6, I received a very serious burn on my right leg stretching, at the time, from nearly my ankle to almost my crotch.  not quite high enough for me to end up talking funny, but it was a bit uncomfortable at the time .  since that burn extended across my knee and shin bone during a growth period, that leg has been shorter and also a contributing factor.  just a whole lot of things that went into developing a serious back problem later on.  Also, tore up the right knee while on vacation with my Uncle Sam in far off Korea.

When i finally went to an orthopedic sugeon recently, he told me the reason I have any degree of comfort is that all of the factors of contribution have ocurred of many years.  The damage has been gradual.  a lot of comfort to know this during those short periods when i am in total agony.

When my own son was growing up, he always wanted to be with me, whether operating heavy equipment or helping me at masonry projects.  Until he was nearly thru HS, I NEVER allowed him to lift heavy stones or heavy concrete blocks.  i only allowed him to do very light tasks.  I think the fact that he has acquired a fleet of equipment that would be capable of picking up and tossing any of the "toys' he learned on/with is relative to his frustrations with his old man over such restrictions  :

I have never bourne any blame to those who allowed me to do all of that lifting when i was young.  I loved the work, and they would have had to tie me down.  i loved the people who gave me the oportunities to have a good time while working very hard.  In those days, farm kids did those things.  I was relly one of the fortunate kids in my group of farm kids, I did not QUIT school to work on the family farm.  I have always felt it was those, big strong kids, who did quit to have been the most seriously injured of all.

Hey, everybody, Merry Christmas
Tinker