OT - Pieces of paper you can't find when you need to ...

SteveD

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Jan 24, 2007
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OT I know. Following a life threatening  (.. or else!) condition I have begun a massive cleanup. A spring clean with a difference. I have started to scan all the pieces of paper, notes, letters, statements into the computer and (gasp) organize them. I bought an all-in-one scanner, printer and copier and I am testing for 30 days what seems to be a very impressive multi-user document management program.
Apart from the regular household and financial items I have numerous sketches of projects, todo lists that are not yet done, relevant sheet instructions for assembling things the right way, guarantees, and PDF manuals. This is not an ad for the unmentioned piece of software - just some curiosity BEFORE I get a case of the "Duh, I should have done it that way".

Does anybody successfully manage the workshop 'technical' - as in not busine$$ - paper side of things using a document management system rather than heaps of dusty paper, file folders, etc?

Does anybody successfully use a small (5 users or less) document management system that costs less than US$1000? If so what is the software.

(Successful = It installed it without a problem, it works well, even I can use it, I can find everything I need in a few seconds and it makes things easier to do right the first time)

If the answer to either of the questions is yes, how do you have a strategy to organize your files for the most efficient retrieval and grouping? By client, by job, by project, by date, etc. (Yes I know it doesn't really matter if all the files are indexed properly).
Also, do you have a strategy to mark items for deletion? e.g. the ABC PDF Tool catalog from 2007 is marked for deletion in December 2009?

Scanning ....
Indexing ....

SteveD

 
Steve,

While I like your efforts you are attempting to tackle a challenging task.  I have worked for many years in the management of technical documentation for industry. 

I can suggest that you take a file folder based approach and try to organize that way in your case.  This is the simple approach that most computer users and email users take. The hardest thing in developing these systems is to determine what to call a document and how to catagorize it so that it can be recalled and retrieved easily later.  What you may call a "letter" I might call a "memo"It is easy to get stuff into a system but often not so easy to get it back out quickly and accurately.  There is also the issue of how to handle changes and revisions but that is not as likely in your situation as it is in industry.

I would suggest you look at the Adobe tools as relatively powerful low cost solutions that have become in many respects defacto standards, such as .pdf format files which can be shared, viewed and searched easily.  It is a risk that you can use a format that changes or disappears over time and renders your information unreadable or unviewable.

Also keep in mind that a well defined and managed manual file system can be a very cost and effort effective document management system....think of your doctor's office files and how expensive it would be to computerize all that data and information.  Also as you get into this you will realize that the Dewy Decimal system for libraries is a truly awesome system....and has worked well for a long long time.

Best,
Todd
 
I might also add to Notorious' file folder suggestion that you consider installing Google's Desktop S/w.  It will keep track of all documents, or even a subset, on your computer.  Then you can "Google" your machine to locate anything related to, say...  Jerry Work, or Domino, or whatever else you can think of.

As for scanning...  For financial, and some keep-forever documents, I use Neat Receipts.  It's reasonably priced, can scan just about everything and will even organize your purchases based on the receipts scanned.  It works quite well.  I do not have the latest version with the new desktop human-interface software but I was told it's been improved.  As someone that designs software, and quite well I might add, ;), I am truly amazed at the effectiveness of the scanning, digitizing and recognition capabilities of the old version.  However, I considered the human-interface, i.e. GUI..., to be pathetic and reminded me of what a, PFCSK fresh out of school may write...  (Pimply Faced Computer Science Kiddie).  (let the torrent of protesting emails begin :D ).

One caution though...

What most people do not realize is that an "image" of a document is not the same as a "document".  An image takes considerably much more space to store than a document.  Storing a full page, single spaced "text" document may take between 15 and 20k, an image of that same document could take a megabyte or more.

JMTC
 
A friend of mine uses a Fujitsu scan snap with an apple computer.  From what I have seen it is pretty seamless.  I don't know about a windows version, however, since it saves the documents as pdfs using adobe acrobat, I am sure there is a windows version.  Once in pdf form, the documents can be indexed and tagged for retrieval. 

gary
 
Steve,

I was in the same boat a few years back. Everything that I have is now electronic. Most of the hings are in pdf format. I use Microsoft OneNote for organization, storage, etc of documents.

All of my tool manuals, ideas, projects, web clippings, forum discussions, sketchup drawings, etc. are in one place and everything is searchable. There is even an attempt at optical character recognition so that text embedded in pictures show up in searches.

Here are a few screen shots of my OneNote pages

[attachthumb=1]      [attachthumb=2]        [attachthumb=3]

The only thing is that OneNote is not free. You can download a trial from Microsoft's site. OneNote is one of my most used software items.

Hope that helps,

Rey
 
GreenGA said:
As for scanning...  For financial, and some keep-forever documents, I use Neat Receipts.  It's reasonably priced, can scan just about everything and will even organize your purchases based on the receipts scanned.  It works quite well.  I do not have the latest version with the new desktop human-interface software but I was told it's been improved. 

I've been using Neat Receipts for a couple of years (now the latest version), and it has been the closest thing to being organized that I've ever had. A small scanner sits on my desk in front of my keyboard, I run receipts through it and it will find and store all the pertinent data (total, date, payment method, etc.) and if there is a company name it will automatically place the expenditure in the proper category.  Once scanned, the receipts go into the shredder because Neat Receipts will print an exact copy any time I need it.

As for other documents, I think I've tried just about everything over the years, including scanning into PDFs and setting up a digital document catalog. Several of my systems worked well enough, but the maintenance and upkeep always got to be more than I cared to keep up with. Alas, every system was eventually abandoned and I went back to the file cabinet.

 
Thanks Todd,
(and the flood of others who responded whilst I was composing this)
I have an organizational system I am developing. I have worked on/with it for a solid couple of days, gone back and fixed a few things and rearranged a bunch of folders. The software I am using does the scanning to PDF and I use Acrobat Pro regularly. Rather than buying the software module that does OCR (optical character recognition) I am experimenting with scanning pages I want to 'read' to Acrobat Pro first and then importing it into the system.
I am also dealing, as most of us do, with a wide variety of stuff and there are three of us. My wife has a small business that generates lots of paper, forms, correspondence and reports. These come in or go out on paper, email as well as being composed and filed somewhere on the computer. Then my student daughter has filing cabinets drawers full of reports, projects, essays most of which are somewhere in her computer. Let me rephrase that. She would fill the drawers if she would take the heaps on her bedroom floor...
Then there are the family finances, bank statements, etc.
And then all the handwritten notes, the drawings,the cutting lists, the notes on the paint used for a job and so on. When I get a tool I try and get the PDF version of the manuals. As we know most of the files have such people-friendly names such as xp123_v7_sep06.pdf. These pdfs are being renamed and are going in too.

I plan on putting all these - and more - into the system and chucking MOST of the original paper.
On the current sampling I estimate I can just dump about 20% of the pieces of paper and files right away as they are no longer needed or relevant. That's just a spring clean. Of what is left I can scan and hold about 70% to 80% for about 6 months and then dump the paper. If I am sensible I can put expiry dates on some files - but unless they are really big (in computer file size) it may not be worth it.  5% is not appropriate for scanning. The other 15% to be scanned is medium term (2 years) and long term (life), things like certificates and perpetual documents.  The choice is moldy disintegrating  40 year old letters from my mother tied up with ribbon or letters I can read and smile over as the mood takes me. (Nostalgia isn't what it used to be!)
I also discovered that my need for paper is dropping. We have 4 printers in the house and not so long ago considered buying paper by the case lot. I replaced an old laser printer with one that duplexes (prints both sides). It cost very little more and cut down paper usage by about 25%. Then we got more into doing things online and printing to PDF. I've not yet tried it but a friend with the same printer now has blank paper in one tray and "used-on-one-side" paper in the other. For drafts or stuff that is not going out of the door they reuse the blank sides. Sometimes I bring home paper from the office we can reuse. Times are changing and I am working on adapting appropriately.

The bank allows me to download a pdf which I plan on putting straight into the system. I have not yet imported the Festool catalog - but is next but two on my list. I'd like to see if I can look up the sanding disks I need using the search function. What I am saying here is my incoming (paper) mail is dropping significantly and emailed bills and correspondence are going up. And have you noticed the bill that used to be a single sheet on paper is now three pages long as a pdf?

I had looked around for a while for a solution we could afford. It had to be multi-user as there are times when we are all working at the same time. It had to be economic. I am not paying thousands to save hundreds. It had to be easy/relevant for all of us to use. As some important things are handwritten I needed to have a system that could still handle things 'elegantly'. If I want to I can type up my mothers letters so I can search for the name of a long lost relative. I can also scan in the receipt from the paint company showing the mix I used for the basement walls in 2004.
  Last month I ordered 30 replacement windows and storm shutters. I sent (emailed) the company an annotated PDF with pictures of each wall of the house and the specs for each window. It is filed in the system along with their quote and a scan of the contract. All I need for the moment is the paper contract.

I have not had time to beat up the systems indexing fully, but I know I don't have to dig through thousands of emails looking for the attachment when I need it. (between the three of us we can average 50 emails or more a day.

My memory is not what it was and as I do work around the house these heaps of pieces of important paper get moved, damaged and as I can't remember where ... they become lost. Sorry, they are not lost. It's me who does not know their location.
So coming back to it. I THINK I have found a solution to my challenges at a reasonable cost. I KNOW I will need to change my ways at some point and for various reason the time is now. I am UNCERTAIN as to the best way of approaching some of the "workshop" aspects as these items/documents include things like plans, cutting lists, paint orders, tool warranties, service items, handwritten notes, contracts, manuals, catalogs, etc. etc. And yes, like any other system it will only work if it is kept up. (That's the hard part!)

Captain Kirk boldly went, but he wasn't paying the bills or feeding each piece of paper into the scanner/shredder. I know others have traveled there before me.  The question is if they are on this board and if they can contribute.

Update to responses ...
I can find single user solutions and am starting to use OneNote for other things (but this and some other software packages are not multi-user solutions, which is what we need). I am using a spare PC with Windows XP acting as a server. It is running multi-user versions of both this document management software and Quickbooks Pro. I also run Quicken (which has some capabilities in this area and where some of this started) and the MS Office Suite. Thanks for the suggestions though.
The software I am trying out is impressing me (my day job is in IT). I have to deal every day with software that I am sure the salespeople never used themselves for "real". I also get to advise people on setting things up to be able to work more efficiently and effectively in our normal business environment. The workshop scenario for document management is 'outside' my norm and I am not afraid to ask for advice myself. Measure twice, get someone else to check it, cut once.

SteveD
 
Hi Steve,

I am IT as well. So, with the multi-user issue, won't you have that with any solution other than a true RDBMS? Almost all apps use some sort of file locking during edits/saves.

I have gotten around the issue by using the MS Power Toy called SyncToy 2.0. The SynchToy is very robust and allows for very good file synchronization...and it is free from Microsoft.

OneNote basically uses a series of files for each of the notes sections. I use SynchToy to synch up all my workshop related notes from my laptop to the computer that I have in the garage and vice-versa. That gets me around the file locking issue.

In addition to that I use SynchToy to synch up the portions of OneNote for work between my laptop and my work PC. SychToy even synchs up the file attachments that I have on certain notes. And, those attachments are included in any OCR search without any additional action.

With SynchToy + OneNote, you'd get the file synchronization between users and machines, native OCR, native filing customization, attachments, indexing of everything while pulling everything into a common location for backup capabilities and peace-of-mind. Not to mention al the other capabilities, like integration with MS Office, html, etc.

 
Real interesting topic. I'm not in the league of your computer skills but would be very interested in a reasonable solution for a single user system.

Rey what type of scanner are you using? When I tried organizing by scanning, it took me way too long to scan and then file. Finally gave up.

The scanner for Neat Receipts looks faster than a drop lid scanner. Is NR used only for receipts?
 
I once went the route of going paperless at home.  As a contractor I have tons of receipts.  Tax time - the shoebox method turned out to be a mess for me.  Oh well - it may work out better for others.  The software that we used was PaperPort.  It could also save to PDF.

For my other company we use Adobe Acrobat.  We have to keep detailed records for each homeowners address.  Adobe has the capability of making scans searchable and also has the ability to append your scan to the end of an existing file.  You can then go in and set a bookmark for the new information.

The link to the Fijitsu scanner was very interesting.  Even comes with Adobe Arobat.  Very fast and based on the ratings will take paper in all sizes and do front and back at the same time.  It may not have green on it, but it may be making its way into my arsenal.

One thing to remember about storing stuff electronically.  You need to back up.  It's happened to me it can happen to you.  I had to rebuild using that paper that everyone wants to get rid of. 

Peter

 
I wouldn't worry if something is multi-user capable.  You will only need a 'multi-user' system if many people are going to be editing content simultaneously. 
Realistically you would never have to edit any of the scanned documents.
Google Desktop is able to index pdf files after they have been scanned (they are searchable).
A full document management system is really only good if multiple people are going to be editing new content and you need to retain version control.

gary
 
Rey, that is a very interesting solution to a single user - multi-computer problem. I had not thought about doing it that way. It does leave 3 copies around (not a bad thing!) and as things only change when you add something. The solution I have is a database, it has good security if I need it. I can hide things from other users if I need to, but for the most part I need to have the same information available to other users at the same time. They aren't interested in the workshop stuff so my secret investments will be filed under 'Festool'! :D

I invested in a networked HP sheet fed and flatbed scanner (it also prints and faxes). It does not do duplexing (both sides of a sheet) and it only does A4/Letter size flat scans. It will do legal sheet feed though. At one point I thought I should have bought a better unit, one that does legal and duplex. Then I stood away and thought about it carefully. It is only recently that people have been sending me things printed double sided and most of them are now available for download (bank statements, etc). Scratch the real need for duplex. If it was a large double sided document I can do a scan to email at the office. And again I don't have many things that are legal size and can get around the problem for the remainder. However if I was doing printed plans that used up to ledger size (11" x 17") I would suggest a good scanner that will take that size. On the reverse view when you have lots of credit card receipts and small roller register receipts for everything from a packet of nails to a flat of plywood I can see a big scanner being a pain. A small scanner designed for them is easier - and therefore more likely to be used. I'm networked as I have 3 users (my daughter has a USB dedicated duplex scanner).

As with most things there is a learning curve. I am just beginning to climb it. I had to master the scanner. It is not 100% reliable in determining what part of the page is important when sheet feeding. I started downloading the Festool PDF catalogue at 18:38. By 18:42 I had downloaded the file, imported it into the system and done a search for "Oltzscher" on a second PC. The only document amongst several hundred that came up was ...
The Festool Catalogue.

Peter has a very good point - whatever the solution is a backup is essential. I work in Insurance and got talking to a client. His accountant made him take computer backups on a weekly basis and deliver them to the accountant's office. After a fire destroyed all the clients paperwork and computers he was able to get his bills out on time by buying a new computer (80% of the original prices and considerably 'better') and restoring the software and data (remember to back up the programs and license keys folks!!!). As he had charged things he was able to get copies of all the outstanding significant items. Apparently the new office, apart from having a brand new sprinkler system, now has one  filing cabinet. The bottom drawer keeps the drinks. The next drawer keeps his blank and recirculating backup tapes.
Coming back to the topic. If one had the scanner and software solution to capture the workshop 'paper', what would be a good way to organize the computer files for the workshop?

SteveD

 
Les Spencer said:
Rey what type of scanner are you using? When I tried organizing by scanning, it took me way too long to scan and then file. Finally gave up.

Les,

I was using an HP All-In-One printer. The printer allowed for multiple sheets to be put in the tray for scanning. Once scanned, the pages were saved as pdf and stored on the computer.

My printer finally went though and I am on the lookout on Craigs list for another. Else, I will be off to Best Buy or Amazon.

Once I started to enjoy the instant access of the pdf (electronic verson), it would be so inconvenient to go back to hard copy of things.
 
SteveD said:
They aren't interested in the workshop stuff so my secret investments will be filed under 'Festool'! :D

Coming back to the topic. If one had the scanner and software solution to capture the workshop 'paper', what would be a good way to organize the computer files for the workshop?

Steve,

Do you mean something like this? I have all of my tools manuals at easy access for quick reference.

[attachthumb=#]
 
Rey,

Thanks for info unfortunately I have a HP all in one 2610 that doesn't have a sheet feeder option.

When you scanned your tools manuals, were they such that you had to cut the pages and then feed them in order or could you scan one side, assuming no duplex option, then scan the other and the software would order the pages or did you have to sort the pages to get the order correct? Man that was a long sentence.  :-[

Steve,

Sorry for jumping into your thread.

 
Not a problem Rey,
I have a feeling that this "off from my topic" situation is something most of us will be addressing before long. Each of us will find a solution of some kind from the shoe box to a veneered inlaid filing cabinet to a brand new laptop. However knowing what the options are and how they work in the real world means people can make better decisions. I have basically decided to go with my relatively inexpensive small business, multi-user solution. But in the space of a day I have been pointed to some things like the  Neat Receipts scanner and had food for thought. My software trial period is 30 days and I have not shredded anything important yet! Incidentally my software solution for 3 people but without a scanner appears to be less than the one user 'Neat Desk' solution - which includes a scanner. They are different - but no different than a small table saw vs a Festool 'semi-stationary' system.
I don't run a jobbing or construction business and I don't have the same tax requirements as many others. (I do have other bureaucratic challenges though).
The software I am trying out is Docsvault small business edition. (Don't try the home edition it doesn't work on newer operating systems). I did try the single user Pro edition and liked it enough to try the multi-user version.

SteveD
 
Steve D and others,

I'm new here and realize that this is an old post, however, the following link might add to what has already been discussed. Be advised that it runs a small video.

http://www.thepapertiger.com/what_is_paper_tiger.php

I, myself, have also been looking for a viable solution to organize my "files". While the program in the link, as I understand it, doesn't help with regard to scanning or creating PDF documents, it does help with being able to find them in the future. I suspect, that someone with a good understanding of MS Excel or perhaps MS Access, could create something similar on their own. It's the way that you can search for keywords that you've associated with the documents in the file that make this product seem interesting.

I did look briefly at DocsVault (Home version), but never got going with it. The other products mentioned, such as the Neat Receipts or Neat Desk look interesting as well, but I'd rather not spend the money or add more hardware, as I already have a flatbed scanner.

So, for what it's worth, you might want to take a look. All of the typical disclaimers apply. I have no interest in the company or the product, but am just trying to find an easy to maintain solution like others here. Hope this helps.

Peter B
 
Old thread, but I learned a lot from it - also about to spend enough to buy the Domino I've been lusting after.

One of the things that stresses my wife and I out is the absolute sea of papers and receipts we just can't bring ourselves to get rid of.  Now, maybe, we will.

Thanks either to the information in this thread or links thereafter, I'm probably going to buy the NeatWorks software, a Fujitsu ScanSnap 5100M scanner, and have already bought DevonOffice Pro, DevonAgent, and DevonNotes.

I'm not kidding when I say I am hoping that this combination of software and hardware may help our marriage and sanity !
 
I know this old thread was for all types of documents, but for receipts and printed bills, my system is trivial: I have a deep drawer with a stiff bag in it for daily receipts; I drop them in there.  When the bag is full, I label the date, and put it in the garage.  A year (or more) later, I shred it.  I don't often need an old receipt and I'd rather toss them in the bag and, in the off chance I need one, spend time digging when necessary.  Usually they form strata layers and it is easy to get close to it and find what you want.

For bills, they go in a divided drawer.  Once full, they all go in a shoe box, labeled by date, and into the garage.  Again, a year or more later, all shredded.  I have yet to need to go back further than a year, ever.  If I suspected I'd need to, I could easily change the shred date to 2 years (or whatever) later.

All other documents get downloaded electronically like the Festool catalog, all the manuals, good FWW articles, occasional nice calendar :)
 
I'd suggest the OP consider an application like Expression Media.  It was acquired by Microsoft, who rather quickly abandoned it, but has now been picked up by Phase One.

I purchased it to manage photographs and video, but it is more than just photo management software, however - it is capable of managing any type of asset  - image, video, PDF, text, etc.  It can't search into them AFAIK, but you can tag them with any number of arbitrary labels, so a file doesn't have to belong to one folder only, and you don't have to deal with a mess of shortcuts/aliases.  You can do filtered searches, you can do unions of criteria (i.e. show me all documents belong to "Festool" and "manuals") quite easily, etc.

I eventually abandoned it when I hit its limit (which is in the tens or hundreds of thousands) of files and came to the realization that Microsoft was going to abandon it, but before Phase One picked it up again.  There may be a free trial program.
 
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