Painted Cabinets questions

[GreenGA]

This is another question to the forum members about a project we're working on...

We've done a number of kitchen cabinet projects.  Up until to now, they were either just the install of preordered cabinets, or we built them out of prefinished plywood for the cabinet interiors with species matching doors and frames finished in a protective coating; think poly or shellac, etc...

The HO's of the project we are working on now have asked us for painted cabinets and we've never done painted kitchen cabinets before.  The HO went to Home Depot prior to calling us and the folks at HD put together a very rough preliminary design from their Futura line which was a two color painted design; the paint coming from Sherwin Williams.

My question is this...

1. Since the cabinets will be painted and none of the wood's characteristics will be visible, is there any real reason to match the door and frame material to the prefinished interiors.  In other words, if the HO decides they like prefinished mahogany interiors, should we use mahogany for the doors and frames, or could a less expensive species be substituted?

2. Should we attempt to paint the frames and doors ourselves (we have HVLP equipment), or should we look for a local jobber that specializes in cabinet painting?

Thank you for any and all comments or suggestions.

 

[semenza]

I can't think of any reason to match the wood with the interior wood if the face will be painted.

Since you have the equipment why not do a small test run on some scrap or left over frame and panel materials. That might help you decide if you want to do the painting. To me though a two color paint scheme sounds like it could be a real time eater, so make sure to factor in for extra time/ dollars.

Seth

 

[tiralie]

the paint coming from Sherwin Williams.

Warn the customer that most paint sold at retail (latex) will not stand up to the punishment a kitchen gets. Dark colors take longer to cure.

1. Since the cabinets will be painted and none of the wood's characteristics will be visible, is there any real reason to match the door and frame material to the prefinished interiors.  In other words, if the HO decides they like prefinished mahogany interiors, should we use mahogany for the doors and frames, or could a less expensive species be substituted?

No. Use either hard maple, or poplar.

2. Should we attempt to paint the frames and doors ourselves (we have HVLP equipment), or should we look for a local jobber that specializes in cabinet painting?

Depends on schedule (the customers) and your ability to deal with failure. If you have done it before, used the coatings before, are set up and have the time ok, but there is steep learning curve when first spraying. Don't do it unless your customer is OK with unexpected delays. There will be some.
Tim

 

[TealaG]

Man...is this the customer who thinks that a large microwave in the backsplash is a good idea?  You super need to manage expectations here!

I'm not willing to say that "Sherwin Williams" is bad.  My epoxy garage floor was Sherwin Williams and it has held up very well, the guy who did it gives a 5 year warranty and says that he never has to do warranty work.  Now that I've had it for 3 years, I understand why.    I had someone use a sprayer to spray professional grade epoxy paint on wood replacement windows and a french door and it was BEAUTIFUL and held up very very well.  But I think "retail, consumer grade" Sherwin Williams may not hold up as well.

If the homeowner truly wants wood insides, I would go for Maple.  My cabinets have melamine insides and I think they're fine.  But someone who truly wants custom cabinets instead of ready to assemble may want to pay for wood or veneered ply.  The funny thing though...if I wanted to design custom cabinetry, I wouldn't go to Home Depot for design advice.  Something to consider...maybe some basic RTA cabinets with fancy two toned doors? 

Personally, if I were you, I'd have someone else spray those suckers.  The homeowner may have high expectations and someone who paints cabinets for a living is more likely to meet those expectations.  Particularly if you're doing wood cabinet bodies...I think those suckers are hard to get painted well without drips or missed areas.  If there's a cost difference, you could spray a sample and then show the customer a sample from the cabinet shop and let them choose.

 

[tjbnwi]

A local Sherwin Williiams should be able to match any paint color in KA+ white. My store is mixing 2 gallons of a stock color in KA+ a client picked. Using the KA + Surfacer makes the prep work pretty easy. If I had to go with paint it would be Pro Classic Acylid.

If there are any cabinets with glass doors, matching the interior color to the exterior color is common. 

My preference is maple for face frames and the door rails and stiles. You can use MDF for the panels.

Tom

 

[chris s]

It almost sounds as if the home owner is not sure of what they want. It might be better to let home depot supply the cabinets and you install them.

 

[tiralie]

If I had to go with paint it would be Pro Classic Acylid.

Agreed any alkyd based paint, like Pro Classic, BM Advance and Farrow and Ball etc. will work well in kitchens as the modified polyester in the resin is very tough.

Tim

 

[tiralie]

It almost sounds as if the home owner is not sure of what they want.

You might be right, but at first I thought the OP was exploring options based on the HO's questions. Fairly common in the "design" phase.
Tim

 

[tjbnwi]

If I had to go with paint it would be Pro Classic Acylid.

Agreed any alkyd based paint, like Pro Classic, BM Advance and Farrow and Ball etc. will work well in kitchens as the modified polyester in the resin is very tough.

Tim

Obviously Tim spells better than I do.  [thumbs up]

You need to be aware of the recoat and dry times of the paints we mentioned, they have very long recoat times. I shot one job on a tight time frame, thought everything was fine, three days latter the film alligator skinned, had to strip the job and reshoot it.

It takes about a month for the film to fully coalesce, the top surface may be cured but the underlying layers take a long time to cure/harden.

Tom

 

[waho6o9]

" Should we attempt to paint the frames and doors ourselves (we have HVLP equipment)"

In a word, No.

"  or should we look for a local jobber that specializes in cabinet painting? "

That's what I would do.

 

[tiralie]

Obviously Tim spells better than I do. 

Tom:
I figured you meant Alkyd, but I had to check that maybe there was a new paint from SW that you were referring to.  [tongue]

 

[tjbnwi]

" Should we attempt to paint the frames and doors ourselves (we have HVLP equipment)"

In a word, No.

"  or should we look for a local jobber that specializes in cabinet painting? "

That's what I would do.

Why?

Tom

 

[waho6o9]

This is why

"The HO's of the project we are working on now have asked us for painted cabinets and we've never done painted kitchen cabinets before."

Know what you do and do what you know. It would probably go smoothly but if there were issues it could be problematic, and why open a can of worms?

 

[tjbnwi]

This is why

"The HO's of the project we are working on now have asked us for painted cabinets and we've never done painted kitchen cabinets before."

Know what you do and do what you know. It would probably go smoothly but if there were issues it could be problematic, and why open a can of worms?

From other posts I know they have some some spraying experience. Whats the worse that can happen, have to strip and re-shoot?

They can always practice on some scraps.

I enjoy learning and doing new things, if I didn't I wouldn't be doing what I do now.

Nothing ventured-nothing gained.

Tom

 

[waho6o9]

Rock on

 

[Rollin22Petes]

As Tim and Tom have both stated maple is a great  choice for painting nice tight grain that takes paint very well. If you are going to do cabinets for a living your going to eventually have to learn to do painted ones might as well start now. 

 

[blauschuh]

I painted my cabinets with Benjamin Moore Impervo alkyd with a brush... couldnt be happier with the results and it's stood up for 3+ years without issue.

 

[GreenGA]

I've been swamped all week and this is a catch up reply...

I can't think of any reason to match the wood with the interior wood if the face will be painted.

Since you have the equipment why not do a small test run on some scrap or left over frame and panel materials. That might help you decide if you want to do the painting. To me though a two color paint scheme sounds like it could be a real time eater, so make sure to factor in for extra time/ dollars.

Excellent advice, though we're looking into a place we found that does cabinet finishing for some large volume shops in the area.  One of my guys worked at one of those shops and said his prior employer used the finish shop all the time.

Man...is this the customer who thinks that a large microwave in the backsplash is a good idea?  You super need to manage expectations here!

If the homeowner truly wants wood insides, I would go for Maple.  My cabinets have melamine insides and I think they're fine.  But someone who truly wants custom cabinets instead of ready to assemble may want to pay for wood or veneered ply.  The funny thing though...if I wanted to design custom cabinetry, I wouldn't go to Home Depot for design advice.  Something to consider...maybe some basic RTA cabinets with fancy two toned doors? 

Personally, if I were you, I'd have someone else spray those suckers.  The homeowner may have high expectations and someone who paints cabinets for a living is more likely to meet those expectations.  Particularly if you're doing wood cabinet bodies...I think those suckers are hard to get painted well without drips or missed areas.  If there's a cost difference, you could spray a sample and then show the customer a sample from the cabinet shop and let them choose.

Yes, it's that same customer.  And while I do agree we need to manage the customer a bit more, they do know what they want.

The customer visited HD for some design ideas.  They had images of the finished kitchen and HD was able to take some of those images and create something on paper.  HD did the preliminary "design work" for free, where we would have charged for the time.  While I do not always agree with using others' time, there is no love lost between me and HD, so the HO getting some "free" design work saved some more of the budget for the kitchen.

Spraying... See above (we're looking seriously at a local finish jobber.

A local Sherwin Williiams should be able to match any paint color in KA+ white. My store is mixing 2 gallons of a stock color in KA+ a client picked. Using the KA + Surfacer makes the prep work pretty easy. If I had to go with paint it would be Pro Classic Acylid.

If there are any cabinets with glass doors, matching the interior color to the exterior color is common. 

My preference is maple for face frames and the door rails and stiles. You can use MDF for the panels.

Tom

JR & I stopped by the local SW retail outlet.  Seems one of the colors can be had in their premium line, the darker color, no.  So JR grabbed some paint chips which she will take to our local Benjamin Moore supplier to see if they can match the color in their premium line. 

It almost sounds as if the home owner is not sure of what they want. It might be better to let home depot supply the cabinets and you install them.

Actually, the HO knows exactly what they want, and some of "what they want", and are willing t pay for, can be impressive.  The problem, for them, is in the past, they had some bad experiences with others in the trades. (big promise, small delivery).  Even if we lose on a project, we still deliver everything we promise, and we charge for those promises.

-----

This is something we have considered, although at this moment, we're investigating subbing it out.  We have another project for this same HO later this year which may also involve painted cabinets; though in a less conspicuous place, so if we use the finish jobber this time, we may do the painting ourselves for the next one.

 

[chris s]

I see and understand what you are saying, well said and a sound Philosophy