Parallel Guide Set Or Small Table Saw?

[Dan Clark]

Hi. I'm trying to decide on my next tool.  I've done well with my Festools for the last five years,but occasionally see the need for repeated short, narrow rips and a few other cuts where my TS55+MFT or Kapex aren't the best choice. 

I'm thinking of getting a Festool Parallel Guide Set or a small table saw like a Bosch 4100 (that's at the top of my tablesaw list).  If I was only cutting sheet goods, the Parallel Guide would probably work fine. But I'm not sure if the Parallel Guide is flexible enough. So a small tablesaw is another option.

What do you think?  Parallel Guide Set? Tablesaw? Other?

Thanks,

Dan.

P.s. a big tablesaw would be nice, but there's no place for it in my garage/shop. Whatever I get has to be small and portable.

 

[Scott in San Diego]

I really like my little DeWALT DW745 and use it almost exclusively for ripping.  A great riving knife and fence are included and the whole unit is a deal at $325.  The $160 DW rolling cart is pretty darn handy, too.  Breaking down sheet goods and wide crosscuts are still reserved for my TS55.

I had a Bosch 4100 and it is a wonderful saw.  However, for me, the size and weight did not make it very portable... even with the gravity rise cart.  The DW is about 45 lbs. off the cart and the Bosch is 60 lbs. or so off the cart.  Sure is amazing how much a 15 to 20 lb. difference can make.

 

[Burchie]

I have the Bosch 4000 (earlier version of the 4100) and it's a fine saw, that's a nice compromise between a cabinet saw and a small portable saw, especially with the wheeled gravity rise stand.  That being said.  I never use it.  I have a Delta 5HP cabinet saw and a Festool arsenal at my disposal.   I use the parallel guides to break down sheet goods and the table saw for smaller rips and dados.  A Bosch 4100 table saw is $570.  The Festool parallel guides are $240.  I have a Dewalt DW745 ($356) that is a great little portable table saw I keep in my truck for on site work.  You could get the parallel guides AND the Dewalt DW745 for $596...only $26 (let me check the math...) yes, $26 more than the 4100 alone.

I see Scott beat me to the POST button...but we are on the same page!

 

[ccarrolladams]

Dan, as you say, your shop does not have enough space for a large table saw. There are several fairly small portable table saws currently on the market. With just a little practice the parallel guide set in combination with a 3000mm rail makes the rip aspect of breaking down sheet goods efficient in a minimum of space. Once the sheet material is precisely ripped with glue-ready edges, then an MFT/3 set speeds up most sheet material cross cutting. Sometimes you will need to cross-cut wider than 24 inches, for which you would use a large accurate square and a 1400mm guide rail.

Of course hardly any woodworking projects only use sheet material. Marvelously effective as are the parallel guides, they are not designed for use with solid lumber. My own experience is that a table saw of some kind is still necessary. You almost certainly will need to rip 2 by and 1 by. With care you can do that and still have glue-ready edges using a small table saw.

Just consider that your Festool CT is a low volume, high-velocity dust extractor, designed for hand-held Festools. Table saws and virtually all other fixed wood shop machines need high volume, low velocity dust collection. Often the compromise is to set up the portable table saw outside on nice days and sweep up afterwards. Sometimes if the table saw is small enough you might find the dust collection using a shop vac good enough, cleaning up after using a Festool cleaning set with 36mm hose and your CT.

I still had a 10" Ridgid portable table saw back in 2006 when I bought my first TS55 and CT22. I also had a noisy Ridgid shop vac. Personally I always found it frustrating trying to run sheet material wider than 24" and longer than 48" through such a small table saw. Lacking the space for a proper cabinet slider table saw, I embraced the TS55 and guide rails. Eventually Festool introduced the parallel guide system. Shortly after that I could justify buying a large factory building in which I do have CNC saws, I also still use TS55 and guide rails for odd angle miters on sheet material. To keep the workers comp insurance agents happy, I did replace my 10" Ridgid table saw with a StopSaw.

My suggestion is to buy the extension set with your parallel guide system. You will want the extensions for narrow rips. They really help keep the system in place.

 

[BUTTER]

I'm a tradesman, and I'm going to chime in on the merits of a small table saw.

I do actually own a set of Festool parallel guides, though I've almost never used them.  Their advantage is if you're doing repeated rips on sheetgoods - i.e. sitebuilt cabinets.  I also use them as a T-square.

Though my blood might be tinged with bright green, I'll posit that tablesaws of any size are generally preferable and more versatile.
You can bring the material to the fence and blade and hit your mark without measurement.
You can rip dadoes, rabbets, and scribes.
And the tool stays in one place.

I owned a Bosch 4000 series for many years, and hated lugging it around, even with that gravity-rise stand.

I own a Dewalt 745 and LOVE IT.  It weighs very liittle and so there's no hesitation to pull it out when needed.
The rack & pinion fence is superior to the Bosch.

Since the table is so compact, you'll want to figure out an outfeed system, whether that's something you concoct yourself or whether you use a Rousseau and leave the engineering to someone else 

 

[bruegf]

Dan,

Personally, I think, I'd opt for a small table saw and then make my own parallel guides using incra or rockler track.  There was a post fairly recently where someone had done this.

I had been planning to replace my Ryobi saw for a while and the Bosch 4100 w/ digital readout was at the top of my list, but ultimately decided to go w/ the Sawstop contractor saw.  Its not small, portable, or lightweight, but its a sweet saw even though it makes my shop feel a whole lot smaller.

Fred

 

[andvari]

I'm a hobbyist.

I have a TS55, a Bosch Table saw and a Makita SCMS saw. I may or may not eventually get the parallel guides depending on what projects I bite off. I used to have a hybrid table saw as well.

I found that trying to cut down sheet goods with the table saw was frightening so I started looking for alternatives which led me to Festool. When I found out about the track saws it became obvious that I didn't need the large table saw, so I got rid of it via Craig's list. This freed up a tremendous amount of space in my garage shop plus allowed me to easily move things around as needed. I think I am safer this way too.

I did find that I needed a small table saw for some cuts - wide cross cuts, tenons etc. so I purchased a Bosch plus an Incra sled. I picked the Bosch simply because the online reviews were better. Which saw is best will depend on your particular needs. I don't go to job sites so the weight was not a factor so long as it is portable. With the Dewalt I think you give up some power.

For me anyway it seems that even if I have the parallel guides there are some things I'd be looking to do on a table saw.

 

[Wonderwino]

Hi Dan, I have both the parallel guides and a stationary 5hp Jet table saw.  I use the parallel guides more than the table saw, but when it is time to rip narrow strips of hardwood, the table saw is much faster and easier than the PG's with the extensions.  You can rip right down to the last 1/2" of width on the table saw, where this is almost impossible with the parallel guides.  I prefer the safety of the Festool saws over an exposed table saw blade, but I always use a pushstick, leaving kickback as the greatest hazard.

Although the parallel guides are a great tool that I would not give up, before them I used two adjustable squares to gauge rips on sheet goods and that worked fine.  The parallel guides are also useful with the LR32 system, as Brice Burrell illustrated.

Most of the other things you can do with a table saw, crosscutting, dadoes & etc. can be accomplished with your Kapex, Routers and rails or Domino.

 

[alex946]

Portable? Ascending weight and size ... and price
1. CMS-MOD-TS 55 or 75 - inconvenient to adjust the angle of the saw, but it's the only negative
2. Precisio 50
3. Precisio 70 oh... price...

hmmm ... and they all NAINA ? Ok DW 745 as the best choice

 

[Jay Knoll]

Dan

I have a SS Contractor Saw in addition to my Festool arsenal.  I made some parallel guides after Eiiji"s post on TF, they work great although I have to do a bit of measuring when I'm setting up the cut.

But the table saw is my go to tool.  I build a great cross cut sled, I've been making a box for LOL Xmas present, can't imagine doing it on the MFT.

Narrow rips using the Gripper Pads are safe and secure.  http://www.amazon.com/Gripper-TM-200-Advanced-System/dp/B000H50BAC

Jay

 

[BobKovacs]

I've got both the parallel guides with extensions, and a Dewalt 745.  The parallel guides come in very handy for breaking down sheet goods, but I find I only reach for them if I need at least four pieces with the same width.  For less than 4 pieces, its just as fast to just mark and cut one piece, mark and cut the next, and so on.  I haven't used the guides for narrow rips- those just seem much easier on the 745, though I've got to put together a stand for it and tighten up the dust collection, which is the biggest downside to the tablesaw, IMO.

 

[festooldude]

[eek]The DeWALT DW745 costs € 767,50 in The Netherlands.. that's $1028,45.. WHY?????

 

[alex946]

[eek]The DeWALT DW745 costs € 767,50 in The Netherlands.. that's $1028,45.. WHY?????

This colonial tax. We D745 costs almost as much. Sorry for the offtop

 

[mastercabman]

Dan,if you are looking for a small table saw,Take a look at the new Bosch.Small like the DW, witch i have (really hate that saw!)
I have the parallel guide,and i think that if you need to rip small pieces,i think the table saw is much quicker.

 

[Vindingo]

Get both...

I just picked up the parallel guide set + extensions and they are very handy.  They suit my needs right now very well, BUT I am working mostly with 3/4 sheet goods.  I am using them in conjunction with a torsion box cutting table which eliminates some of the awkwardness of the set up.  It is a bit of hassle using them with thin stock.  They will be used to rip 1/8" X 3/4" solid edge banding and I am going to have to use scrap strips to shim up the material.  Its a little inconvenient, but should work.   

I think I am still going to pick up a small contractors saw, for occasional ripping, but they always seem so loud, messy and dangerous.   

 

[peter halle]

Dan,

I can't imagine not having at least a portable contractor table saw.  I have the original Dewalt DW744.  It has some irritating qualities but so do I.  It has served me well over the last 9 years and has put up with a bunch of abuse.

If your rips are going to less than the width of the guiderail, then save yourself time and use the table saw.  You and I both know that you can do those cuts without a table saw, but if you put any value on your time then the decision is clear.

I have the parallel guides and they are great for repetition, but I see them as being most useful for sheet goods.  Once again you can make them work to do other cuts but that takes them out of their comfort zone.

Let us know what you decide!

Peter

 

[Dan Clark]

First, many thanks for the awesome feedback.    This is exactly the information that I need!   And I really appreciate the extra tidbits of information about when you use each tool and why.   It's easy to focus on the shiny tidbits that each tool theoretically provides.   But you focused on the real-world usability of each tool.   Excellent stuff!!!

A little bit more about my needs and constraints...   While I'd like ultimate portability, I'm pretty sure that the table saw will be used only in my garage/shop and maybe while working on the house.   I'm not a professional carpenter, so it won't be going to a jobsite.  What's critical is the ability to store it on a shelf or on a folding stand that can be pushed against a wall.   So...  

Either of the Bosch's (4100 or GTS1031), or the DW745 would probably work well.   I like the features of the 745 (like the rack and pinion fence).   Like the new Bosch GTS1031, the DW745 is light, relatively small, and easy to store.  However, since it won't be going to a jobsite, I'm not sure if extremely small size and weight is critical.   I.e., the Bosch 4100 might be small enough.

One factor that swaying me towards the Bosch 4100 is that there is a relatively new one for sale right now on Craigslist.   It's $450, but I might be able to get it for $400.   As a private sale with no tax (that adds $45 in Washington State), it's about 2/3's the cost of a new saw.

Decisions, decisions...

One question for Bosch 4100 and DW745 owners - What are the dimensions when it's folded (Bosch) or closed for storage (745)?    I.e. when it's ready for storage, how big are these beasties?

Thanks,

Dan.

p.s. It looks like a table saw would provide more benefit than the Parallel Guides right now.    So I'll focus on that.

 

[waho6o9]

roughly 26" deep  x  46" tall  for the bosch 4100

 

[Dan Clark]

roughly 26" deep  x  46" tall   for the bosch 4100

Waho,

You'd think that this info would be readily available, but I couldn't find it anywhere.

Thanks,

Dan.

 

[Dan Clark]

I'm a hobbyist.

I have a TS55, a Bosch Table saw and a Makita SCMS saw. I may or may not eventually get the parallel guides depending on what projects I bite off. I used to have a hybrid table saw as well.

I found that trying to cut down sheet goods with the table saw was frightening so I started looking for alternatives which led me to Festool. When I found out about the track saws it became obvious that I didn't need the large table saw, so I got rid of it via Craig's list. This freed up a tremendous amount of space in my garage shop plus allowed me to easily move things around as needed. I think I am safer this way too.

I did find that I needed a small table saw for some cuts - wide cross cuts, tenons etc. so I purchased a Bosch plus an Incra sled. I picked the Bosch simply because the online reviews were better. Which saw is best will depend on your particular needs. I don't go to job sites so the weight was not a factor so long as it is portable. With the Dewalt I think you give up some power.

For me anyway it seems that even if I have the parallel guides there are some things I'd be looking to do on a table saw.

Andvari,

Thanks for the feedback.  Which Incra sled did you buy?

Regards,

Dan.