PDC versus standard impact drivers

[leakyroof]

For anyone that's owned the PDC for a few months, will it replace our standard impact drivers or are the two so different that you need to keep both around.
[blink]

 

[tjbnwi]

The PDC is a hammer/percussion drill, not an impact driver. Two totally different tools and purposes.

Tom

 

[leakyroof]

Thanks Tom, that's what I thought, but didn't know if anyone was driving screws or bolts with their PDC in a pinch like an impact.  [smile]

 

[greg mann]

You certainly can drive screws and bolts if you want. The experience will be different, quieter but possibly slower, and sometimes the impact function minimizes camout.

 

[Wuffles]

This was mentioned just the other day, by me, in this thread.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/big-boy-drill/msg404248/#msg404248

 

[leakyroof]

This was mentioned just the other day, by me, in this thread.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/big-boy-drill/msg404248/#msg404248

  I reread your post, thoughts, and the others in the thread. I think I'm more confused about the PDC drill than when I started.
We've got people saying their impact puttered out on them or couldn't do the job, so they grabbed their PDC and continued driving some fairly long screws with it.  [eek]
But another post said 'I wouldn't drill Concrete with it'  [blink]
  I guess I will have to try one out at my dealer in several types of material and tasks to better understand it.  [embarassed]

 

[jools]

[member=10952]leakyroof[/member]. The PDC is a percussion drill. Yes it will drill concrete or brick in hammer mode but it's not the best ( one of the loudest [eek] it's a screamer) Multiple holes or larger bits require a SDS drill like the BHC. I use the PDC to drive large screws all the time in ordinary drill/driving mode. It's quiet fast and easy to set the torque limiter to drive screws to the correct depth. Festools lack of a true impact driver is due partly to their total lack of use on German sites I am led to believe. I certainly don't miss the noise on site and the more I use it the less my old Makita comes out. I was driving 220mm timber locks today (speed 2, clutch in drill mode, side handle a must) and my colleague was using a Makita impact to do the same. After seeing the PDC drive them I got to drive the rest [big grin]

 

[jools]

Forgot to mention the speed. In gear 4 it spins at 3800rpm which is quick enough to run a souber lock jig. It also helps achieve clean holes with drill bits. In gear1 you can run the drill slowly enough on the trigger to count the rpm which is great for starting tile drills and on metal.
The only thing I don't like is the electronic clutch when spinning larger hole saws. It thinks it knows best and stops the drill even on the highest clutch settings. I tend to put it in drill mode and hang on!

 

[Wuffles]

[member=10952]leakyroof[/member]. The PDC is a percussion drill. Yes it will drill concrete or brick in hammer mode but it's not the best ( one of the loudest [eek] it's a screamer) Multiple holes or larger bits require a SDS drill like the BHC. I use the PDC to drive large screws all the time in ordinary drill/driving mode. It's quiet fast and easy to set the torque limiter to drive screws to the correct depth. Festools lack of a true impact driver is due partly to their total lack of use on German sites I am led to believe. I certainly don't miss the noise on site and the more I use it the less my old Makita comes out. I was driving 220mm timber locks today (speed 2, clutch in drill mode, side handle a must) and my colleague was using a Makita impact to do the same. After seeing the PDC drive them I got to drive the rest [big grin]

All of this^ [member=10952]leakyroof[/member]

I grab an SDS for drilling concrete, because I have one and because the noise made in speed setting 4 on hammer function of the PDC you could shatter glass, crash aeroplanes and interfere with pacemakers, probably. Only did it once.

 

[leakyroof]

[member=10952]leakyroof[/member]. The PDC is a percussion drill. Yes it will drill concrete or brick in hammer mode but it's not the best ( one of the loudest [eek] it's a screamer) Multiple holes or larger bits require a SDS drill like the BHC. I use the PDC to drive large screws all the time in ordinary drill/driving mode. It's quiet fast and easy to set the torque limiter to drive screws to the correct depth. Festools lack of a true impact driver is due partly to their total lack of use on German sites I am led to believe. I certainly don't miss the noise on site and the more I use it the less my old Makita comes out. I was driving 220mm timber locks today (speed 2, clutch in drill mode, side handle a must) and my colleague was using a Makita impact to do the same. After seeing the PDC drive them I got to drive the rest [big grin]

  Very cool info. I had also heard that Impact Drivers are very scarce in German Job sites from others here on FOG, so that makes sense about the product line-up.
I own several Hammer drills, and just bought the BHC a short time ago, so Masonry drilling was not something I was considering the PDC for really, it's the driving part that's got me curious, so now I have to try one out on Saturday.
The upside is that I could get the Basic kit since my BHC was a full unit with charger and batteries, swapping between the two Drills.

 

[cameronreddy]

The PDC is a hammer/percussion drill, not an impact driver. Two totally different tools and purposes.

Tom

What's the difference?

One specific question I have: I see that a high-end impact driver such as the Dewalt 886 has 1,500 inch pounds or 169 newton meters. That seems MUCH more powerful than the PDC 18. If I need to drive monster lag screws or torque the bolts off the wheels of my car, it looks like I might need much more power than the PDC provides. Am I right about this?

What I really want is a drill driver that has the ability to do delicate work AND rip bolts off car wheels.

 

[Wuffles]

I believe it's [member=38144]sae[/member] that normally steps in now with some heavy duty "defining". Could be wrong, could be [member=44099]Cheese[/member]

I wonder which one  [tongue]

I bet it's none of them. I'm always wrong.

 

[Brice Burrell]

[member=10952]leakyroof[/member]  Remember with the basic set you'll have to buy the right angle attachment separately.  The PDC uses a different right angle and depth stop chuck than the smaller Festool drills.  I wouldn't be without the right angle chuck. 

 

[tbellemare]

There are impact "drivers" and hammer drills. Impact drivers and impact wrenches impart the impact tangentially to the rotation and hammer drills impart the impact axially. The concept is completely different. The drivers are for "driving". The hammer drills hammer and drill.

Tom

 

[Brice Burrell]

What's the difference?

One specific question I have: I see that a high-end impact driver such as the Dewalt 886 has 1,500 inch pounds or 169 newton meters. That seems MUCH more powerful than the PDC 18. If I need to drive monster lag screws or torque the bolts off the wheels of my car, it looks like I might need much more power than the PDC provides. Am I right about this?

What I really want is a drill driver that has the ability to do delicate work AND rip bolts off car wheels.

We've talked about the mechanical differences on here many times, so I'll skip going over that again.  If you haven't seen those threads and want to know I'm sure someone will chime in. 

The pros and cons on the impact vs the drill, in this case the PDC have been touch on here already, but I'll add a few more. 

As several people have mentioned an impact makes a real racket where a drill is much quieter.  The big advantage an impact has is its ability to have great torque for driving but you don't feel it in your hands/wrists.  With the PDC, it can, and will take you for a ride if you're unprepared.  The PDC can run drill bits where an impact doesn't do that well.

In a nut shell, PDC, quieter, more versatile.  Impact, little to no torque in the hands/wrists but much louder.

The current gen of cordless drills are getting pretty close the control and enough torque to compare to impacts, but they aren't there just yet.  Besides, a drill that can tear bolts off your car could tear your hands off too... [scared]         

 

[Brice Burrell]

.....One specific question I have: I see that a high-end impact driver such as the Dewalt 886 has 1,500 inch pounds or 169 newton meters. That seems MUCH more powerful than the PDC 18......

I forgot to mention this in my last post, and I posted this yesterday or the day before in another thread.  Festool is very conservative with it's torque ratings on their drills, where other manufacturers tend to be generous. 

 

[Cheese]

One specific question I have: I see that a high-end impact driver such as the Dewalt 886 has 1,500 inch pounds or 169 newton meters. That seems MUCH more powerful than the PDC 18. If I need to drive monster lag screws or torque the bolts off the wheels of my car, it looks like I might need much more power than the PDC provides. Am I right about this?

What I really want is a drill driver that has the ability to do delicate work AND rip bolts off car wheels.

Good luck with that... [big grin]

It'd be nice but any driver/drill doesn't have enough oomph to loosen lug nuts on a car, for that you need an impact wrench, and it has to be a fairly stout one at that. Probably at least a 1/2" or 3/4" drive.

Now [member=20162]Wuffles[/member] for the definition:
Typical automobile lugnuts are tightened to around 85-100 ft/lbs, that's 115-136 N/m. Once tightened, the break-away torque needed to loosen the lugnuts is significantly higher than original torque values. The longer the lugnuts have been on the car and the more heat/cool cycles they have gone through the tighter they become. Throw in water, rust & corrosion and I wouldn't be surprised (just my guess...YMMV) if the break-away torque could be 1.5x -2x the initial setting. The lugnuts are still torqued to the original setting but to "break them loose" the torque values skyrocket. That's the beauty of the impact wrench, it imparts a sudden/quick/continuous impact to the lug nut, and that's what does the trick. 

Sorry...for the bad news [eek]

 

[Wuffles]

One specific question I have: I see that a high-end impact driver such as the Dewalt 886 has 1,500 inch pounds or 169 newton meters. That seems MUCH more powerful than the PDC 18. If I need to drive monster lag screws or torque the bolts off the wheels of my car, it looks like I might need much more power than the PDC provides. Am I right about this?

What I really want is a drill driver that has the ability to do delicate work AND rip bolts off car wheels.

Good luck with that... [big grin]

It'd be nice but any driver/drill doesn't have enough oomph to loosen lug nuts on a car, for that you need an impact wrench, and it has to be a fairly stout one at that. Probably at least a 1/2" or 3/4" drive.

Now [member=20162]Wuffles[/member] for the definition:
Typical automobile lugnuts are tightened to around 85-100 ft/lbs, that's 115-136 N/m. Once tightened, the break-away torque needed to loosen the lugnuts is significantly higher than original torque values. The longer the lugnuts have been on the car and the more heat/cool cycles they have gone through the tighter they become. Throw in water, rust & corrosion and I wouldn't be surprised (just my guess...YMMV) if the break-away torque could be 1.5x -2x the initial setting. The lugnuts are still torqued to the original setting but to "break them loose" the torque values skyrocket. That's the beauty of the impact wrench, it imparts a sudden/quick/continuous impact to the lug nut, and that's what does the trick. 

Sorry...for the bad news [eek]

Yay [member=44099]Cheese[/member]

Soz [member=38144]sae[/member] for dragging you into this.

To the OP of the question in this thread [member=7393]cameronreddy[/member] (long time lurker too (2009), well done), I'm not funning with you, just something (as [member=1146]Brice Burrell[/member] said) that comes up a lot.

I have no frame of reference on a super posh drill other than corded, vowed I'd never buy a Festool drill/driver, now I have two. Both of which make my 18v Bosch impact driver look foolish sometimes.

I am now addicted to @

 

[tjbnwi]

The PDC is a hammer/percussion drill, not an impact driver. Two totally different tools and purposes.

Tom

What's the difference?

One specific question I have: I see that a high-end impact driver such as the Dewalt 886 has 1,500 inch pounds or 169 newton meters. That seems MUCH more powerful than the PDC 18. If I need to drive monster lag screws or torque the bolts off the wheels of my car, it looks like I might need much more power than the PDC provides. Am I right about this?

What I really want is a drill driver that has the ability to do delicate work AND rip bolts off car wheels.

I know Tom answered this but a little simpler---an impact driver the hammer strikes the anvil in direction of rotation/twist, a percussion/hammer drill the hammer strikes the anvil if the forward direction of bit.

The PDC's direction of strike will do you no good for removing lug nuts/bolts. May assist a little with screws into wood as you will be pounding them in as they rotate. That could be a bad thing as you distorted the thread purchase.

For comparions, my 1/2" pneumatic impact is about 900 foot pounds of torque. My spline impact is over 2000 foot pounds.

Tom

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I have used my pdc to to finish driving ledger locks that my brushless makita gave up on.