Planning a custom two head VAC-SYS station

[Kev]

Subject kinda says it all !

I've gone round the block several times thinking about this and whether to go VAC-SYS or some other brand. The problem space I'm dealing with is wanting to work on a surfboard or stand up paddle board and needing to work all the way round the item with it being support by a narrow two head vacuum clamping station.

The ideal setup would incorporate heads that swing through 1800 rather than just 900, but it dawned on me that I really only need 450 off TDC each side to work on the rails effectively. This could be achieved by mounting the VAC-SYS heads at 450 ... which would give me the desired variety of working positions.

For flexibility I'm thinking of mounting the heads via T-Track (to set the heads close or wide and to makes them easy to move) on a hinged plate that can move between 00 and 450 incline (haven't thought too much about locking it in position yet).

I'm not rushing into this as  I want to get it "just right" and also gather as much input as possible.

Any ideals are most welcome please.

 

[nclemmons]

Given the Vac-Sys will stick to a smooth surface it sits on, you might just make a surface and cover it with either laminate or masonite and mount it at 45 degree angle to the bench.  that would let you easily slide the VacSys side to side without having to deal with hinge mechanisms, T-track, etc.  Just create a slick track and slide them where you want and engage the VacSys suction valve to grip the surface.

See the crude drawing I quickly did...

 

[grbmds]

I'm not sure I understand about why you would need the heads to rotate toward and away from you  more than the 90 degrees. With one head, I have yet to find an angle or position that I can't put the VacSys head in that won't work for whatever I've used it for. While you have less flexibility with the piece attached to 2 heads than with only the 1, can't you just release and flip the surf board when working on the opposite side?

 

[Kev]

Given the Vac-Sys will stick to a smooth surface it sits on, you might just make a surface and cover it with either laminate or masonite and mount it at 45 degree angle to the bench.  that would let you easily slide the VacSys side to side without having to deal with hinge mechanisms, T-track, etc.  Just create a slick track and slide them where you want and engage the VacSys suction valve to grip the surface.

See the crude drawing I quickly did...

[member=167]neilc[/member]

That was my earlier thinking. Problem with relying on the base's suction is a power cut .. rare, but I'd be in a compromised position. Creating a 450 top with tracks and having a smooth flat bench under is an option to avoid hinges and moving supports [smile]

 

[grbmds]

Don't know if it makes any difference, but after the pump switch is turned off, the piece remains tight to the head for some time, anywhere from at least 20 seconds on up. There should be time to remove the piece safely at the very least.

 

[Cheese]

I've turned my pump off and have been unable remove a board after 15-20 minutes.

 

[peter halle]

One thing to remember when posting about the performance of the various pumps is that there are two different models - NA and NAINA.  I haven't used the NA model but I have heard that the metal roll cage of the NA model serves as a vacuum reservoir.  Perhaps I heard wrongly.

Peter

 

[Kev]

I'm not sure I understand about why you would need the heads to rotate toward and away from you  more than the 90 degrees. With one head, I have yet to find an angle or position that I can't put the VacSys head in that won't work for whatever I've used it for. While you have less flexibility with the piece attached to 2 heads than with only the 1, can't you just release and flip the surf board when working on the opposite side?

[member=19734]grbmds[/member]

"Flipping the board" won't be an option. Delicate assembly state wouldn't permit it. Same reason I wouldn't attach the heads to an MFT/3 and work on one side at a time. Some of the designed I'm planning would start as a skeletal structure.

The other option is to fabricate something going rotisserie style ...

[attachimg=1]

fromhttp://www.martin-usa.com/products/vakuusyst-vakuusyst-m1/

or even something like ..https://www.mima.de/index.php?bankmaster-DUO-VAKUUM---SAEULENSYSTEM-98882

... but I'm coming back to VAC-SYS because of all of it's other utility. Plus some of the cool stuff from Europe is hard to access here.

 

[Kev]

Don't know if it makes any difference, but after the pump switch is turned off, the piece remains tight to the head for some time, anywhere from at least 20 seconds on up. There should be time to remove the piece safely at the very least.

My fear would be walking away to make a cup of tea and having two heads on an incline and a delicate work piece in place. The chance of failure is likely to be very low - but I like to eliminate risk where possible. If I walked away with the heads mechanically clamped to a surface and the work piece balanced I'd be ok if the vacuum was lost.

 

[rst]

Kev, the Virutex headshttp://virutex.com/vacuumclamp-modelsvn-470 rotate 180 degrees.  The vac heads are much simpler design than the Sys Vac, but work great for large, mostly flat work.  I bought two of these and used them for plastic fabrication the last couple years.  These would be much easier to fab a custom setup.  That being said I bought both the Sys I and II and tow sets of each clamps because of the versatility of the various heads and sizes of work that can be clamped.  Some posters questioned the holding power.  I work with glass and we carry 96" X 130" sheets of 1/4" glass, 279 lb (not very far though!!) with two hand pumped cups the same size as the Sys Vac round head.  Glass fabricating companies and distributors routinely move much heavier glass with basically the same systems as Festools by simply adding more cups.

 

[Kev]

Kev, the Virutex headshttp://virutex.com/vacuumclamp-modelsvn-470 rotate 180 degrees.  The vac heads are much simpler design than the Sys Vac, but work great for large, mostly flat work.  I bought two of these and used them for plastic fabrication the last couple years.  These would be much easier to fab a custom setup.  That being said I bought both the Sys I and II and tow sets of each clamps because of the versatility of the various heads and sizes of work that can be clamped.  Some posters questioned the holding power.  I work with glass and we carry 96" X 130" sheets of 1/4" glass, 279 lb (not very far though!!) with two hand pumped cups the same size as the Sys Vac round head.  Glass fabricating companies and distributors routinely move much heavier glass with basically the same systems as Festools by simply adding more cups.

[member=25351]rst[/member] Interesting .. and they're compressor driven. My local Festool guy also sells Virutex, but he's never mentioned their clamping system (doesn't have them in his shop) .. possibly not part of the range that comes to Oz.

 

[Kev]

I'm wrong .. the Virutex vacuum clamps are available in Oz .. and work out to be about 30% cheaper than the VAC-SYS heads.

 

[Cheese]

Ok...update, I cranked up the Milwaukee vacuum pump to max, ( sorry, the pump is always at max) placed a piece of relatively smooth oak on the Festool vacuum chuck, brought it up to 25" Hg and then turned off the pump. It's been over 4 hours and I still cannot remove the wood from the vacuum head. Last time I looked at the readings they were 600+ initially versus 400+ 4 hours later.

 

[Kev]

[scared]

Ok...update, I cranked up the Milwaukee vacuum pump to max, ( sorry, the pump is always at max) placed a piece of relatively smooth oak on the Festool vacuum chuck, brought it up to 25" Hg and then turned off the pump. It's been over 4 hours and I still cannot remove the wood from the vacuum head. Last time I looked at the readings they were 600+ initially versus 400+ 4 hours later.

That'd allow me a pretty long tea break [big grin]

 

[Claimdude]

Peter,

I was at the Roadshow here in San Antonio this past Tuesday and one of the reps told me the roll cage is used as a reservoir.

Jack

One thing to remember when posting about the performance of the various pumps is that there are two different models - NA and NAINA.  I haven't used the NA model but I have heard that the metal roll cage of the NA model serves as a vacuum reservoir.  Perhaps I heard wrongly.

Peter

 

[Cheese]

I'm wrong .. the Virutex vacuum clamps are available in Oz ...

Kev,
The Festool vacuum head base is a real thing of beauty...seriously. Turn it over and just look at the casting design and reinforcement ribs. The mechanical functioning is elegant and the changing of vacuum heads is simple & fast.
I think the Festool version is well worth the extra 30% tariff based on just the construction of the unit. Then throw in the functionality and the ease of changing vacuum heads, and those become bonus rounds.  [cool]

 

[Kev]

I'm wrong .. the Virutex vacuum clamps are available in Oz ...

Kev,
The Festool vacuum head base is a real thing of beauty...seriously. Turn it over and just look at the casting design and reinforcement ribs. The mechanical functioning is elegant and the changing of vacuum heads is simple & fast.
I think the Festool version is well worth the extra 30% tariff based on just the construction of the unit. Then throw in the functionality and the ease of changing vacuum heads, and those become bonus rounds.  [cool]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] yes, I think I'll be going VAC-SYS. The heads suit my planned projects better too.