Please help me plan and critize my garage

[Tinker]

Oh, sorry, that wasn't what I meant to write. The garage is partly covered by my mother's apartment. However, the majority of the garage is covered by the patio.

It definetly gets cold in Norway, but water freezing in concrete isn't a concern at all. Concrete is a porous material, so if something freezes, it won't affect the concrete, as the water freezes in those pores. What makes concrete expand is if the rebar rusts. This won't happen here either, though.

I have been sceptical to the heating-method mentioned, but I figured if I ran a dehumidifier the same time as a heater, it would cancel eachother out. I have no knowledge of the humidity in air in Norway vs. Denmark. I guess it depends how close to the ocean you live. I live about 20minutes away. Having my garage dry and heated is of course preferable, but in the end, it all comes down to expenses.

Wow, I didn't know the electricity was that expensive in Denmark! The price definetly varies during the year (because we mainly rely on dams), but generally it's around that price. The subscription model varies, but we generally pay around 0,32NOK +30NOK/month.

Sjur

I don't understand where water into your garage is coming from if not thru the concrete.  You say concrete is pours, so water getting into it and freezing is not a concern.  That depends on the quality of the concrete.  If there was too much water in the mix when the concrete was placed, and the concrete is exposed to the elements, water getting into the concrete and freezing can create a problem.  If that water can get to the rebars, there will eventually be a bigger problem.  When i was in mason biz, any time we had a situation such as you mention, we used vibration to settle concrete into a denser mix.  There were additives we put into the mix as well that created a more dense mix when placed.  I have been out of the trade for 30+ years so I don't know what additives are available now.  But, if you are getting water from above, it has to be coming thru the concrete somehow. 

Until you find a way to stop that filtration, you will continue to have problems no matter how much insulation and heat you manage.
Tinker

 

[wrightwoodwork]

It definetly gets cold in Norway, but water freezing in concrete isn't a concern at all. Concrete is a porous material, so if something freezes, it won't affect the concrete, as the water freezes in those pores. What makes concrete expand is if the rebar rusts. This won't happen here either, though.
I am going to have to disagree with there water in concrete should be a concern. Yes it is pourous, but once they pores are full of water it has no where else to go. If it freezes in the pores when they are full of water it has to expand as that is what water does when it freezes. Which can cause cracks and weakness in the concrete . When rebar is placed in it should have a minimum cover to prevent water getting to the the rebar which will then rust and expand and blow the concrete

 

[wrightwoodwork]

He is a link explaining http://www.cement.org/for-concrete-books-learning/concrete-technology/durability/freeze-thaw-resistance

 

[Tinker]

Is the water coming in from above due to condensation.  If you only heat when working in the space, and it is cold outside, there will be a certain amount of condensation involved.

If the structure below the source of condensation is wood, that condensation will certainly come into contact with the wood.  Some woods can withstand a lot more moisture before decay than others. 

I have an entry porch on front of our house.  The house was originally framed completely with Redwood for all upright framing.  Whenever i did any remodeling, if it involved removal of any redwood, i saved the lumber (all 2x4).  when i closed in that porch entrance, i reused the Redwood.  I placed plexiglass in the top for view of trees.  We can see sky, trees and other landscape features thru that plexiglass. There is no insulation involved and we do get condensation when it storms. Probably some water seeping in around the flashing as well.  the redwood has a lot of very dark brown streaks in it, but so far, there has been no breaking down of the wood fibers.  If the framing under the plexiglass were fir or hemlock, i am sure the wood could be showing much decay by now.  The enclosure has been there for over thirty years (ah ha! it is almost as old as I am.  I started working on my house at a very young age.  :)
Tinker

 

[Sjur]

Thanks for the concern, guys.

My grandfather was a civil engineer that specialized in concrete, and worked primarily with tunnels and highways. He was the one who made the garage. He probably knew what he were doing when he made it, in terms of making the mix, vibrator, etc. My father, also an engineer, works with rehabilitation of large buildings. He told me that the water won't destroy the concrete. When I forwarded what you told me to him, he told me not to worry. He said that this circumstance was sort of a "one-off", so he said it would be hard for anyone to judge the issue without actually being there.

I can post a picture later of the patio. The patio does have two draining pipes to lead the water away. The long wall, where I'm placing the miter station, is an original wall (it was there before the garage was built) that supports the house. That wall is made out of hollow leca-blocks. The rest of the garage walls is concrete. These walls however have soil behind them, so they remain warmer in the winter as a result.

Sjur

 

[Tinker]

Sjur,
I won't go into all of the mistooks i have seen others (in the trades) made on their own houses, or properties.  I have made enuf of them on my own.  Usually, the mistooks were made when I was in way too much of a rush.  Often, it was a spur of the moment that a job was getting done in between other "paying" jobs.  My big concrete foopah was an outside terrace we decided to pour.  When we first moved into the house, there was a high bank just outside of our back door.  The bank was so steep that to get into the house, we had to climb the bank, bend over and reach for the wall of the house and slam our hand against that wall. Then we had to reach down to the kitchen door knob to open and hope we did not fall into the house once the door was opened. 

I had a good friend who had his own excavating biz and he and i had done many a job together. i had him dig out that steep bank.  (I think I have described that job in the past.  I don't have time to look for it now) once we had dug a level area, graded off the soft ledge and blown off the loose dirt, dust and stone chips, we debated what to do with that flat area.  First, we thought of putting an addition to the back of the house.  One afternoon, i had stopped at the house for lunch and suddenly, decided to put a terrace out there.  I had plenty of time to put in forms and screeds.  There was plenty of time to get the job inspected before pouring so I could put a structure over at another time.  As I was eating my lunch, i called the concrete company to see what day they could make a delivery.

The dispatcher said, "I have a truck that just came in. I have nothing scheduled for him and he can load up right now."

Well, my helper and I went into high gear and threw down forms at each end and tried to set some screeds.  All of a sudden, there was a roar out front as the concrete truck was backing up my driveway.  John and i rushed to do final support to the end forms and solidify the screeds.  We were almost ready when the driver said he was ready to "let 'er rip." 

With the first shot down the shoot, we blew out the far form and knocked down the screed pipes.  We managed to reset the end form, but proceeded without the screeds.
The floor ended up reasonably close to level and there were no puddles, but to be sure, we had made a hump in the middle to assure water runoff. 

As we were pouring, my BOSS LADY decided we should put color into the surface.  I sent her to the concrete supplier for packages of coloring.  I tried floating the coloring in with my wooden float, but it was not coming out too good.  I had never floated in color onto concrete floor so I was in trouble right from the start.  It came out better when i used my steel trowel.  By the time we finished up the floor was smooth as (almost) glass.  With the sun beating down in the semi enclosed space, and having used a stiff mix, the concrete was setting up too fast and what we see is what we get.  Actually, I was quite happy with the finish until next morning, after a short rain just before daybreak.  The concrete surface was wet and the kids ran out onto the "deck".  Our son not only ran onto the deck, he slid across and landed on his butt. 

It took a few storms and lots of traffic to settle that floor so it was no longer icy smooth. 

That was probably the poorest example of my concrete work and eventually, my back decided I should not mess around with that stuff except for footings where I did not have to bend over.  I had another friend who did all of my flat concrete work.  My back liked that arrangement much better.

Now that I am 39, if I bend over, I cannot straighten up for much of the day. But that is a basis for a lot more stories.
Tinker

 

[Sjur]

Hey guys,

I'm going to start the electrical work soon. I would love to hear some tips or stuff that you'd like to implement if you had the chance. Perhaps some of you have been in the same place as me, and came up with some awesome solutions? *fingers crossed*  [big grin]

I'm considering a power reel in the ceiling, above or near the main workbench, but as the ceiling is low, I'm not really sure I want a big reel sticking down.

I'm thinking to make my own splits on the ductwork. One issue I face is that all the used fans sold in Norway is usually below 1HP, or 7.5HP and upwards. I want a fan in the 3-4kW range, so I made an ad on a norwegian site 3 weeks ago, but I haven't gotten much response yet. I found that buying new is out of the question, even at commercial prices my brother is able to purchase them at.

I have gotten interested in CNC machines, and I'm contemplating on building one. That however will be long after I'm done with the garage. In the meanwhile, I plan on making a storage bench there. I have a belt sander without a base lying around, so I think I'm going to mount it the bench and take it from there.

Here is the current layout:

[attachimg=1]

The VFD's function as an outlet, so I won't need 3ph outlets where the VFD's are.

The lightning is just roughly drawn out. I'm thinking of using LED panels instead of fluorescent lights. This is because the ceiling is so low. Anyone got experience with this?

The lathe, kapex, combination machine and the bandsaw will all have relays, so when I start them, the dust collection also starts.

There will be also one manual switch for the DC, to start it without needing to start one of the machines.

The compressor will be wired seperately from the main panel, as there is an original outlet in the garage that the compressor will get power from.

The outlets marked in red is already in the garage.

I will have three seperate circuits for the light, the DC, and the rest of the stuff.

I'm going to have a main switch with a key that I turn when I leave and enter the shop. This will turn the lights on, and make it possible to start the machines. This is mostly for safety.

Sjur