Plywood Trick

[Packard]

That might work in Europe where there might be an expectation that packaging is returned to the shipper.  In the USA there is no expectation in that regard and disposable packing is the rule (generally corrugated cardboard containers).

 

[Birdhunter]

The advantage for my of using clamps is that I can align the edges of the strips as I clamp them against the door.

 

[mino]

I find a 600 x 400 Euro Container wheeled dolly useful - and inexpensive - for holding two stacks of Systainers
(for e.g. see bottom of the page linked below).

Obviously the bottom Sys doesn't lock on (and the perimeter lip is fairly shallow) so you might not want to push it across really bumpy ground outdoors, but they are used extensively in warehousing and fine for rolling around the workplace.https://www.tradesystems.co.uk/euro-boxes.html
...

LOL, do I know these moldings! These are actually made by TBA in CZ. Have a ton of them.

Here is their full catalog:https://www.tbaplast.cz/products/euro_container

The have mostly the same stuff as Auer, but their accessories are a bit more limited. They are also cheaper /over here/ so I usually go TBA for what they have and Auer for the rest.

What connects them is that both Auer and TBA have their inside sides fully vertical while some other makers have them semi-pyramidal which can be a pain when placing boxes inside and also wastes some space. That allows the inserts to be fully interchangeable.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Those euro ‘tainers are nice but you could fill the one first posted with sand (and cover the surface with multiples) and still not achieve near the pressure that a vacuum bag could, and the the hollow core door would fold.

Yet even with a vacuum bag you’d still need some weight to force the plywood to be flat against the door. The vacuum bag will simply squeeze the pieces of ply together. You have to use other means to make them flat.

All in all Birdhunter’s solution is effective and easy.

 

[Vondawg]

Milk crate

 

[Bob D.]

That might work in Europe where there might be an expectation that packaging is returned to the shipper.  In the USA there is no expectation in that regard and disposable packing is the rule (generally corrugated cardboard containers).

And the biggest offender would have the easiest time of resolving some of that waste, namely Amazon. They could start with just Prime members. Why, because they know they are coming back there soon with another delivery. Use totes with attached lids in modular sizes. Send items to Prime members then pick up the empties next time you are there. Charge for 'lost' totes at cost. I understand it may not work everywhere for a hundred different reasons, but there are plenty of places where it could and probably enough to make a big different in how much cardboard Amazon chews up in a day. I bet no one business (excluding government agencies here) generates more trash in a single day than Amazon, not even Walmart.

 

[Packard]

One of the issues we have in the USA, and the reason JIT manufacturing works so well in Japan and so poorly in the USA, is that the shipper typically is 1,500 miles away, and sometimes 3,000 miles, whereas in Japan most shipments are a few hours away, and in Europe not much further.  So returning packaging and pallets does not work so well here.

How well does it work in Australia or Argentina or other countries with vast distances to cover?

 

[mino]

Guys, I believe you missed the point of the Euro-containers.

These are NOT used for goods delivery. They are WAY too expensive for that.

They are used for:
- industrial parts shipping/movement on automated conveyor lines and then between suppliers /think like inside Amazon warehouses/
- easy storage of parts/equipment in businesses
- delivery of local goods, like donuts etc. where there is daily/frequent delivery, (fresh) meat delivery etc. etc.
- lastly, by non-commercial users as standard and durable storage boxes

I have never seen these used for actual general goods delivery.

Some companies who do home delivery use plastic boxes, but those are usually way more custom, with special handles, integrated trollies etc.

EDIT:

One of the issues we have in the USA, and the reason JIT manufacturing works so well in Japan and so poorly in the USA, is that the shipper typically is 1,500 miles away, and sometimes 3,000 miles, whereas in Japan most shipments are a few hours away, and in Europe not much further.  So returning packaging and pallets does not work so well here.

How well does it work in Australia or Argentina or other countries with vast distances to cover?

The "returning packaking" works with palletes in Europe not with the same supplier. That trully cannot work. The Euro-pallete standard works on an exchange basis. The goods are shipped to you and you give the shipper back the amount of palletes he brought the goods on. OR you pay the palletes value and later you sell them on to a reseller. The shipper will NOT return the palletes to the original business. Instead, they will be used locally by other business to package their goods. So one pallete will go to Spain from Germany with Festool Systainers and the same pallete will go from Spain to UK with vegetables ... and the flow goes. A standard EUR/EPAL palette is usually be reused 10-20 times before it is damaged.

As for the Euro-boxes, their varieties are used in a limited quantity for goods delivery, but this is for fresh goods like bakery or fresh meat where the delivery driver comes each day and takes back the empty boxes. They are not used cross-country or cross-company as they would be WAY too expensive for that. For fresh goods it works, as they get reused 100s or 1000s of times so it works out economically.

Hope helps.

 

[mino]

On topic, I do like the approach from OP for strips - it is certainly adequate there and helps a lot with the straightness.

I would probably look to use a Paulk-style reinforced bench with MFT holes for ease of clamping. But that is just an implementation detail.

OT:

Those euro ‘tainers are nice but you could fill the one first posted with sand (and cover the surface with multiples) and still not achieve near the pressure that a vacuum bag could, and the the hollow core door would fold.

Yet even with a vacuum bag you’d still need some weight to force the plywood to be flat against the door. The vacuum bag will simply squeeze the pieces of ply together. You have to use other means to make them flat.

All in all Birdhunter’s solution is effective and easy.

This is a good point. A Vac bag with a good pump can do about 50000 kPa (5000 kg/m2) which does about 600kg for a 40x30 area of the 20kg box.

That said, IMO, as long as the sides of a board are clamped tight, it should be enough to keep a sufficient pressure on the center so any natural bends in the sheet are overpowered. One does not need as-good-as-factory bond there when handling sheet glueups.

I was looking for the "bag" solution for scenarios where 30" wide boards need to be surface-glued. Vac bag is expensive and kinda overkill. I can place three 3/4 wooden boards on a cross-braced Paulk-style table and get a 2" laminate board out of them with little investment. Bar $20 of sand and $50 in boxes which I can reuse if needed.

The presumption is that edges will be clamped and the purpose of the sand weight is only to ensure the center of the boards can be glued too as clamps cannot reach there. I was even planning to purchase pieces of 10x1 steel rods as weights which would be $200 or more. Or some concrete slabs. This sounds much better as the plastic box bottoms are weak and bend-out under load by a few mm. So will evenly spread the pressure without a need for any sophisticated setup like the metal or concrete pieces would have asked for.

 

[Packard]

I’ve never edge clamped, but the largest pieces I have laminated are 24” x 96” x .75” to make a 1-1/2” thick piece.  With just the weight, I got squeeze-out around the perimeter, so I called that sufficient.  Your call.  With 1/2” thick, it will not spread the weight as evenly unless you place a 3/4” thick board over it before adding the weight.  Again, I used the clipped off wire brads to keep the sheets from sliding around and I recommend that.  It allows you to accurately get the register of the two sheets and it will keep everything in alignment while adding the clamps or weights.

 

[mino]

Thanks, absolutely.

For edge clamping I use 2x2 pieces I have for the purpose - both sides when "in the air" and one 2x2 where the stock is over MFT holes.

The end product will have an exposed curved edge so must be gap-free. Those are hard beach board that need a lot of pressure even if thicknessed. Once laminated, these will get a couple more passes over a thicknesser to get the "perfect" board.

They do not sell double-laminated boards like this over here and I need both cross and longitudal strength, plus as much shape stability as possible for the piece will be self-supporting. Plus I got the boards at a good price. Eh.

 

[Dane]

Just for future reference- Appleply is a domestic/American supplier of Baltic birch equivalent plywood and on their direct order site you can order plywood in a variety of thicknesses- up to 1.5 inches.  They also sell it in a variety of widths/lengths so the shipping isn’t quite to awful.  Anyway- definitely more expensive that’s gluing it up yourself, but probably more consistent and certainly a time saver.