Poll: For Those with a Festool MFT...

[Patrick Cox]

I have been having challenges getting square cuts with my MFT3 using the Festool Fence and Angle Unit...etc. so I am now going to evaluate some other methods of obtaining square cuts using the MFT3. 

So for those of you with a Festool MFT, do you use the standard Festool Fence, Angle Unit and Rail Kit for obtaining square cuts, or do you use some other method?  And if another method, how do you setup your cuts?

Thanks!

 

[rst]

I only use my MFT for square cuts and I use the Festool rail supports.  I made a UHMW version of the rail slop to take any any play between the rail and support.  I bought the Woodpeckers MFT square but before that I checked for square using a digital micrometer measuring between the rail and and a pair of dogs.  The only time I've had an issue is when the piece being cut moved.  If the cut is crucial I now clamp the piece against the rail with the Festool clamping element.  I can cut 27 1/2" off because I mounted an IncraLOCK Incremental Flip Shop Stop Cut-off Fence - 52" so that it sits flush with the back edge of the table rather than on it.

 

[waho6o9]

"So for those of you with a Festool MFT, do you use the standard Festool Fence, Angle Unit and Rail Kit for obtaining square cuts, or do you use some other method?"

No

I use QWAS dogs and dog rails and saved a ton of time doing so.

 

[Patrick Cox]

...I can cut 27 1/2" off because I mounted an IncraLOCK Incremental Flip Shop Stop Cut-off Fence - 52" so that it sits flush with the back edge of the table rather than on it.

Thanks for your reply [member=25351]rst[/member].  Do you have a picture of this?

 

[mkasdin]

This is one of those questions - ask 10 people and get ten different answers. First the rail slop needs to be addressed. You could wrap some painters tape around the indent, buy the "rail slop" fix or conversely I think you could take some finger nail polish and add a few light layers to achieve a tight fit. I'm not sure why festool doesn't address this and instead of having the finger out of aluminum use a consumable delrin or other non wear material that has a tighter fit.

Secondly, if you're on a budget Anderson Plywood (culver city, ca) makes a cnc mft square for around $25? It's basically a multi-Ply triangle shaped piece of wood with slight chamfered edges.

I think the rail stops, parf dogs, bench dogs, qwas dogs are a good supplement to working with the mft.

Btw- I don't own an mft. It's on my festool wish list along with a domino cutter

 

[tiralie]

So for those of you with a Festool MFT, do you use the standard Festool Fence, Angle Unit and Rail Kit for obtaining square cuts, or do you use some other method? 

Yes. I use a Woodpecker 18" "precision triangle" (sic) to set the fence and rail to 90 degrees.

 

[Jeff Zanin]

I am using the Festool flip-down guide rail with the MFT protractor / fence but I am positioning the fence against Veritas bench dogs.  The dogs align and support the fence for 90° cuts.

Paul-Marcel has a number of good videos on the MFT including one on using QWAS dogs to set it up.

 

[rljatl]

...I can cut 27 1/2" off because I mounted an IncraLOCK Incremental Flip Shop Stop Cut-off Fence - 52" so that it sits flush with the back edge of the table rather than on it.

Thanks for your reply [member=25351]rst[/member].  Do you have a picture of this?

[member=25351]rst[/member] Also, how did you mount the Incra fence to the MFT aluminum extrusion/table?

 

[ear3]

With the slop stop and some tension on the rail. square cuts are achievable on the MFT.

The squaring method I advocate, since it's simple and tangible, is to check the rail splinterguard against a scrap board slightly less than the depth of the table that has a scribe line from a Woodpeckers 32" T-square.  I've found that some of the dogs have slight tolerances that can cause them to shift in the hole ever so slightly when applying pressure.  The advantage of the board method is that because I've squared it at 3/4" thickness, I don't have to worry about it going out of square if I'm just cutting 3/4" material.  And if I need to double check the squareness because I've moved the table or fiddled with the rail supports, it's really simple and quick to throw the board back on.

Also make sure that when you're tightening down the fence stop, you are not shifting/bending the fence slightly, which can happen if the tab on the fence stop that engages the slot on the back of the fence is too far forward or back.

 

[monstrol]

I started out with the whole mft rail, protractor, etc, and once setup it worked great.  My needs are such that the mechanism got in the way more than I needed to accurately crosscut. So it is in storage and I use qwas stuff, dogs and the things that go into the rail and measure twice. If space allowed I would love to have 2 mfts with the Festool rail guide setup for dedicated cross cutting
and a couple more for glue up, dominoing, and more general stuff.  Just my 2 cents

 

[Patrick Cox]

OK, here is some data on my experience.  I had to this point left the factory stops as they were and I had used my Woodpecker 1281 square to square the cutting guide/track to the fence.  I have watched many videos on this process and felt like I knew how to do so.  And as I said in my first post, I have struggled getting square cuts.

So I decided to first adjust my fence to be parallel to the 2nd row of dog holes using Qwas Dogs.  I then checked the guide rail for squareness using my square and I thought it looked square so I performed the 5 cuts test.  And my final piece was...

31.6mm at one end, and
33.5mm at the other.  So obviously not square.  And this is likely better than what I was getting before.

So next I used my parallel guides to cut a strip of plywood to be 50mm wide and I used the plywood strip to align my cutting rail to a column of dog holes.  My strip of plywood was 50.16mm at one end and 50.25mm at the other.  So I loosened the feather keys and adjusted them to this measurement.  (Same as Paul Marcel video.)  I then checked the distance of the rail to each of the dogs I was using for setup and they were within 0.1-0.2mm of each other.

Finally I performed another 5 cut test with the following result...

22.2mm at one end
20.95mm at the other.  So still a bit over 1mm off.

I am not sure if this is close enough or if I need to try again.  And this was all using the MFT3 cutting kit.  I am also going to try out a set of Parf Dogs and see if I can do better with this.  But I need to figure this out before I get back to my Sysports I am trying to build because I have already burned through a sheet of Plywood in this process.

And a couple more things I thought of...

-I checked my square with drawing two lines and it seems to be square.
-I do have the Slop Stop installed in my guide rail.

Finally here are some pictures...

Setting up fence with Qwas Dogs:

Setting up Guide Rail with Dogs and Spacer:

Square:

Final Cuts:

Thanks for further comments.

 

[sancho57]

I use 2 of the angle stops/ protractor instead of the plastic black clamp on the fence.

Keeps the fence dead nuts. That black plastic clamp doesn't do a good job of securing the fence

 

[peter halle]

Now that you I see you have Qwas dogs, here is a video I did a long time ago...



Peter

 

[rst]

These are the modifications I made to expand the cutoff capacity of my MFT to 27 1/2"  View attachment 4View attachment 1View attachment 2  Sorry for the mashup...just momentarily learned to load and attach pics, with any luck I'll get better.

 

[Patrick Cox]

Now that you I see you have Qwas dogs, here is a video I did a long time ago...



Peter

This was very helpful [member=1674]Peter Halle[/member], thanks for sharing this.  I started my setup over and followed your process exactly, other than I used my 50mm spacer for setting up the guide rail, and I feel like I was able to get the setup as you described.  I ran out of time to make a test cut but I plan to tomorrow and will report back.

Also, I like your green cool aide bottle! 

 

[Patrick Cox]

With the slop stop and some tension on the rail. square cuts are achievable on the MFT.

The squaring method I advocate, since it's simple and tangible, is to check the rail splinterguard against a scrap board slightly less than the depth of the table that has a scribe line from a Woodpeckers 32" T-square.  I've found that some of the dogs have slight tolerances that can cause them to shift in the hole ever so slightly when applying pressure.  The advantage of the board method is that because I've squared it at 3/4" thickness, I don't have to worry about it going out of square if I'm just cutting 3/4" material.  And if I need to double check the squareness because I've moved the table or fiddled with the rail supports, it's really simple and quick to throw the board back on.

Also make sure that when you're tightening down the fence stop, you are not shifting/bending the fence slightly, which can happen if the tab on the fence stop that engages the slot on the back of the fence is too far forward or back.

These are good comments Ed.  I have run into the issue with the fence moving if you tighten the protractor head to the fence too late in the sequence of tightening everything down.

Also your comment on board thickness made me think of an issue I might be having.  When using the Woodpecker square to square everything up before tightening down the fence, I feel like the guide rail is at a slight angle due to it resting on the fence and then also I am trying to keep it as low in the front as I can so the square engages.  And I am wondering if when I do that the guide rail is angled down and is this causing the issue?

One of the good things about the method Peter laid out in his video is you square the guide rail to the dog holes at table level and then you square the fence to the dog holes at table level as well.  So there should be no issue here as long at the dog holes are square.

So anyway, thanks for everyone's input.  I'll make another test cut tomorrow.

Pat

 

[richk]

I found that the SlopStop helped a lot but was still found myself recalibrating things too often. So, I switched to RipDogs as described here: http://www.ripdogs.com/content/Rip_Dogs_Use_Instructions.pdf

I use the setup with the fence locked to the table and aligned against dogs. This setup is pretty quick and always dead-on.

 

[tjbnwi]

I bolted the fence to the top of one of my MFT's, square cut every time. This MFT is dedicated to cross cuts.

You can see one of the flathead bolts in this photo.

Tom

 

[Sapper]

Honestly, I've purchased several sets and variations of the dogs mentioned here, an extra black back rail lockdown thing as in Paul's videos, I've got a Woodpecker's square, Incra Tapes, and even the Seneca parallel guide system. Meh -

I build furniture (hobby) in my garage and my MFT3 has been set up in my garage for nearly a year and hasn't moved an inch. I have no need to be portable. My Dad loved the Festool stuff, and I tried, but it's just way too futzy. For all I've got in the system, I could probably get a hybrid table saw - and get much better results. Way too much irritation for my likes.

And maybe small, accurate component parts are too much to ask for the system, I don't know. Luckily, I consider myself a handtool woodworker and use the Festool for roughing out or getting it close. I'll finish up with my #7 and my shooting plane \ board.

I got tons of the green stuff when my Dad died. Guess that's why I haven't just sold it yet...

So, in short, I've spent a bunch in trying to get things easily and consistently square - and haven't found a good way. I hope you have better luck.

 

[mleny77]

So for those of you with a Festool MFT, do you use the standard Festool Fence, Angle Unit and Rail Kit for obtaining square cuts, or do you use some other method? 

Yes. I use a Woodpecker 18" "precision triangle" (sic) to set the fence and rail to 90 degrees.

I use this method as well and works great! Before I got the Woodpecker 18" precision triangle I was using the 8" square to set it up and got ok results [unsure]. After receiving the 18" triangle I checked the mft and it was out of square quite a bit [sad]. Now set up is fast and accurate!  ;D