Poor quality carpentry

[Packard]

I changed my post above to read:

Your daughter mentioned it because you [indoctrinated] inculcated her to the difference between good work and indifferent work.

It is not that college kids don’t care; they simply don’t notice these things. I’ll bet that Foggers (is that the right word?) notice indifferent workmanship where most of the rest of the world simply finds “invisible”.

Addendum: I have changed “indoctrinated” to “inculcated”, which is probably the word I was thinking of all along. Meaning you have pointed out the difference between good and bad quality workmanship often enough that is has become ingrained in her mind. It was never meant to be an insult to you or your daughter.

The google definition:

Inculcate is a verb meaning to teach or impress an idea, attitude, or habit upon someone through persistent, frequent instruction or repetition.

And that will be my last word on that subject.

 

[Vondawg]

Promise?

 

[mino]

...
Inculcate is a verb meaning to teach or impress an idea, attitude, or habit upon someone through persistent, frequent instruction or repetition.
...

I still do not like this version, though very much appreciate the clarification. I originally assumed a tongue-in-cheek way and just did not like it.

Why do you think the OP needed to effectively brainwash his daughter about a logical and sensible thing instead of merely showing and explaining?

Apologies, this really intrigues me. I see this take from multiple people lately who try to justify actual indoctrination in schools like this and it really bothers me. I would like to understand where this thinking that people are generally incapable of comprehension comes from. It seems extremely condescending and degressive to me.

/Yes. This line of argumentation is literally the communist totalitarian playbook /I lived it/ .. though I presume that is not the source of your take here./

 

[COBill]

It's a college residence; for anything on the campus I attended that meant the trim will be coated with vomit and beer soon enough.

 

[Cheese]

Packard meant no malice in his choice of words. Because the US has enjoyed a continuous democracy for the last 250 years, we don't have the history and trauma of being subjected to dictatorial governments, thus we can & do become insensitive/immune to correct word usage when used in a context that's relative to the rest of the world's problems and not ours. The word indoctrination, commonly used in the US connotes a more benign definition compared to the other parts of the world where its definition is tightly aligned with ruling dictatorial governments and is thus, absolutely abhorrent.

 

[Packard]

I know I said I would drop out of this conversation, but the use of “inculcate” seems to have gone astray.

Here are examples that google found:

Example Sentences:

• "The teacher worked hard to inculcate a love of reading in her students".
• "My parents tried to inculcate strong values of honesty and respect in me from a young age".
• "The company aims to inculcate a culture of safety among its employees".

Nothing derogatory in the standard usage. Though autocratic societies might want to inculcate fear.

 

[mino]

I know I said I would drop out of this conversation, but the use of “inculcate” seems to have gone astray.

Here are examples that google found:

Example Sentences:

• "The teacher worked hard to inculcate a love of reading in her students".
• "My parents tried to inculcate strong values of honesty and respect in me from a young age".
• "The company aims to inculcate a culture of safety among its employees".

Nothing derogatory in the standard usage. Though autocratic societies might want to inculcate fear.

I did not see that word before so could not cross-reference .. that Google "definition" read as a synonym for indoctrinate.

I do get your take now from the fact you tried to explain /and thus it is obvious what it is/.
Though do note that those Google examples do not support the message you are trying to make as they are applicable both for the meaning you clearly intended *and* for the brainwashing meaning the Google AI interpreted it as earlier on.

OT below, not read if not want your head to hurt.
------------------
@Cheese
Scarily, it is *not* about fear. To the contrary. Application of open threats is what uncovers brainwashing to the curious mind. I was a generation to be 'lucky' to face it. Professional indoctrinations *knows* this and works to avoid it direct threats to not spoil its work.

What I addressed was the conviction that molding the youth to follow "the one true way" is the correct course of action. Think to it as strict religious education but with the religion replaced by a designated secular ideology.

It does not matter if it is communists, fascists, woke, ISIS, you name it. The "one true way" aspect is the horrifying thing and trust me on one thing. It is not pushed into kids using the direct fear of authority. Force is used but indirectly, censorship, punishments, social pressure and all kinds of psychological manipulations are the name of the game. All by believers of "the greater purpose". The objective is for the targets to fear diverging from the "one true way" not fear the authority per se. To destroy their will from the inside. Risking to be expunged by the family, society etc. In US one can best reference this as Cancel Culture applied on a micro level.
That is what indoctrination is about. Ah, and language manipulation as noted above by Google is part of it. I guess you now see where I was going. Open threats for adults - those you reference - only make this easier to rebel against They are necessary post-revolution but are detrimental in young drones manufacturing. It is essential to convince the upcoming drone it is all for its well being, else it may rebel before its mind is sufficiently broken-in.

@Packard
I was not much bothered by your take though was genuinely curious where the totalitarian takes came from as it seemed odd given your quite mature approaches otherwise. To have it confirmed it came from good-faith using of the Google language "definitions" is not that surprising, given how political the AI that builds them is these days.

Only thing to that I will add: Be careful in taking what Google presents you at face value. Almost everything that has a political undertone is skewed by it towards justifying a "people are stupid and must be control" narratives these days.

OK, wrote what wanted to write. You may not agree .. just consider it a perspective of someone who was raised under an open totalitarian rule, then grew up in a 10-year window of 1990s where there was literally no indoctrination over here whatsoever /way less than in US at that time/ .. only to observe how it started steadily creep-in from the West this time /mostly funded by USAID and their UK friends/.

 

[Packard]

I did not see that word before so could not cross-reference .. that Google "definition" read as a synonym for indoctrinate.

I do get your take now from the fact you tried to explain /and thus it is obvious what it is/.
Though do note that those Google examples do not support the message you are trying to make as they are applicable both for the meaning you clearly intended *and* for the brainwashing meaning the Google AI interpreted it as earlier on.

OT below, not read if not want your head to hurt.
------------------
@Cheese
Scarily, it is *not* about fear. To the contrary. Application of open threats is what uncovers brainwashing to the curious mind. I was a generation to be 'lucky' to face it. Professional indoctrinations *knows* this and works to avoid it direct threats to not spoil its work.

What I addressed was the conviction that molding the youth to follow "the one true way" is the correct course of action. Think to it as strict religious education but with the religion replaced by a designated secular ideology.

It does not matter if it is communists, fascists, woke, ISIS, you name it. The "one true way" aspect is the horrifying thing and trust me on one thing. It is not pushed into kids using the direct fear of authority. Force is used but indirectly, censorship, punishments, social pressure and all kinds of psychological manipulations are the name of the game. All by believers of "the greater purpose". The objective is for the targets to fear diverging from the "one true way" not fear the authority per se. To destroy their will from the inside. Risking to be expunged by the family, society etc. In US one can best reference this as Cancel Culture applied on a micro level.
That is what indoctrination is about. Ah, and language manipulation as noted above by Google is part of it. I guess you now see where I was going. Open threats for adults - those you reference - only make this easier to rebel against They are necessary post-revolution but are detrimental in young drones manufacturing. It is essential to convince the upcoming drone it is all for its well being, else it may rebel before its mind is sufficiently broken-in.

@Packard
I was not much bothered by your take though was genuinely curious where the totalitarian takes came from as it seemed odd given your quite mature approaches otherwise. To have it confirmed it came from good-faith using of the Google language "definitions" is not that surprising, given how political the AI that builds them is these days.

Only thing to that I will add: Be careful in taking what Google presents you at face value. Almost everything that has a political undertone is skewed by it towards justifying a "people are stupid and must be control" narratives these days.

OK, wrote what wanted to write. You may not agree .. just consider it a perspective of someone who was raised under an open totalitarian rule, then grew up in a 10-year window of 1990s where there was literally no indoctrination over here whatsoever /way less than in US at that time/ .. only to observe how it started steadily creep-in from the West this time /mostly funded by USAID and their UK friends/.

I had a co-worker who left Poland while still under the direct influence of Russia. I asked him what the was the first thing he did when he arrived in the USA.

He replied, “I went to a bookstore and bought a copy of Animal Farm.” That was about the last thing I would have expected to hear. It represented the difference of perspective. And I suspect perspective is what is going on in this discussion.

Note: He had read the book in mimeographed form. People passed along a few pages at a time. The stencil was manually typed so some of the content was suspect. Eventually, everyone in his group read the entire mimeographed transcript.