The hose clamps are actually pvc that I spray painted green to be cheeky. The parts that clamp around the arm are cutoffs of couplers and the various sizes of pvc are for two power cords and a 36 mm hose and 27 mm hose. All the pieces were glued and screwed together. The coupler pieces were cut similar to how some people have used cut pvc as clamps. It allows me to slide them on the different segments of the arm more easily. The other benefit of this is that I was able to rotate the hose clamps exactly where I wanted them and then send a screw between the two ends so the clamps don't move around and sag to the underside of the arm. I'm sure a picture would help but I don't have one at the moment. I'll post one tomorrow.
Portable Boom Arm mounted to MFT/ T-Track
- Thread starter Pancha
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The hose just clips in and pulls out. I don't have to feed the hose through each one. So I've got that going for me..which is nice. Eventually I would like to have some wooden ones laser cut with a similar profile so they are more consistent and I can really dial in the dimensions. As it stands, some of the hose clamps are harder to clip the hose into than others. It was hard to get them all exactly the same with out spending a lot of time on it.
The hose just clips in and pulls out. I don't have to feed the hose through each one. So I've got that going for me..which is nice. Eventually I would like to have some wooden ones laser cut with a similar profile so they are more consistent and I can really dial in the dimensions. As it stands, some of the hose clamps are harder to clip the hose into than others. It was hard to get them all exactly the same with out spending a lot of time on it.
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Rusty Miller said:
Can't wait to see what you come up with! I might add, It may be infinitely faster to buy a couple of different sized hole saws and a drill press and make them out of 1/2" ply or whatever...Plastic? the process for making them out of pvc was way more laborious than I anticipated. I would do it differently if I were to do it over again. And will...
crampedshop
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Did you make the clips one at a time? I was thinking of cutting 8 to 10 inch lengths of PVC; stand them up on a band saw to cut out the missing segment; glue the different diameters together; and then cross cut the assembly on a bandsaw. That way you would be doing a bunch at a time.
crampedshop said:
That is a particularly good Idea! I would suggest screwing them together as well. I don't know if glue alone would hold all of that together. Might "explode" on you? I don't know. I guess that depends on the glue. I would love to see pictures of the process and how it turns out. I don't own a bandsaw..yet, i hope to some day soon. It's one of those tools that is great/necessary to have in your quiver, especially for things like this. I hope your bandsaw has good dust collection. The pvc gets pretty "static-y" when it's cut. It sticks to EVERYTHING. I know because I just tracked a bunch in the house after making a "washer" for gliding inside the t-track. The knobs I used were meant for holding the kapex to the kapex mft. As such, they were threaded the entire length of the shank. I knew it would mar the track and it is, so I got some m8 bolts with a partial smooth shank as well as some washers. I dadoed the plastic to receive the bolt head which made a mess of my backyard/shop :'(. I'm going to round the edges of the plastic when I get to my jobsite in Denver where the appropriate tools sit. I'm hoping that will make sliding the mount into the t-track more ergonomic. [attachthumb=1][attachthumb=2][attachthumb=3].
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crampedshop
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[member=57374]Pancha[/member] Thanks for validating my idea. You have motivated me to start working on a prototype. I want to come up with a jig to hold all the pipes in the right orientation while the adhesive cures. From your pictures, I can see that you used 1.5" PVC for the boom arm itself. Can you tell me what the various sizes of the PVC is that goes into the clip.
Thanks
Thanks
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Great idea! I wonder if a boom arm could be made with Festool tubes, either the stainless or plastic D36 ones. Two angled pieces make the bend, and a short length of hose at either end allows extraction through the arm and reduces what needs to be carried around, as another poster mentioned.
Chris Wong, thanks for sharing. It certainly seems feasible and more elegant than PVC. Also, just plugging the hose into the top of the arm is much simpler in terms of setup/breakdown as well as weight savings. As I said in an earlier post, my one problem with that approach is that you are committed to a certain length hose. If it's too long it will snag on things or become cumbersome. If it's too short you won't be able to perform certain tasks. You have two options the way I see it. Either you have different length hoses for different tasks or you go my route where you use clips and can modulate the length of hose coming off the top of the boom arm. I like my way because I use my boom arm for a myriad of tasks that require different lengths of hose. But people who plan to use their boom arm for one specific task may prefer yours. Carpenter/woodworkers choice. I use mine primarily for cutting ipe pavers, but I have also used it to break down sheet goods for stain grade deep soffit covered porches, siding etc. When I need a longer length of hose I can either feed more hose through the clips or pull the hose out and re-snap it back in at a different length. Again, I don't have a bias one way or the other, but my needs/interests require more flexibility.
Also, as soon as you start moving into different heavier/more rigid materials such as stainless steel. The more unrealistic my boom mount becomes in it's current state. The easier it becomes to tug on the hose and permanently alter the t-track, the less realistic this solution becomes. If one were to go with steel, I would definitely anchor the mount to the v-groove on the top of the mft extrusion or the t-track on the underside of it. If you're using 80-20 then it's even more variable based on the profile you've chosen. I could be way off base here, but this is how I'm thinking..
Cheers and thanks for being a part of the discussion
Also, as soon as you start moving into different heavier/more rigid materials such as stainless steel. The more unrealistic my boom mount becomes in it's current state. The easier it becomes to tug on the hose and permanently alter the t-track, the less realistic this solution becomes. If one were to go with steel, I would definitely anchor the mount to the v-groove on the top of the mft extrusion or the t-track on the underside of it. If you're using 80-20 then it's even more variable based on the profile you've chosen. I could be way off base here, but this is how I'm thinking..
Cheers and thanks for being a part of the discussion
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If you designed it smartly, you wouldn't be limited to certain usable hose lengths.
First of all, adding or removing a length of tube changes the height/length of the boom arm, and would affect the reach.
Also, a hose would be required at each end of the boom arm - one to connect the boom arm to the dust extractor and one to connect the boom arm to the track saw or other tool being used on the MFT. I would make the two hoses slightly different in length so I could swap them if required. Perhaps cut a 3.5 m hose into two pieces, 1.25 and 2.25 metres long.
I think that this second approach with two hose lengths is more practical and adaptable.
First of all, adding or removing a length of tube changes the height/length of the boom arm, and would affect the reach.
Also, a hose would be required at each end of the boom arm - one to connect the boom arm to the dust extractor and one to connect the boom arm to the track saw or other tool being used on the MFT. I would make the two hoses slightly different in length so I could swap them if required. Perhaps cut a 3.5 m hose into two pieces, 1.25 and 2.25 metres long.
I think that this second approach with two hose lengths is more practical and adaptable.
Chris Wong said:
Chris Wong, Being able to swap hoses of different lengths is an interesting Idea. I have tried to go with a 50mm hose attaching to a 27 or 36 mm hose depending on need and what you have already. I think this gives you better dust collection than going with a 36 mm hose the entire way. I know others on the fog have said that a 50mm hose doesn't help with dust collection but I haven't found that to be the case. Maybe somewhere on the fog there is someone who has tested this. Still, your argument has merit. Your solution may be more practical, although I fail to see how it would be more adaptable. More specifically, I'm not sure about the hose ends. I don't have any experience with the stainless steel tradesman cleaning set and the inherent connections. I will pick one up to play around with it and see how everything connects together. I would also consider the price of festools cleaning set vs. PVC which is cheap and readily available and does the job. People can custom cut it to their desired lengths based on their needs and personal height. At the same time, people do like having a product that looks professional even if the only person seeing it is them. Maybe someone else can chime in on these topics... I'm not positive you could swap the different length hoses with out changing the hose ends and have them be "swapable". If you can, that would be really cool and it would encourage me to consider this solution further. Ultimately I still like being able to really "micro-tune" the length of hose coming off the top but that may not be something others are interested in. I don't see removing segments of the arm to modulate the reach of the hose as a realistic solution because for me, part of the point of the boom arm is to have it swivel above your head so it's not too tall that you can't reach it, in your face, or something hovering directly above the work surface. Again, Maybe other's feel differently. I'm going to explore your idea further and see what I find. It's definitely a good Idea and worth exploring..."smartly".
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Pancha,
You are correct about hose fittings. The tool end of either the D27 or 37 hoses will connect to the "back" (closest to dust extractor) end of the Festool tubes. I've actually never used the tubes in line before, so I'd have to check what fits on the "front" end.
Festool also makes polypropylene tubes for cleaning sets which are light. I don't think they'd be as sturdy for this application, though.
You are correct about hose fittings. The tool end of either the D27 or 37 hoses will connect to the "back" (closest to dust extractor) end of the Festool tubes. I've actually never used the tubes in line before, so I'd have to check what fits on the "front" end.
Festool also makes polypropylene tubes for cleaning sets which are light. I don't think they'd be as sturdy for this application, though.
I was a volunteer fireman for many moons. During that time, I did attend classes as they became available. We learned about the effect on water hoses from length and diameter vs pressure. Any fittings also effected pressure even more than length of hose. I do not have any of the information I stored either on paper or in my head, but I relate vacuum problems in the sme way as I had to look at pressure problems when operating a pumper for water to put out a fire. Length and size of hose I think make a big difference in picking up dust. any change in air floe due o change of fitting size will affect the velocity of air flow as well, perhaps more than size and length of hose.
I have a short length of 27mm hose attached to my saw and routers with the main hose being 36mm. The voluum of air and dust that can be handled by the larger hose is the same as the capacity of the vac. It just moves slower the larger the hose. At the tool end, the vomuum of air is the same per cubic inch, but t is actually moving faster. I think the CT vacs are designed to put out a certain voluum of air (vacuum) and the hoses are designed to allow a certain voluum of air and dust. To go the the 50mm hose would be counter productive over a long run as the air velocity would be slowed and dust would settle in the hose, especially if the hose is elevated overhead. (I forgot to mention "elevation" in my explanation about fire hoses)
Tinker
I have a short length of 27mm hose attached to my saw and routers with the main hose being 36mm. The voluum of air and dust that can be handled by the larger hose is the same as the capacity of the vac. It just moves slower the larger the hose. At the tool end, the vomuum of air is the same per cubic inch, but t is actually moving faster. I think the CT vacs are designed to put out a certain voluum of air (vacuum) and the hoses are designed to allow a certain voluum of air and dust. To go the the 50mm hose would be counter productive over a long run as the air velocity would be slowed and dust would settle in the hose, especially if the hose is elevated overhead. (I forgot to mention "elevation" in my explanation about fire hoses)
Tinker
Tinker said:
Tinker, thanks for weighing in. So in your estimation, using a 50mm hose with a boom arm is pointless/counter productive? I have a 50mm hose that goes from the vac to the bottom of the boom arm. From there, either a 27 or 36mm hose takes over. You think I should reduce the hose diameter at the bottom?
[member=57374]Pancha[/member] Quote:So in your estimation, using a 50mm hose with a boom arm is pointless/counter productive? I have a 50mm hose that goes from the vac to the bottom of the boom arm. From there, either a 27 or 36mm hose takes over. You think I should reduce the hose diameter at the bottom?
If the 50mm is raying flat, I don't think it would not work. If it rises more than to get to your CT connection, it should be ok. If you already have the 50mm hose, give it a try. In my case, the rise is immediate from tool to ceiling (6'8") and back down to the cyclone. In that case, a 50mm might work for using a sander. I think it would clog if i were using my routers, or maybe even my TS55. I have the older CT33 which has ess pull than the news models.
If you try the 50mm hose from the bottom of your boom, let us know how it worked and the conditions you used it. The rise is probably the most important factor in how it will work. the fittings will probably be the same hether yo go direct from your tool DOWN to the vac or rise to ceiling and then back down.
I sometimes use an extra length of hose to reach my WoodRat (w/625 DW router )drill press or a stationary sander. In that case, i run the hose as close to level or slightly down hill from machine to CT. If using the Rat with the extra length of hose, I go direct to the CT and bypass my cyclone. I have never tried going thru the cyclone when using the extra length of hose. It can be more hassle than I care for if the hose clogs, or if the clogging is inside of the Rat frame.
Tinker
If the 50mm is raying flat, I don't think it would not work. If it rises more than to get to your CT connection, it should be ok. If you already have the 50mm hose, give it a try. In my case, the rise is immediate from tool to ceiling (6'8") and back down to the cyclone. In that case, a 50mm might work for using a sander. I think it would clog if i were using my routers, or maybe even my TS55. I have the older CT33 which has ess pull than the news models.
If you try the 50mm hose from the bottom of your boom, let us know how it worked and the conditions you used it. The rise is probably the most important factor in how it will work. the fittings will probably be the same hether yo go direct from your tool DOWN to the vac or rise to ceiling and then back down.
I sometimes use an extra length of hose to reach my WoodRat (w/625 DW router )drill press or a stationary sander. In that case, i run the hose as close to level or slightly down hill from machine to CT. If using the Rat with the extra length of hose, I go direct to the CT and bypass my cyclone. I have never tried going thru the cyclone when using the extra length of hose. It can be more hassle than I care for if the hose clogs, or if the clogging is inside of the Rat frame.
Tinker
Tinker said:
I've been using the 50mm hose at the base of my boom arm for a month or so(from the vac to 2' above the ground). I've noticed an improvement in dust collection. From there to my tool, I have been using either a 36 or 27mm hose. It has worked fine. I notice a little bit of dust falls out of the hoses when I pull them apart, roll them up and carry them from point a to point b but I haven't noticed a deluge of sawdust falling out of my hoses. I modeled my concept after the actual festool boom arm which includes a 5' foot 50mm hose coming off the vac to the base of the boom arm. I'de be curious to know if they have posted any testings or conclusions on how to effectively use different gauge hoses for different lengths in different applications, and whether the 50 mm hose is actually an improvement over a 36 for this application and when it wouldn't be.
Quote: >>>I'de be curious to know if they have posted any testings or conclusions on how to effectively use different gauge hoses for different lengths in different applications, and whether the 50 mm hose is actually an improvement over a 36 for this application and when it wouldn't be.
Aah! Very cool!
I love stuff that breaks down to fit in a Systainer for portability. [cool]
Seth
I love stuff that breaks down to fit in a Systainer for portability. [cool]
Seth
