Possible Domino Problem - Need Advice

[Dave Hale]

Post #2..........By reading most of helpful posts on this site, I've been working through my learning curve with Festool pretty well, but I'm stumped on this one........

OK. I'm trying to join together a 3/4" cedar arm support (2" width) to a 1X6 3/4" thick cedar arm.
I'm using 5mm bit and tenons.

1. Vertical plunge, with the little plastic base attached, into the cedar arm (no knots) takes 15-20 seconds with a bit of 'chatter'. If I don't hold it down real tight, the base moves. I'm not a little guy (6' 2" 240lbs) so holding down real tight is not sitting loose on the boards, I'm pushing down pretty strongly.

2. The tenons do not push in by hand, I have to beat them in with a dead-blow hammer.

Width - normal
Depth - 12 (arm) & 25 (support)

What am I doing wrong?
I mean, it's Western Red Cedar, not real hard stuff.

 

[Toller]

Well, I can just give you my experience.

I have used it on cherry, oak, and sycamore.  Takes about 2 seconds.  A free cut chatters a bit if you aren't careful; cuts that have one of the guidepins stuck in another hole are pretty smooth without much effort.  (I have never tried the plastic guide you mention; maybe that is the problem.  Try it on a bigger piece of wood and see if it works better.)

The dominoes vary; some go in easily, others need to be tapped in.  But none really need to be hammered hard. 

So, I would say you are either doing something wrong, or there is a problem with your machine.
Or maybe it just doesn't work well with soft wood; though that would be hard to understand.

 

[Dave Hale]

Post #2..........By reading most of the helpful posts on this site, I've been working through my learning curve with Festool pretty well, but I'm stumped on this one........

OK. I'm trying to join together a 3/4" cedar arm support (2" width) to a 1X6 3/4" thick cedar arm.
I'm using 5mm bit and tenons.

1. Vertical plunge, with the little plastic base attached, into the cedar arm (no knots) takes 15-20 seconds with a bit of 'chatter'. If I don't hold it down real tight, the base moves. I'm not a little guy (6' 2" 240lbs) so holding down real tight is not sitting loose on the boards, I'm pushing down pretty strongly.

2. The tenons do not push in by hand, I have to beat them in with a dead-blow hammer.

Width - normal
Depth - 12 (arm) & 25 (support)

What am I doing wrong?
I mean, it's Western Red Cedar, not real hard stuff.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Something aint right ???  That plunge should only take a couple of seconds.  Does it always chatter in any wood?  If so, I would expect a damaged bit.  Is your workpiece firmly clamped?  Is the Domino correctly supported?  I have had problems like that when I didn't realize that the fence was set so high that the bottom on he Domi was resting on the bench, and when I pressed down harder it just made the Domi pivot at an angle.

 

[Ted Miller]

Dave,

I agree with Jesse, check out that bit, is it dull or damaged in any way?...

 

[Dave Hale]

Vertical cut with arm clamped to MFT, nice and tight. Vertical support attached to the base to help the 'levelness'. Fence at 90 degrees and fence handle is what I'm pressing on, nice and tight. I'll check out the bit tonight, it's only got 50-odd plunges on it. Thanks for quick responses.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Post #2..........By reading most of helpful posts on this site, I've been working through my learning curve with Festool pretty well, but I'm stumped on this one........

OK. I'm trying to join together a 3/4" cedar arm support (2" width) to a 1X6 3/4" thick cedar arm.
I'm using 5mm bit and tenons.

1. Vertical plunge, with the little plastic base attached, into the cedar arm (no knots) takes 15-20 seconds with a bit of 'chatter'. If I don't hold it down real tight, the base moves. I'm not a little guy (6' 2" 240lbs) so holding down real tight is not sitting loose on the boards, I'm pushing down pretty strongly.

2. The tenons do not push in by hand, I have to beat them in with a dead-blow hammer.

Width - normal
Depth - 12 (arm) & 25 (support)

What am I doing wrong?
I mean, it's Western Red Cedar, not real hard stuff.

What base and why are you using it? Try it without the extra base.

The wood should not move at all while plunging. If it does move the hole will be too narrow.

You are using the "normal" setting for the mortice, you mean the narrow setting? If so, in the best of circumstances the 5mm Domino is a tight fit in a narrow mortice. The 5mm Dominos are not really radiused on the side, they come to a point instead. Try one in a wider mortice and it will seem loose by comparison. I sometimes sand off the point on the sides when using the narrow mortice.

Finally, it is possible that the cutting end of the bit sheered off. It's happened before, most often with the 5mm bit, but it's unlikely you wouldn't have noticed.

 

[Dave Hale]

The 'base' I'm talking about is called the 'support' in the manual....
Came in the box with the domino. The board I'm cutting into (from above vertically) is clamped down on the MFT. No movement of the board is happening.

(From the manual)
The support (9.1) can be used to enlarge the contact area during
jointing at the workpiece edge, thus allowing safer guidance
of the machine.
Secure the support with both screws (9.2) to the threaded
bores (9.3) of the guide frame, whereby the contact areas
of the support ring (9.5) and the table (9.4) must be on the
same plane.
(end)

Looking at the bit, I can't see anything wrong, but I'm thinking that's the problem. The top edges of the mortise aren't real clean.
Nature of the soft cedar maybe?
I'll try to compare with a new one tomorrow. 5 mm isn't very big to detect a slight problem with the bit. 

I'll report back tomorrow....
Thanks again for the advice.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Dave, the first thing I like to say is you've done a great job in wording the title of your thread a "possible problem". Too many people just assume their tool must be bad if they are having problems. I think you'll find the members here respond much better to questions asked if a positive way and you've done that. 

I know what support piece you're talking about, it's the black plastic with two thumb screws and mounts to the base for vertical cuts. It really does sound like the bit is bad, do you have another bit to try as a comparison? I'd recommend you call Festool's service dept., if its the bit they should replace it since it has so few cuts on it and if it's not the bit the tool should be serviced. Good luck and let us know how it works out.

 

[Dave Hale]

Brice, I learned a long time ago to look at the nut between the keyboard & the seat first. 

OK. Think I've got it figured out.
I compared the tiny, little 5mm bit with the honker 10mm and I can feel some roughness on the sides. My guess is that I've hit a screw in the process of joining the arms up to the frame. Adirondack chairs, if any of you are wondering. 4 at one time. Friends asked for them (they're paying a little over cost) and I thought that instead of screws in the arms, I'd try out this new-fangled Domino!! It is a much cleaner look, I must say. I've always hated the screws in mine.   

That's problem #1.
#2 is the tenons. I nuked them in the microwave for 30 seconds and they went in much easier! I didn't mention the tenons are at 'shop' temperature and humidity.
#3 is the Domino depth setting. I wasn't pushing hard enough to hit the complete depth I had set. While seating the arms on the frame, I've cracked 3 arms in the process. 
But I am getting good at 'cloning' the arms. (bandsaw rough, flush on the router table, roundover on the router table).  ;D

Learning as I go along.........
Thanks for all the help all.....

Oops. 1 more question.
The Domino body is HOT after 12 mortises (20-30 seconds each). Is that normal?

 

[Ted Miller]

Dave,

Yes the body does get hot, I did about 50 plunges in a row yesterday, with the 5mm bit in oak, and the body does heat up.

I do hold the Domino from the back, I grab the tool near the cord this way I make sure my plunges go in smooth and straight every time.

I only use the 1st setting for the width of the plunge, I want zero play side to side but I set the depth a bit deeper than needed for each tenon...

 

[Jerry Work]

How deep are you trying to cut?  The 5mm cutter will only cut 15MM deep w/o the shank hitting the mouth of the mortise.  If you are trying to cut deeper than that you may be rubbing the shank causing the bit and the machine to heat up.  No matter how hard the wood the Domino bits will cut the slot in one simple push.  No force is needed other than overcoming the spring tension.  Some people press down (levering the machine and trying to bend it) while pressing in and that could cause the slide mechanism to hang up on the posts I suppose so check your technique by removing the bit and press the machine into the work piece.  Everything should be smooth with no hesitation.  Now remount the bit and try the same technique with the bit spinning.  Any difference other than the cut action?  Shouldn't be.

The 5mm tenons usually are tighter than the other sizes and do require a tap or two to seat and often a pair of diagonal cutters to remove (clamp and lever up).  When the machine is new the brushes will arc a bit and the machine will heat up in use.  Once the brushes seat (several hours of use) then the heat build up is only from the friction of the bit transferring to the shaft of the tool. 

If you are sure you are cutting no more than the correct depth for the bit, and both carbides are clean/unbroken on the bit tip, then call Festool or return to your dealer to find out what is wrong.  Those machines are quite simple and cut like a champ from my experience.  The fence you are using should have nothing to do with the cut quality so long as you have the fence clearly registered on the top and edge of the work piece.

Jerry

 

[Dave Hale]

Problem solved! Went to the toy store and compared my 5mm bit to a new one. Just a little problem with it.  ;D
See the pic.
OUCH! I had played with the 10mm bit before to get the feel for the Domino, but the 5mm was sitting in the box unused.
Guess somewhere along the line, I lost a 'bit of the bit'. Don't know when, but now I'm amazed any of the mortises worked.
If I had thought about it a little bit, I could have compared the 2 for length. My brain didn't get to that point.
Tested a new bit, smooth as silk. Live and learn. Thanks to all for the advice.

[attachthumb=1]

 

[JJ Wavra]

I am glad to hear you got it all worked out.  The domino is one machine that should be a time saver and hoopefully it will be for you now that you have the the bit thing worked out.

happy mortising!

JJ

 

[Brice Burrell]

Dave, I hate to imply that you're a knucklehead but those of us that have been around the Festool block once or twice knew that was your problem.

I'm just kidding about the knucklehead comment, glad your story has a happy ending. How about posting a few pics of your Adirondack chairs.

 

[Dave Hale]

OK, now that I'm over the 'knucklehead' comments, I'll post some pics.... 
Customers were happy with them since they're not as low to the ground as most.
Cedar, each chair weighs 20-30 lbs. Solid as a rock.
First time with the Earlex sprayer too. Soooooooooo much faster than a brush!

 

[John Stegall]

Glad your "problem" is solved. Great looking Chairs! The best thing about the domino for me is that once I got over the price I began to look at ways to make it pay for itself. Now, I think it deserves a raise.
john

 

[fidelfs]

I would say that is a definitely a domino problem  .  Domino should detect the bit is broken and stop working and also if you hand is becoming hot because the contact with the machine, the domino should start a small AC to cool off and make you more confortable.

As you know I am kidding, your chairs are awesome.  Nice work.

Fidel