PoWeR

[jmbfestool]

PM me your email address and I'll send you a PDF document of the Wayleave Agreement for the Midlands Electricity Board that is in the Deeds pack for my house. I know it won't directly apply, but some of the wording I have to presume will be standard across these things, and I'd have to presume that your supplier already has a wayleave or easement in order to have run the lines originally.

Importantly, my text states "the right hereby granted to include the right to erect and or lay additional apparatus to that originally erected and laid in contradistinction from and in addition to the right already given to replace apparatus". I read that as saying they have the right to make new connections and install new equipment.

And "for any of such works as aforesaid and to break up and excavate so much of the said land as may from time to time be necessary and remove and dispose of any surplus earth PROVIDED that in so doing the Board shall cause as little damage as may be to the said land and shall so far as practicable make good and restore the surface thereof". I read that as they'll put it back to as close to the condition as they found it. I guess you would be responsible for this charge?

Not that it directly helps you, but it might give you some background and you might be able to reference it in conversation with your supplier.

I'd still ask the direct question - i.e. can they provide written confirmation that there are no existing wayleaves or easements in place that would allow this work to proceed?

Thank you very much,

It does help when speaking to these people using the proper terms etc. 

I didn't pop e question yet about a written confirmation because she asked me to give her a couple of days to look into it.  Not like they have had long enough already, but I gotta give her opportunity to resolve it.   

If she comes back saying it has to go through court etc. I will make them write me a writer letter explaining why and confirm there is not other avenue to take  ie. they have no wayleave or easement.

I can then take this to the ombudsman...???  http://www.ombudsman-services.org/contact-us-energy.html

 

[mattfc]

Have you taken any legal advice.. or know a friendly solicitor to chat to. I would guess most conveyancing solicitors should be able to give you an idea of rights and implications, since for example when I recently purchased a house, my solicitor ran through easements, rights of access, mineral rights etc. They must come into this all the time with utilities, sewers etc through property boundaries

could be way cheaper than batteries and a generator!

Sounds like the electrical company is being pretty slack, £10k, 20k, they are having a complete laugh, am pretty sure anything they need to sort is run of the mill, with these kinds of figures banded about, they seem to think you will be paying for them to set some kind of precedent in case law!

 

[jmbfestool]

Have you taken any legal advice.. or know a friendly solicitor to chat to. I would guess most conveyancing solicitors should be able to give you an idea of rights and implications, since for example when I recently purchased a house, my solicitor ran through easements, rights of access, mineral rights etc. They must come into this all the time with utilities, sewers etc through property boundaries

could be way cheaper than batteries and a generator!

Sounds like the electrical company is being pretty slack, £10k, 20k, they are having a complete laugh, am pretty sure anything they need to sort is run of the mill, with these kinds of figures banded about, they seem to think you will be paying for them to set some kind of precedent in case law!

I know! Tell me about it was a big shock when she started throwing these figures about not only that she also said this can go on and on for many years apparently.

I'm sure I have a right of supply but at a reasonable cost  £20k just to get the rights and then plus cost of actually doing it I think is wrong. 

And I believe the electrical company is just trying to scare me off because it must cost them money to instigate all this.

Jmb

 

[mattfc]

I just get the feeling based on what you have said they see this as more hassle than its worth, probably looking at their income vs effort to get this in.. if you were a huge factory they would probably be giving you the VIP service.

Like I said.. this should all be run of the mill legal admin type work within existing legislation and guide lines. Would be interesting to know for the existing cables whether access via easements or wayleaves. Wayleaves are access based on an annual sum, and additional payments are due for extras. Wayleave payments are meant to help farmers cover the cost of for example keeping a pole accessible, and for the loss of productivity in terms of crops etc round poles, and are renegotiated I think with the sale of the land, whereas an easement stays.

As I said before, well worth getting a bit of legal advice, its important to know your right with the utility company, an also be versed in some of the legal terminology round this so they know they can't pull the wool over your eyes.

 

[jmbfestool]

I just get the feeling based on what you have said they see this as more hassle than its worth, probably looking at their income vs effort to get this in.. if you were a huge factory they would probably be giving you the VIP service.

Like I said.. this should all be run of the mill legal admin type work within existing legislation and guide lines. Would be interesting to know for the existing cables whether access via easements or wayleaves. Wayleaves are access based on an annual sum, and additional payments are due for extras. Wayleave payments are meant to help farmers cover the cost of for example keeping a pole accessible, and for the loss of productivity in terms of crops etc round poles, and are renegotiated I think with the sale of the land, whereas an easement stays.

As I said before, well worth getting a bit of legal advice, its important to know your right with the utility company, an also be versed in some of the legal terminology round this so they know they can't pull the wool over your eyes.

Yes, I agree. Just doing as much research and asking for advice as possible before getting legal help due to cost etc plus I know from past experience paying solicitors etc for help can actually be a waist of time and money.

Found telephone numbers and email addresses  to ask for advice and ill be giving them a call.

Also found this which seems useful

The RED section on the right is of interest to me.

This is off the electricity act 1989 schedule 3 & 4
[attachimg=#]

 

[jmbfestool]

Also governments wayleaves manager contact details

Wayleaves Manager, Development Consents & Planning Reform,

Department of Energy and Climate Change, 3 Whitehall Place, London SW1A 2HH

e-mail: Robert.Dugon@decc.gsi.gov.uk , Tel: 0300 068 5672

If you require any further information or have any questions regarding necessary wayleaves

 

[jmbfestool]

Copied from government electricity act 1989

1.2
They(electrical company) operate therefore under a regime that reflects their public service role, and the compulsory powers set out in section 10 of, and Schedules 3 and 4 to, the Electricity Act 1989 give the licence holders the requisite powers to enable them to comply with their statutory duties and obligations.

1.3
Electricity companies need permission to install their electric lines and associated equipment (such as poles, pylons, staywires and transformers) on, over or under private land and to have access to that land for the purposes of inspecting, maintaining, repairing, adjusting, altering, replacing or removing the line or equipment. Commonly, electricity companies do this through negotiation of a contractual arrangement with the landowner and/or the occupier of the land; this is called a voluntary wayleave. Electricity companies may also obtain a voluntary easement, which, unlike a voluntary wayleave, is usually permanent (because it confers a right over the land itself, rather than one which can only be enforced against a particular owner or occupier of the land).

1.4
As indicated above, most rights to install an electric line and to keep it installed, together with access to the land, are secured voluntarily between parties. However, if an agreement cannot be reached through negotiation, the electricity companies, who have a public service role to undertake, have access to compulsory procedures. The electricity companies may seek a Compulsory Purchase Order under Schedule 3 to the 1989 Act or a “necessary” wayleave under Schedule 4 to the 1989 Act.

 

[pierreblonde]

JMB if you get nowhere with the electric company this guy sorted it out for me
he is very good
my mother worked for a large firm of solicitors in the north east and they told me it was a very specialized area wayleave agreementsied
i tried a few people then found him

Ben Tibbetts MRICS
Hamer Associates
Electricity Wayleave Consultants

The Innovation Centre
Central Boulevard
Blythe Valley Business Park
Solihull
B90 8AJ

www.hamer-associates.co.uk
tel 0121 5069379
mob 07590 182455

 

[jmbfestool]

JMB if you get nowhere with the electric company this guy sorted it out for me
he is very good
my mother worked for a large firm of solicitors in the north east and they told me it was a very specialized area wayleave agreementsied
i tried a few people then found him

Ben Tibbetts MRICS
Hamer Associates
Electricity Wayleave Consultants

The Innovation Centre
Central Boulevard
Blythe Valley Business Park
Solihull
B90 8AJ

www.hamer-associates.co.uk
tel 0121 5069379
mob 07590 182455

Spoke to Ben this morning. Really friendly helpfully guy.

He basically said western power are just not doing their job.  He said its a very simple case and they should of spoken to the farmer and not left it to us to sort it.

Not only that but because we already paid western power the money they have entered into a contract with use to supply us with the three phase.

He said their wayleaves officer just isn't pulling her weight.

Jmb

 

[oldie]

Your tenacity + FOG = POWER.

Awesome - hope it all works out in a timely fashion.

(was beginning to think that mattfc was correct, like it or not, would have to befriend / seduce the farmer -
well his mother anyway.  [scared]  )

Richard