Precision of TS and guide rail

Ben West

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
23
I have been wondering, both before I got into Festool and since, about how precisely one can make cuts using a TS and the guide rail using only a pencil mark and eyesight to line up the mark and edge of the guide rail. 

So, tonight I conducted a little experiment.  I wanted to make repeated cuts based on pencil marks at a standard distance, then compare the actual length of these cuts to evaluate the precision of the method.  Here's exactly what I did:

1.  Ripped a piece of 5/8 white oak into an approximate 3" x 24" section and checked it for square.  It was.
2.  Used a 24" steel rule and a rule stop from Lee Valley to set an exact and repeatable length for marking (see picture).
3.  Made a mark using the rule and rule stop on the end of the board.
4.  Using an MFT, TS 55, and guide rail, I lined the mark up with the edge of the guide rail, and made the cut.  I didn't fuss over this, and tried to replicate the time and care one would normally take for such a cut.  I placed the board on the table, lowered the guide rail, repositioned the board so the mark appeared to just touch the rubber strip on the rail, and made the cut. 
5.  I repeated this 10 times, labeling each block.
6.  Used a Lee Valley electronic caliper to measure the length of each cut off at its center. 
7.  Analyzed the data.

This is what I found:

1.  The average length was 0.9161 inches in length.
2.  The pieces ranged from 0.9075 to 0.9340 in length (range = 0.0265).
3.  For you real nerds, the standard deviation was 0.00809.

Of course, I'd like to do this 40 or 50 times, but I was getting bored.  But, I think the data are enlightening nevertheless.  I found the mark and align method of cutting to be pretty darn precise, with only 0.0265 difference between my shortest and longest cuts (about 1/38 of an inch for you fraction-heads).  Not good enough for some things, but plenty good enough for lots of things.  And, I suspect that with just a little bit of care, one could always keep the error within this range or smaller. 

By the way, the mark and align method is not only precise, but pretty accurate as well.  I measured the kerf width of the Festool blade at .0920.  I had placed the rule stop on the 1" mark of the ruler.  Adding the average piece length (0.9161) to the kerf width (0.920) gives us 1.0081.  So, on average, I was able to cut within .0081 (1/123 inches) of my intended length.  Not bad!

 
Ben,
This kind of experiment is terrific, and thank you for doing it and posting it to the forum!

I've written here and elsewhere that it is definitely possible to get very precise cuts just using the guide rail and a plunge saw.  People often talk about using the guide rail/plunge saw to "break down" sheet goods, then "cleaning up" on the table saw.  When I first got my Festool equipment, I thought this way too.  But after a little practice, I began to routinely cut all my cabinet parts to final size using the guide rail/plunge saw.  I no longer need to go to the table saw to cut all my cabinet parts to exact size.

Matthew
 
Sounds pretty good for just "eyeballing" it.

If I were going to make a bunch of cuts like that I would use my combination square set to the length and slide the guide rail until it just bumped the end of the ruler on the square.  Then the only deviation would be due to the compressibility of the rubber on the guide rail.

Still, I don't believe I could be much more accurate than you were.

Nice Job!

Loren
 
Interesting idea on the marking knife.  I may try that and see if it improves accuracy.  Any other ideas about improving accuracy of the "eyeballing" method?

On a related point, I'm in the middle of building a cart/table for my father's day present, a Primo Oval ceramic grill (like a Big Green Egg, but different company).  As a result of my experiment with the mark, align, and cut method, I decided to do all my ripping for this project using this method.  Again, I consistently was able to measure, mark, align, and rip my components with 1/32" precision.  Given the design of the table (I'll post pictures when it's done), this was adequately precise and it was very easy to do with little fuss or time required. 

 
I use push pins.

I put 3 right on the line and edge the rail right up to them, then clamp down the work piece, remove the pins and cut
 
I am truly glad you posted this ... an initial concerns point of interest for me about the rail and saw is the precision and accuracy of just using a pencil mark and eyeballs to make a cut.  I reasoned that especially with aging eyes the pencil mark and vision approach might be less than accurate. For those who can see the pencil marks and align thing well, these are encouraging results!
 
henry1224 said:
I use push pins.

I put 3 right on the line and edge the rail right up to them, then clamp down the work piece, remove the pins and cut

I like it -- creating a surface to butt the guide rail against, thereby reducing the error in lining up the guide rail on a line.  All you have to do is make sure your push pins are straight and you should get a pretty perfect line!
Thanks,
Matthew
 
larrysee said:
John Lucas taps a single-edge razor blade lightly into the wood instead of marking it. Might be able to reduce the error spread by easing the rail up to a couple of blades (do remove them before making the cut). See
   http://www.woodshopdemos.com/fes-sc-3.htm

Regards, Larry

Larry, I am glad you found that. I was still looking. For my failing eyesight and a shop that isnt always light at its best where I am cutting, two razor blades cannot be beat. period. you can choose whether you want to use the near or far side of the blade. Butt the guide rail up against the bladess, remove the blades and make your cut.
 
I use a sharp pencil - it makes a difference.  Likely the razor blades would be more accurate, but, in deference to John, I don't carry them around in my apron. I routinely cut to .5mm over 8 feet ripping.  I think the more you do the easier it gets. 

When I cross cut, again the sharp pencil is important and the mark 1 eyeball.  Again, practice is important - the more you do it the better you get, IMO.

I don't have a table saw - would be interested to see how it would stack up...

Good Work!!!  Interesting and thought provoking!
 
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