Prepping cabinets for paint

[Packard]

I am in the process of re-facing my kitchen cabinets.

I am building new doors and drawer fronts.  I am not concerned about painting those.

However, I am cleaning/filling/priming/painting the face frames which are 1990s era honey oak.

My process so far is as follows:

1.  Clean surface with mineral spirts and paper towels.
2.  Sand by hand using 120 grit and followed by 220 grit.
3.  Clean surfaces again using mineral spirits.
4.  Apply a light coat of Seal Coat dewaxed shellac for adhesion.
5.  Apply grain filler.
6.  Hand sand.
7.  Vacuum, wipe down.
8.  Apply water based primer.  (I have been using 1-2-3 but recently switched to Benjamin Moore’s Fresh Start, tinted to match the top coat.
9.  Sand. Vacuum.  Wipe.
10.  Apply two coats of Advance (hand brushed, undiluted).

I have switched the hinges from 1/2” overlay to 1” overlay, so very little of the face frame is exposed.  In theory, I should have been able to go to 1-1/4” overlay, but when I tried that I had interference.  Mostly about 1/2” space between doors and 1/4” above and below doors are left exposed. 

The grain filler worked well, dried hard and sanded to a powder easily.  With so little of the face frame being exposed, I probably could have skipped the grain filler.

Am I missing some steps?  Am I doing overkill? 

I am replacing the end panels, so only the face frame needs to be refinished. 

So far I have 10 linear feet of cabinets completed (uppers and lowers).  I have another 20 feet (uppers and lowers) remaining.

I probably should have asked about this before starting.

PS:  I’ve been using Park’s grain filler (A Rustoleum company), I get this at Home Depot.

It is designed for filling grain and cracks on wood floors.  It comes in colors, but the only one I see is “red oak”.  Unlike spackle, it dries rock hard.  And unlike lightweight spackle, it sands easily to a powder.

I started using 1-2-3 primer (dark gray) to go under black cabinets.  I can’t find the gray anymore, and though the white primer says “tintable”, Neither Lowes or Home Depot will do so. 

I am about to start using Benjamin Moore’s “Fresh Start”, tinted to a very dark gray.  For reasons that they could not explain, they could not tint to a true black. 

 

[bobtskutter]

Are you using Zinsser Bulls Eye 1-2-3?
In the UK I think that is latex based.
Zinsser Bin is their shellac based sealer & primer - I've have much more success with that.
I find Bulls Eye 1-2-3 is thick and goes on as a film, it doesn't sand very well.
Bin is very thin (if it's a new can) penetrates the surface and driers quickly.  It sands well and leaves a nice surface.
I'm normally applying Bin to builders yard plywood when making stuff for my kids rooms.

Regards
bob

 

[peter halle]

I might suggest that you think about substituting denatured alcohol in your step three to make sure any oils are eliminated. Just a thought.

Peter

 

[Cheese]

I'm confused with all the hand sanding. Those face frames would sand a lot faster, easier & flatter with a hard pad on a RO sander. The only hand sanding I'd do is a quick hit of 320/400 after the primer.

I'd also be tempted to try using a tack cloth to wipe it down with after sanding the primer. Try it on a small area first and see if it interferes with the Advance top coat. I've never had issues but I've heard some people have.  [smile]

The final thing I'd try, is applying the top coats with a small 4" foam/velour roller to see if they lay down better. I've had better luck with small rollers as the edge doesn't dry out because the application speed is faster. Again just food for thought and a couple of trial runs may get you better results and speed up the project.  [smile]

 

[Packard]

Are you using Zinsser Bulls Eye 1-2-3?
In the UK I think that is latex based.
Zinsser Bin is their shellac based sealer & primer - I've have much more success with that.
I find Bulls Eye 1-2-3 is thick and goes on as a film, it doesn't sand very well.
Bin is very thin (if it's a new can) penetrates the surface and driers quickly.  It sands well and leaves a nice surface.
I'm normally applying Bin to builders yard plywood when making stuff for my kids rooms.

Regards
bob

1-2-3 is water based.  B-I-N is shellac based and a much heavier cut than Seal Coat.  But I like using Seal Coat as a wipe on finish.  No drips and no clean up.  The odor is gone in a half an hour. 

 

[Packard]

I'm confused with all the hand sanding. Those face frames would sand a lot faster, easier & flatter with a hard pad on a RO sander. The only hand sanding I'd do is a quick hit of 320/400 after the primer.

I'd also be tempted to try using a tack cloth to wipe it down with after sanding the primer. Try it on a small area first and see if it interferes with the Advance top coat. I've never had issues but I've heard some people have.  [smile]

The final thing I'd try, is applying the top coats with a small 4" foam/velour roller to see if they lay down better. I've had better luck with small rollers as the edge doesn't dry out because the application speed is faster. Again just food for thought and a couple of trial runs may get you better results and speed up the project.  [smile]

My random orbital sander is quite aggressive, even at the slowest setting.  I find that I get divots.  Hand sanding does not take very long on face frames (1-1/2” exposed) and I don’t mind hand sanding. 

 

[Packard]

I might suggest that you think about substituting denatured alcohol in your step three to make sure any oils are eliminated. Just a thought.

Peter

I keep denatured alcohol in the shop.  I will try that.  I am not sure why it would do better than mineral spirits, but the process is the same and the cost is very similar. I will try it.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I might suggest that you think about substituting denatured alcohol in your step three to make sure any oils are eliminated. Just a thought.

I agree. For painting applications, you should never clean with mineral spirits, because those are a little bit greasy by themselves and leave a very thin residue on the surface, which prevents proper adhesion of the paint.

 

[Michael Kellough]

I might suggest that you think about substituting denatured alcohol in your step three to make sure any oils are eliminated. Just a thought.

I agree. For painting applications, you should never clean with mineral spirits, because those are a little bit greasy by themselves and leave a very thin residue on the surface, which prevents proper adhesion of the paint.

On the other hand, back in my fine art days we did clean John Chamberlain sculptures with mineral spirits for the above reason. Because they made of crushed car parts.

The Hot Lady From Bristol. 1979

 

[xedos]

I'd advise a third grit between your 120g and 220g sandings.

I'd also suggest using another product besides Advance for cabinets.  Takes too long to cure, especially dark colors.  I know you participated in the last Advance discussion, but still seem set on using it.  That's ok, but there are better waterborne coatings out there for cabinets.

 

[Packard]

I started by using Breakthrough! (PPG), the local dealer went out of business.  I tested Command and Advance, and I seem to lay out a better coat with the Advance.

I do agree that the dark colors take longer to cure (and never get really hard).

The light colors cure hard and reasonably quickly. 

For wear surfaces with dark colors, I have taken to adding a wipe on poly.  It applies quickly and easily and the amber color seems not to show on the dark colors. 

I use Advance because I know the product and I know the results I will get. (And it does take a long time, but I am retired and time is the one thing I have in abundance.)

Also, I trust the advice I get from the Benjamin Moore dealer; I cannot say the same for the Sherwin-Williams dealer whose workers are either uneducated or stupid or both.  At my Sherrington-Williams dealer “past experience has been a predictor of future results”.

So within the B-M spectrum, there seems to be Command and Advance.  I am getting better results with Advance.

 

[Packard]

I'm confused with all the hand sanding. Those face frames would sand a lot faster, easier & flatter with a hard pad on a RO sander. The only hand sanding I'd do is a quick hit of 320/400 after the primer.

I'd also be tempted to try using a tack cloth to wipe it down with after sanding the primer. Try it on a small area first and see if it interferes with the Advance top coat. I've never had issues but I've heard some people have.  [smile]

The final thing I'd try, is applying the top coats with a small 4" foam/velour roller to see if they lay down better. I've had better luck with small rollers as the edge doesn't dry out because the application speed is faster. Again just food for thought and a couple of trial runs may get you better results and speed up the project.  [smile]

After reading this, I will dust off my vibratory sander.  I abandoned it under clear finishes, but is is fine for paint.  I never get damage from that sander (it is slower than the ROS, but probably faster than hand sanding)>

 

[mkasdin]

If the cabinet doors are oily I would wipe them down with some Dawn soapy water or degreaser. When I redo the cabinet doors in the house I would spray them rather than brush them.

 

[Packard]

If the cabinet doors are oily I would wipe them down with some Dawn soapy water or degreaser. When I redo the cabinet doors in the house I would spray them rather than brush them.

I am only refinishing the face frames. 

I am making new doors, drawer fronts and end panels.

In addition the original 1990s cabinets had 1/2” overlay self-closing hinges (Amerock).  I am replacing them with 1” overlay soft close (Blum).  That means only 1/2” space between doors (or drawers). 

In theory, I could go to 1-1/4” overlay, but when I made sample doors there was interference.  I had to cut that back to 1” overlay.

I also reduced the space above and below from 1” to 1/2”.  It gives a more modern appearance. 

One of the big “tells” on repaints is the larger spaces between doors and drawers.  That is an immediate giveaway that the kitchen was a repaint. 

The other reason I am building new doors and drawer fronts, is the original kitchen is in 1990s “honey oak”, with open grain. It is probably less work to build new doors than it would be to refinish with no apparent grain telegraphing through.