Pros and cons of storing fasteners in their original boxes inside systainers

[squall_line]

So I've been trying to get more organized, and one of the areas where I struggle is with fastener storage.  When I grew up my dad had little drawers with various screws, but with little rhyme or reason and only ever a few of each kind.  I think I used drywall screws for all sorts of applications because they were about the only screw that was ever handy.  Since then, I've usually tried to keep nails and screws in their original boxes when I purchased larger boxes of such things, and if I had a specialty need, I only ever bought as many or maybe one more than I needed for a project.

I recently grabbed a Sys-Org M 89 with 22 containers and used that to unpack a bunch of half-full boxes of nails.  I tore off the side of each package (rather than find the scissors) and laid it on top of each little container so I knew what was in each section.

When I got to my boxes of screws, I realized that they fit nicely standing on end in a Sys-Mini III, so that's how they got packed.  The plastic GRK boxes are a bit longer than the paperboard boxes of some of the other screws and don't play nice in the Sys-Mini III without cutting off the retail display flap (which makes them harder to open).

Then I saw [member=66038]Ebuwan[/member] post a picture with a Sys1 TLoc with a GRK label on it, and it reminded me that I wanted to ask about fastener storage.

So, before I get too deep into one method or the other, can anyone offer pros and cons to storing fasteners in their original boxes in Systainers vs in the containers/dividers in a systainer vs another method? 

For reference, I'm a hobbyist, don't often take my tools places (but still occasionally go to a friend or family member's house to help out with a project), and don't yet have a dedicated work space in either the garage or basement.  But I like to be able to find stuff when I need it, and most of my projects have been more outdoor projects (siding, building corbels, railings, garden boxes, etc).

My previous storage was to leave nails and screws in their original packaging and stuff them into plastic ice cream tubs, one for nails and one for screws.  I think I still have half of a 6 pound bag of siding nails in a tub somewhere...

Thanks!

 

[ghhsolutions]

This is what I use for screw storage, it is a DeWALT TSTAK Organizer with additional bins from SwankyStorage. Time is money so I just want to open the lid and grab what I need, worst case I'm moving a top bin to get to the screws in the bottom of the bigger bin. Boxes would do my head in having to open them and then when you buy the next box it is a slightly different size and doesn't fit in the gap left by the last one. I'm gradually moving from TSTAK to Systainer so will be getting some of the organizers at some point and will be using the bins.

 

[mino]

First, you need to distinguish if you need to transport (all of) your screws or you are setting shop.

Systainers/SYS-ORG are VERY VERY expensive if you wanted a full selection but are incredibly handy for transport.

The approach/rules I have settled on (as a DIY and after 20 years of various iterations):

1) have a few screws /10-20 is fine/ of as many types as possible in the shop/flat/garage whatever
- as a hobbyist you usually need just a couple screws of the right type, but if you do not have them on hand a trip to the shop may either be too expensive (time-wise) to no make it worth it or not even possible over a weekend/evening etc., at same you rarely will need more than a few screws, so diversity is more important than quantity

2) have them organized, no mixing, as DYI you do NOT have the time to waste searching for the right screw length any more than a prod has

3) for the most used, have a bigger quantity - which you will keep separate from the main "lots of types but few of each" collection
- if you do not follow this rule, you will find it impossible to settle on the size of the storage bins - as they will always be either too big or too small, and rearranging is the last thing you want, you want to buy a full selection and never need to touch the bin until you use a screw from them

What this means in practice is you need a CHEAP BUT PRACTICAL bins solution. Something that does not need to be able to survive heavy transport/use but is practical in a shop setting AND is space-efficient.

In practice, expect to need a couple hundred bins for stuff. My current collection is at about 500 bins for screws/nuts/bolts and such and is just about right to cover all the bases I end up needing.

Now, what does this mean ?
Say you go SYS-ORG for the "transportable solution". Great. The you will want to make (deep) drawers which will be able to accept the same bins - e.g. 3D-printed - so you can have easy-access full selection in the shop/garage while taking advantage if the SYS-ORG to take those you may need on a project in the house, at friend etc.

My 2 cents.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I think organiser boxes with clear lids are the best way to store them and quickly find what you're looking for.

But then again, I got so many screws, I can't keep up with organising them. I got tons of organiser boxes, but also tons of screws in their boxes. I once bought two systainers from a retired contractor filled to the brim with different sizes of screws in boxes, and they're still in there. It is a bit irritating to sift through the pile everytime I need something from those systainers, but it still works.

I have one organiser box with a clear lid that fits inside a systainer and I call that my "action pack". Whenever I need to go somewhere for a job I fill that organiser with the screws I need. 

 

[squall_line]

Boxes would do my head in having to open them and then when you buy the next box it is a slightly different size and doesn't fit in the gap left by the last one.

Very good point!

Now, what does this mean ?
Say you go SYS-ORG for the "transportable solution". Great. The you will want to make (deep) drawers which will be able to accept the same bins - e.g. 3D-printed - so you can have easy-access full selection in the shop/garage while taking advantage if the SYS-ORG to take those you may need on a project in the house, at friend etc.

Also some very good points about having stuff on hand instead of needing to go out and find it.  Those trips add up in a hurry and are quite annoying...  I love hearing your thought process on it!

I quoted this last section so that I could see if I understood what you mean...

It sounds like the idea is to have a bunch of drawers that hold the sub-unit of whatever inside container you want, and then only one or two of the transporters in case they need to travel?  Definitely a good point that the transport case is the expensive part of the equation (other than the fasteners themselves).

I have one organiser box with a clear lid that fits inside a systainer and I call that my "action pack". Whenever I need to go somewhere for a job I fill that organiser with the screws I need. 

I definitely like the idea of a "go box" that can just get filled with what's needed for the small task at hand.

 

[johnyhuh]

I use Festool Sortainer SYS 4 TL (200119) with labels outside and inside. Stores all sorts of screws/fasteners. Another one for all the nails as well.

 

[mino]

It sounds like the idea is to have a bunch of drawers that hold the sub-unit of whatever inside container you want, and then only one or two of the transporters in case they need to travel?  Definitely a good point that the transport case is the expensive part of the equation (other than the fasteners themselves).

Basically, Yes.

Last year I completed a big purchase and reorganization with standardizing on one type of portable "plates" with individual removable bins and found out that while great for "can transport and move around" it is not practical in the shop setting as I always have to pull out the plate and find a place to put it on. I have these as slide-in semi-drawers but the plates having a lid means I cannot (easily) access the bins without remove the whole slide and placing it on a table.

So am switching to a shallow (but deep 25" for capacity) drawer solution on full-extension slides where I will move most of my "assortment" mini bins from the current solution and keep a few of the original boxes for transporting a selection I need for a project.

The idea is that it makes sense to have a real variety of screws from all feasible types in a shop, so do not have to waste time when I need two or three here and there. But it makes little sense to have it fully portable as that compromises the easy-access and - mainly forces me to consume valuable workspace so I can place the bin trays there to pick things form them.

With shallow drawers, I do not need lids above the bins, so will just open the drawer and pick a screw I need, if needed can even keep drawer opened while elaborate which screws to use. But will not end up consuming scarce workspace area by having multiple trays with bins opened - I usually need 2 or 3 sizes of screws on a project.

The moral being, you definitely want a GOOD solution for transport-ability which should use individual bins. Plates without bins are a PITA. Avoid. Exception being very small (think

 

[Coen]

I have flat steel boxes with the plastic containers, less wasted space, three times cheaper while also being bigger inside and having a much larger loading capacity.

Will post a pic later.

If you completely stuff a Sys organiser with screws it becomes too heavy anyway.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Fastener storage will always be a struggle, unless space and cost are irrelevant.

Since the space required to store 100 M3x10 screws is not the same as the space to 100 M6x40 screws you’ll never find a space efficacy to store both together. But if you did manage to avoid wasted space inside a container big enough to hold an assortment of job-sized quantity’s of large screws it would be heavy.

As far as I can tell, there is no (full spectrum) Goldilocks fastener storage system.

 

[Coen]

[attachimg=1]

^Not the current order, but the idea is the same. That metal box is made by Allit, size is 440x370 and the bins are 54x54x45 (LxWxH) (the red ones) and multiples of that. Including delivery it runs me about 26 euros per box if bought with at least two at a time. That is already including the assortment of bins.

I got ticked off at not having the right screw one too many times and bought a bunch of galvanised Woodies (a NL brand) screws with Torx head; all with partial thread from 3,5x20 up to 5x100 plus the ones with full thread (3x16 to 5x20) plus all with cilinder head (3x16 to 5x50).

Now recently I had the issue of not having the right stainless screw (cilinderhead), but since Woodies is lacking the stainless cilinderhead screws in their assortment I bought those from Spax. Still have to decide if I divide those over the current boxes or that I make a separate stainless-dedicated box.

I think just a bit after I bought these boxes Festool came out with the Systainer Organiser. They dropped a bit in price, but will still cost >2x more. They are stackable... but if loaded to the max I dont think I trust the plastic or single T-loc latch with the weight... would be a pain to sort out the contents if the lid fails...

Note; these boxes don't travel that often, but if they do... at the bottom of the car.

Since the space required to store 100 M3x10 screws is not the same as the space to 100 M6x40 screws you’ll never find a space efficacy to store both together. But if you did manage to avoid wasted space inside a container big enough to hold an assortment of job-sized quantity’s of large screws it would be heavy.

Yes, they become quite heavy. But I think I did pretty good at the space efficiency.  [cool] Only the very small stuff doesn't fill the smallest bin.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Well done Coen! That’s the best I’ve seen and a great range. It’s nice that Allit makes some small bins. Looks like you could even use a couple half that size.

 

[Coen]

Well done Coen! That’s the best I’ve seen and a great range. It’s nice that Allit makes some small bins. Looks like you could even use a couple half that size.

Thanks.
Yes, for the very smallest. But that would also make it harder to get to the bottom. Although depth is limited anyway. I see now I made an error in the previous post. I have the 45mm high bins, but they also sell them in 63mm. They also have a box with two layers of the 45mm bins, but getting to the bottom layer is just a pita, so I opted for separate smaller boxes.

Some sizes didn't fit their bin, so there is still a big cardboard box with left-overs in their original packaging..

They also sell gray bins, they are 1/3 longer than the green bins. Would fit 200mm screws.

Drawer cabinets are also available... but pricey.

Half-size boxes (the outer metal thing) are also available. They are 4x6 (red boxes) vs 6x8 for the ones I have. Would make it easier to transport.

I thought about switching over to the Systainer Organisers, but their bins seem to stand very unstable and in the end it would cost me way more space to store. And if full... can't be transported stacked anyway. Well, yeah, you can stack them in the car, but you can't carry a bunch of those stacked because it would be too heavy.

Note that in the Allit catalog, they list the height of the box I have with the handle flipped up. Because of the lower height the handle can't fold fully flush without protruding to top or bottom. That is why they list 70mm for the boxes with 63mm bins and 65 for the boxes with 45mm bins, but 49mm is more the real height.

 

[squall_line]

I checked for Allit distributors in the US; they're tough to come by, apparently.  And the one seller on Amazon US shows pictures of ALL of the metal boxes and all of the different insert configurations with each listing, so there's no way to tell what you're actually buying without some deep dives into the part numbers.

Speaking of deep dives, even looking at Allit on Amazon can take you down a pretty deep rabbit hole of all of the other manufacturer's offerings: Bosch, DeWalt, Stanley, Stalwart (a Stanley rebrand, or vice/versa), etc...

All of this discussion has been really beneficial!

 

[Coen]

Well yes, their pics and descriptions are horrible. But once you figured it out...

This confusion is the same with the catalog. 11 SKU's, 9 pics... 3 pics used twice (1 time incorrect) and the other 2 pics depicting two SKU's still show something similar, not the same. Eg the empty box.. there is one pic for the empty box in both sizes... and the half-size empty box being symbolised by a box full of bins..  [sad]

 

[nclemmons]

Check out Schallercorporation.com - they make plastic boxes in various sizes for screws, nails, and other organization applications.  Also offer rails to mount them to a wall, or you can organized them in a drawer or other carrier.

They are very cost effective and give you flexibility on organization, selection, size, etc.
https://www.schallercorporation.com/view-all-products

 

[bertv]

I have a really complicated relationship with screws, esp because of my everchanging preferences for the 'driver' — I used to be a fan of Pozidriv, but the last few years I am leaning more towards Torx and its derivatives. That has led to an extensive collection of a lot of different screws that I try to keep organised.

At first I used the Festool systainers with the coloured boxes, but after the grey ones appeared, switched to those — even resorting to buying extra’s of those to use in the drawers of what used to be my materials cabinet:

[attachimg=1]

The older ones found a place in the drawer below:

[attachimg=2]

A couple of years ago I discovered the Auer system and that has been a godsend. I currently own 30 or so assortment boxes (they have the same footprint as systainers), and 7 of those are devoted to screws. I try to group them in kind (Slot/Philips/Pozidriv/Torxz/Woodscrews) and with ascending sizes (top left to bottom right), with different materials indicated by different colours of the boxes. Two examples:

[attachimg=3]

[attachimg=4]

That being said, there are still boxes full of screws in various locations around the shop that haven’t found a home yet...

 

[Coen]

So many different systems... and all with just slightly differently sized bins...  [mad]

The Systainers with coloured boxes... those bins exist in two sizes too. One for classic Systainers, one for T-Loc..

 

[mac sparrow]

Yes there are loads of ways to do it.  I like the idea of having an "inventory" that you keep in the workshop or van with say a sticker on it with a reference number then have the boxes you take to go mobile with the same sticker/reference number on them; Box123 in inventory fills up Box123 mobile, if that makes sense.  I can't think of a time I've needed an entire box of screws for a task but I realise some guys will go through boxes a day putting down floors etc.  These are specific cases I feel, if you know that's your task for the day, you'll plan accordingly and take some boxes of screws with you to site in say one of the systainer toolboxes.

Also, don't be afraid to find a cheaper fixing storage solution with suitable dimensions that will fit inside a systainer.  Not ideal but still allows you to be mobile without great expense.  Tanos used to and maybe still do have cases that would stack vertically in the systainer.  When you open the systainer lid you then see 4 x handles of the storage cases, simply pull out the one you want.  It would be very simple to make your own divider as well.  I have 1 x rack systainer which uses Raaco service cases and they slide into the front of a systainer, you may have seen them.  I'd like one more rack systainer but they are hideously expensive.  Many people don't like the plastic of Raaco service cases but they are extremely cheap to buy and if you work alone they may be good enough.  [member=42009]gunnyr[/member] van build utilises Raaco service cases effectively.

The Tanos storage cases I'm talking about here:https://www.leevalley.com/en-gb/sho...tanos-storage-case-with-dividers?item=68K4373  Imagine 4 of these in a systainer 4/5? stacked vertically, or horizontally if you really wanted to.  I'm struggling to find a photo of the complete Tanos solution.

 

[nclemmons]

[member=26410]mackenzie[/member] - I have six of those Tanos units from Lee Valley and they work nice.  And they will stack in a Systainer, though I just have them in a cabinet.  The downside of them is you take the entire case rather than just the container that’s the size you need.  But they’ve served me well and are priced right too!

I did cut some plexiglas for extra dividers on mine.

 

[Stan Tillinghast]

neilc--Thanks for the post on the Schaller Corporation website. They are indeed cost-effective; and they have a drawer builder feature, I priced  a toolbox drawer 13 inches wide, 19 inches deep with 21 red boxes 1" deep of varying sizes, came to about  $14.
(Of course shipping doubles the price for that small order.)

I'm thinking of them more for small tools than for hardware right now.