prototypes

[AlexThePalex]

I mean look at the buzz this thread generated, everyone loved the idea of these future concepts so why not get a bigger bang for your buck and ask 10000 people instead of 500

I agree with you that that is a form of short-sightedness, but it is a calculated short-sightedness. First, it would be very impractical for a business to work with such a large group of people as you suggest. It would cost tremendous loads of money. And you just complained yourself about the development costs. But second, there is a science called Statistics, and they have developed all kinds of instruments like surveys and mathematical formulas to calculate what a representative group of people is. And it's really not necessary to question such a large group as 10000 people to get an understanding of what's useful or not. 

Oh and by the way, I doubt they would experiment and discard 20 tools before they get one out. That would be way too costly also. When they go out to customers with the tools they showed you, you can bet that they are in an advanced stage of development already. Most concepts die when they're still only on paper.
 

 

[EdL]

I wouldn't hold off a tool purchase based on these prototypes. As Christian said these tools, if they do make it to retail, could be years away.  

I'm guessing you directed this at me.  ;D
I've currently got several drills and impacts that share batteries, I'm in no rush. What I've got works well, a Festool would be a "luxury" item. I'm also a patient shopper, I can wait for a good thing.  ;D

That said, I don't know about a large market for a "super domino" machine, but impact drivers are fast becoming as common as the cordless drill. I would guess Festool doesn't want to miss out on this market. IME, people tend to buy cordless tools that use a common battery, it would be logical for Festool to exploit this trend.

Ed

 

[Tezzer]

That said, I don't know about a large market for a "super domino" machine,

Thats what they said about the Domino when it first came out. Not sure about your side of the world, but Down Under when it was just released, the amount negativity and crap thrown at it was (in the woodwork community) huge. Most said the market would be to small and specialised. Now look at it, its going gang busters. The big Domzilla would be a little smaller in the size of the market place, but it would still be a hot seller.

And im a bit miffed the President and CEO of Tooltechnic Systems would have a go at the OP. If a Festool rep and a rep from Festool Germany goes to a job site with a new prototype, and obviously didn?t make them sign a confidentiality agreement or at least verbally ask them to do the right thing and keep it quiet, then why shouldn?t they post it here  ???  ???

[Edited for accuracy]

 

[fshanno]

Three more things.....

1.  The fence is going to be beefed up so that it can't wrack and it can't slip.

2.  Festool will provide kits containing router bits to cut the Domino edge profile for all the Domino bit sizes.  There will be value priced kits for both Dominoes.

And here's number three.  A personnel favorite of mine.

Wait for it......

3.  There are three width settings right?  Well on the big boy there will be a fourth.  Yea, you guessed it.  ZERO!  We do dowels now!  Why dowels?  Furniture repair for one thing.  For another thing try this.  How about a shallow plunge drill press that can go anywhere?   How about holes in stuff that are plum and true and perfect?  How about a drill WITH DUST COLLECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You get what I'm saying right?  The Domino would make a FANTASTIC DRILL!  Obviously we're going to need a lot more bits.  And we're going to need imperial bits as well.  This is great isn't it?  Sometimes I scare myself.  If you read my earlier post about the bench top mortising platform then you've probably already taken it to another logical conclusion.  That gizmo is also a freaking drill press!  It's for wood and it has it's limit but what it doesn't have is a pile of chips all over the place.  And while we're at it will go ahead and make a 35mm bit for hinges.

I've got a lot more.  Shall I go on?

 

[sw1211]

And im a bit miffed one of the Mods would have a go at the OP. If a Festool rep and a rep from Festool Germany goes to a job site with a new prototype, and obviously didn?t make them sign a confidentiality agreement or at least verbally ask them to do the right thing and keep it quiet, then why shouldn?t they post it here  ???  ???

I don't see that Peter or Forrest (mods) had a go at the OP, Peter moved the thread, no negativity there. No post from Forrest. Unless something they posted was deleted.  It does appear the beginning of the thread has been changed, probably by L2?

 

[Tezzer]

I don't see that Peter or Forrest (mods) had a go at the OP, Peter moved the thread, no negativity there. No post from Forrest. Unless something they posted was deleted.  It does appear the beginning of the thread has been changed, probably by L2?

After this, the OP deleted his own post.

In the interest of developing tools that are relevant to all markets around the world, Festool does conduct field trials of different concepts and prototypes. 
These tests allow us to determine the viability of ideas and solutions to practical issues. 

We normally ask the test customers who see prototypes not to write about it on the Internet. Why? The projects are still in the prototype phase and it isn't even
clear if they will ever become real products. And even if we decide to build them one day, we are still at least 2 years away from a market introduction.

In this case it seems we weren't clear enough about not posting on the Internet.

At this point it doesn't make sense to speculate about what is coming or get excited about it, because the product might not even come or might look
completely different. Knowing that information like this might show up on the Internet, we also don't reveal everything at those customer interviews.

Christian

 

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

It's like going to the local beauty shop here. [big grin]

 

[Tezzer]

It's like going to the local beauty shop here. [big grin]

Never been to one. You will have to tell us all what its like  ;D

 

[score0matic]

[poke] [poke]

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

A man needs to get his hair did, once in a while, right? [big grin]

 

[Bob Marino]

I mean look at the buzz this thread generated, everyone loved the idea of these future concepts so why not get a bigger bang for your buck and ask 10000 people instead of 500

I agree with you that that is a form of shortsightedness, but it is a calculated shortsightedness. First, it would be very impractical for a business to work with such a large group of people as you suggest. It would cost tremendous loads of money. And you just complained yourself about the development costs. But second, there is a science called Statistics, and they have developed all kinds of instruments like surveys and mathematical formulas to calculate what a representative group of people is. And it's really not necessary to question such a large group as 10000 people to get an understanding of what's useful or not. 

Oh and by the way, I doubt they would experiment and discard 20 tools before they get one out. That would be way too costly also. When they go out to customers with the tools they showed you, you can bet that they are in an advanced stage of development already. Most concepts die when they're still only on paper.
   

Alex,

I don't know if it shortsightedness at all, but do agree with the impracticability and lack of necessity of such a large sample - even though I THINK EVERYONE WANTS TO SEE WHAT'S NEW. I sure do. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in 2003, Festool invited a group of  dealers (called Independent Sales Agents at that time) to tour their facility/factory in Germany and all of us were impressed not only with the actual manufacturing of the tools, but also with the amount of R&D that went into the tools prior to development.

A couple of years later, my Manager and that same Domino"inventor" (sorry I  am forgetting his name - but he is the guy in the original Festool domino DVD) brought the Domino to my shop, did a quick but amazing demo and asked for the names of a few of my cabinet maker customers and paid them a visit; looking for their feedback on the tool. Needles to say, they were wowed.  It was all "fairly" quite but I don't think it was at the level of "signing a contract" - it was understood this was a prototype, so no camera's please. But then again, this was before the Internet was as large as it is today and before there was the FOG. Perhaps with the OP here, the rep didn't make it clear or the OP misunderstood the rep - about posting - either way no major biggie at all. However, I totally agree with Christian and Festool's reasoning with keeping these types of things confidential  - it can create a buzz that just may not pan out, a demand for an item that ain't comin'. 

Bob

 

[Forrest Anderson]

And im a bit miffed one of the Mods would have a go at the OP.

And I am a bit miffed that you should jump to conclusions like that!

I have not approached (never mind "had a go at") the Original Poster, and as far as I know neither has Peter.

Forrest. 

 

[Tezzer]

My bad. Suppose it had something to do with the big green name with Festool employee beneath it that gave me the impression Christian has an official position with the running of this forum and was speaking on behalf of Festool. It certainly came across that way.

 

[jonny round boy]

Christian O was speaking on behalf of Festool - but he's not a moderator on this forum.

The moderators are Peter Halle and Forrest Anderson.

 

[peter halle]

And im a bit miffed one of the Mods would have a go at the OP.

And I am a bit miffed that you should jump to conclusions like that!

I have not approached (never mind "had a go at") the Original Poster, and as far as I know neither has Peter.

Forrest.   

Forrest is correct.  I did NOT approach the OP and try to influence him in any way.  I did move the thread early on and clearly posted what my actions would be and why. 

Peter

 

[Tezzer]

Forrest is correct.  I did NOT approach the OP and try to influence him in any way.  I did move the thread early on and clearly posted what my actions would be and why.  

Peter

I know. Forrest already said that and i replied

 

[AlexThePalex]

I don't know if it shortsightedness at all, but do agree with the impracticability and lack of necessity of such a large sample - even though I THINK EVERYONE WANTS TO SEE WHAT'S NEW. I sure do.

Well, when I said shortsightedness, I meant it in a philosophical way. To really get rid of it you would need to include larger samples, like EVERYBODY for instance. But from a pure practical viewpoint you have to take a (relatively) small group as your test subjects, with the risk of loosing valuable opinions, but for the benefit of making it manageable and affordable.  I'm pretty sure that in practice, with the number of people companies like Festool do approach, they get a pretty decent understanding of the market.

And about the idea that everybody want's to see what's new, well that's true of course. but at that point, the (future) customer and the company have different interests. It's like the kids who go to the toy store with daddy. The kids run all over the place, asking "Can I have this dad, can I have that?". They want to take the whole toy store back home if possible. But it's daddy who has to look into is wallet and see what's really possible and what not. Suffice it to say, the kids are not coming home with the entire toy store.  [laughing]

 

[waho6o9]

Three more things.....

1.  The fence is going to be beefed up so that it can't wrack and it can't slip.

2.  Festool will provide kits containing router bits to cut the Domino edge profile for all the Domino bit sizes.  There will be value priced kits for both Dominoes.

And here's number three.  A personnel favorite of mine.

Wait for it......

3.  There are three width settings right?  Well on the big boy there will be a fourth.  Yea, you guessed it.  ZERO!  We do dowels now!  Why dowels?  Furniture repair for one thing.  For another thing try this.  How about a shallow plunge drill press that can go anywhere?   How about holes in stuff that are plum and true and perfect?  How about a drill WITH DUST COLLECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You get what I'm saying right?  The Domino would make a FANTASTIC DRILL!  Obviously we're going to need a lot more bits.  And we're going to need imperial bits as well.  This is great isn't it?  Sometimes I scare myself.  If you read my earlier post about the bench top mortising platform then you've probably already taken it to another logical conclusion.  That gizmo is also a freaking drill press!  It's for wood and it has it's limit but what it doesn't have is a pile of chips all over the place.  And while we're at it will go ahead and make a 35mm bit for hinges.

I've got a lot more.  Shall I go on?

Please go on.  Ideas rock.

 

[awdriven]

I was excited to hear about the (potential) new tools.

I think it's reasonable that Festool may want to keep this information mostly confidential. They could be at a competitive disadvantage if other tool manufacturers have a hint at what Festool may be planning to bring to market in the future.

Some people may also defer the purchase of currently available tools if they thought that something better may be coming in the future. For example, maybe someone who might have bought a new T15 drill tomorrow might now wait until this prototype impact+drill comes to market. I can't blame festool for wanting people to buy the product that is available today, and not to wait for something that may NEVER come to market.

Before the internet, this kind of information travelled much more slowly and not as widely. I applaud the forum management for leaving this thread open.

Lets keep the conversation positive - I'm sure we will have some cool new product introductions coming from Festool this year. (I've got fingers crossed for the CMS! (Router + TS55 modules)

 

[Mac]

Well said, Awdriven, you put that well and I agree.

Rick