prototypes

[fshanno]

But what about holes?  You can't make holes with a Domino.  Try this.  How about a sub base for the router that has two pins spaced the same distance as the Domino?  
Then you could use the same templates for holes and mortises!  You could even mix and match!  Mortises for shelf pins and system holes for hinges with the same template!

[attachimg=1]

The LR32?  Absolutely, a fabulous tool.  But let's not limit ourselves.

 

[John Stevens]

But what about holes?  You can't make holes with a Domino.  Try this.  How about a sub base for the router that has two pins spaced the same distance as the Domino?

Despite the lack of DC, I'd sooner use a drill with a 5mm Vix bit and a jig with a single row of holes.  Less setup time, and besides, I prefer to buy jigs rather than make them, all other things being equal.  But hey, some folks prefer chocolate and others vanilla.

Regards,

John

 

[Kevin Stricker]

OK, I can see some benefits.  Practically speaking though you will need a guide strip on the face of the template otherwise you will spend more time getting your pins to line up than you will actually boring holes.  The challenge of course is that you have to lift the domino from the piece between every set of holes, then set it back down (past the last mortice) then line up to find the next set of holes.

Personally the idea that Frank had of having a table mounted stand for the Domino with maybe a lever or foot control seems like the ideal situation.  Now you can use a long fence and preset stops, and you will have much greater accuracy.  I'm guessing this is already available in Europe right?

 

[frehouseremdlin]

I know that im new to festool, but i would be , along with many more, standing in line to grab one. Even with the t15 there is not much that comes close to an impact when you really need one. And with the festool engineering , it'll be probably the most impressive impact yet!

Brett

 

[James Watriss]

I'm all wound up after reading 5 pages.

On R&D and business models...I've bought too many name brand tools where I couldn't get parts or accessories or help of any kind at the place I bought it or elsewhere, I'm completely sold on Festool's paradigm of making and selling fewer tools that last longer, which would also mean for them that they have fewer models in the field to service. The benefit to us, even if we can't go rumpus in the toy store with Daddy, is that Festool has parts available for everything.

I read a complaint on the board earlier in the week about an MFT that arrived damaged. And the OP's biggest complaint was that after he had talked directly to the manufacturer (!!!!!) it took a week to get the part. It's a viable complaint in the Festool world. It's a wet dream fantasy to get that level of service from almost any other tool manufacturer out there.

And Festool's accessories are not only available and accessible... they're actually worth the money, because they typically add a whole new dimension of functionality to whatever tool they're used with. I don't want stripped down, I don't want dumbed down, I don't even want the price down... because I don't mind helping to support Festool's R&D sandbox back in Germany. It's like giving to your local temple or church, safely and conscientiously in the faith that the institution you're helping to support will give back to the community and the world. And I know that anything I buy from them, will be more than I expect or want or maybe even deserve.

That's my rant on the company. But I still have to reply to Frank. You mad genius you. I propose to the moderators that we move Frank's proposals and ideas into a new thread, as they're getting really tangled up in this one.

 

[James Watriss]

Dear Frank,

You mad-man. You wonderful thing.

-I love your idea of the Domi-drill.
-I also dig the idea of making the domino work with the LR 32... but I'm thinking, after listening to your suggestion, that a dedicated LR32 compatible fence would be the way to go, simply to take some of the alignment issues out of the picture.
-I hear you with the idea of longer bits for templates, but I think the added length would be less stable for some uses, and also result in wider slots due to the added back and forth sweep.

-Your bench mounted idea sounds like a grand CMS... but I think that in combination with the LR 32 system, it could be even better... imagine a table with a pedal-actuated ratchet system that would lock into the holes in the LR32 rail and not only drill the holes, but feed the board along. rail gets clamped to the board, and that assembly gets mounted, rail-down, into the mechanism, with the domino under the table's surface. Pedal push down, the domino comes up. Pedal comes up, the domino retracts, and the board feeds. Obviously, the actions would have to be separate, so you're not trying to feed the domino while the board is moving. Same table, mount the domino differently from above, in drill mode, for your drill press idea.

But I'm seeing other options where there's a cable hooked into the table-specific fence. Something like a bicycle cable and housing to actuate the plunge. Why? Because the domino is mounted in a sort of over-arm bracket that's very rigid, but cantilevered in such a way that you can drill very far into the expanse of a panel, far enough that a typical drill press mechanism wouldn't be very practical. But a cable and housing idea that operates an actuating domino fence would be seriously choice.

Not only that, it would also enable you to use the domi-drill for the function you clearly thought about but didn't put down. Pocket screws. Domino mounted at an angle on the far side of this same CMS module, at an angle. hands hold the work in place, pedal goes down, cables actuate the fence, domino drills pocket holes.

{sound of racket hitting tennis ball}

Your turn. You Geeky Weirdo You.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

1.  Rig the Domino to work on the LR32 system.

Your idea is better than what I'm about to suggest, but if you want something right now, try this.  Use the LR32 to make two rows of 5mm holes spaced exactly 74mm apart in a thin piece of ply or MDF.  Register the 5mm pins in the face of the Domi in those holes.  This will orient the dominos perpendicular to the line of holes, which is what I would want if using dominos in place of shelf pins.  (The bit will bore right through the jig the first time it's used between each pair of holes.)

If you want this type of jig to enable you to rotate the orientation of the dominos somewhat, make a row of 5mm holes on each of two pieces of ply or mdf and join them together so they can be adjusted vertically and horizontally relative to each other.  Hard to describe what I mean, but with your imagination, you'll come up with a better idea, I'm sure.

Regards,

John

John, I have no doubt that you and Rick Christopherson could create a slideable plate having a rotary positionable Domino mount for use with an LR 32 Guide Rail.  As other writers in this thread have said, among other applications, this would be excellent for making louvred panels.

Dave R.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Enough of that, back to the Domino.

Here's a little prototype of the DomiTemplate

[attachimg=1]

I made a couple of rows of holes in a piece of 1/2" melamine spaced on 32mm centers for the Domino pins.  Seems to work fine.  There are indents on the bottom plate at both pins that help with alignment.  It goes fast and it's solid, a very stable and comfortable plunge.  Obviously this is an old style Domino.  This method wouldn't work with the paddle style fence.

For casework the sky is the limit with this concept.  It represents a high degree of repeatable accuracy.  The obvious con is the loss of plunge depth.

Fshanno,

Here's an idea to try as a derivative development of your basic jig concept.   Make a pair of identical hinges with pin holes at their ends which exactly match the distance between the pins on the base of the original Domino machines  (the same spacing as the holes in your original jig).  Equip those hinges with pins of diameter corresponding the the Domino machine pins.  Now rip your original jig in two lengthwise and cut away most of the material outside of the rows of pin holes (the slotted areas).  Then join the ripped pin hole jig halves with your hinges.  Now you can offset one row of pin holes relative to the other by shifting the pin hole jig halves that form a parallelogram together with your hinges.  Add a locking mechanism, e.g. use threaded rod for the "pin" holes at the extreme ends of your parallelogram jig, and you can Domino away any angle within reason that you choose.  Add a perpendicular board under one of the jig halves and you can clamp your jig to some workpieces.  Or drill a couple of pairs of holes or rout on or multiple lengthwise T-slots on the underside of the halves of your parallelogram jig for use with the angled steel pieces that come with an MFS set to facilitate registration from the side edge of a workpiece and clamping to a workpiece.

Sorry, if I was adept at using Sketch-Up, I'd provide some drawings of this parallelogram jig concept.

Dave R.

>

 

[fshanno]

Dear Frank,

You mad-man. You wonderful thing.

-I love your idea of the Domi-drill.
-I also dig the idea of making the domino work with the LR 32... but I'm thinking, after listening to your suggestion, that a dedicated LR32 compatible fence would be the way to go, simply to take some of the alignment issues out of the picture.
-I hear you with the idea of longer bits for templates, but I think the added length would be less stable for some uses, and also result in wider slots due to the added back and forth sweep.

-Your bench mounted idea sounds like a grand CMS... but I think that in combination with the LR 32 system, it could be even better... imagine a table with a pedal-actuated ratchet system that would lock into the holes in the LR32 rail and not only drill the holes, but feed the board along. rail gets clamped to the board, and that assembly gets mounted, rail-down, into the mechanism, with the domino under the table's surface. Pedal push down, the domino comes up. Pedal comes up, the domino retracts, and the board feeds. Obviously, the actions would have to be separate, so you're not trying to feed the domino while the board is moving. Same table, mount the domino differently from above, in drill mode, for your drill press idea.

But I'm seeing other options where there's a cable hooked into the table-specific fence. Something like a bicycle cable and housing to actuate the plunge. Why? Because the domino is mounted in a sort of over-arm bracket that's very rigid, but cantilevered in such a way that you can drill very far into the expanse of a panel, far enough that a typical drill press mechanism wouldn't be very practical. But a cable and housing idea that operates an actuating domino fence would be seriously choice.

Not only that, it would also enable you to use the domi-drill for the function you clearly thought about but didn't put down. Pocket screws. Domino mounted at an angle on the far side of this same CMS module, at an angle. hands hold the work in place, pedal goes down, cables actuate the fence, domino drills pocket holes.

{sound of racket hitting tennis ball}

Your turn. You Geeky Weirdo You.

No, I didn't think about pocket screws but that's a very good idea!  This new Domino would seem to have the plunge capacity.

The key to hole boring is the zero width setting.  Could it be done and would Festool be interested in doing it on a future Domino machine?  They would have a mortising and a doweling and a hole boring machine.  Would they be interested in a variable speed control that would be enabled when the width setting is zero?  I assume the prototype didn't have it or it would have been mentioned.  I believe that boring holes with a router is frowned upon except in specialized applications like shelf pins.  

So how about this stationary platform for the Domino for mortising face frame and door parts and such?   Here you go.

[attachimg=1]

Stops and clamping provide super accuracy for face frames and door parts without the fussiness of alignment and fence issues we face now.  You don't have to handle the Domino between mortises.  Just clamp the work piece (which we almost always do anyway) turn it on and plunge.  Less fatigue.  And just pop the Domino out and back in it's standard fence for traditional use.

There would of course have to be some mechanism for sighting and setting stops but it could be worked out I think.

 

[sw1211]

No, I didn't think about pocket screws but that's a very good idea!  This new Domino would seem to have the plunge capacity.

The key to hole boring is the zero width setting.  Could it be done and would Festool be interested in doing it on a future Domino machine?  They would have a mortising and a doweling and a hole boring machine.  Would they be interested in a variable speed control that would be enabled when the width setting is zero?  I assume the prototype didn't have it or it would have been mentioned.  I believe that boring holes with a router is frowned upon except in specialized applications like shelf pins.  

So how about this stationary platform for the Domino for mortising face frame and door parts and such?   Here you go.

[attachimg=1]

Stops and clamping provide super accuracy for face frames and door parts without the fussiness of alignment and fence issues we face now.  You don't have to handle the Domino between mortises.  Just clamp the work piece (which we almost always do anyway) turn it on and plunge.  Less fatigue.  And just pop the Domino out and back in it's standard fence for traditional use.

There would of course have to be some mechanism for sighting and setting stops but it could be worked out I think.

There's also this from Woodhaven

 

[peter halle]

Notice:  This thread has been split.  If you are looking for the discussions regarding dealers, Ebay, or Bing cashback programs  please follow this link:  Link to Split Thread

Thank you for your understanding.

Peter Halle - Moderator

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Keep the pressure on Festool to add the "no oscillation" boring feature to all Domino machines.  This was raised to Festool quite some time ago and Festool management at that time dismissed it as an unneeded feature.  At that time there were focused on promoting the advantages to a Domino loose tenon which resists rotation.  I'm glad to read they got the message while designing the mega Domino machine.

Dave R.

 

[fshanno]

There's also this from Woodhaven

Very interesting.  Much cheaper than what I'm suggesting.  It looks like it doesn't lock the Domino down unless you use the screw holes in the bottom.  Since it sits flat it seems like you would be limited in material width.  Better than nothing.  I suppose you could rig something like this on an MFT.  I might give that a try.  Thanks for the link.