Question about CT15 auto-tool power outlet

[DeformedTree]

Well, what they are saying is what should be expected.  If you put a 15A receptacle on something, it sure as heck better be able to do 15amps. It is now an extension of the wall. Just like if you had a 15A (nema 5-15) wall outlet, but wired it up where it could only take say 5A, you would be a code violation (might get away with it if the breaker was 5A). 

Clearly the CT pulls some power, so you won't have all 15A for your tool, no different than having multiple tools plugged into the same circuit.  If you put a plug that is design for 15A on a tool, it needs to be able to handle a tool trying to pull 15A, this might cycle a breaker within the vac, but it sure as heck can't be destructive. Otherwise they need to remove the 15A (Nema 5-15 outlet).

 

[semenza]

This question has been asked about a bazillion times. No harm in asking it though.

There is an old sticky post about it but I am going to replace it with the reply you got from Festool.

  As anecdotal evidence I am pretty sure that just about every Festool user on this forum plugs every tool into the vacs. And does not have any problems.

Seth

 

[nicholam77]

Thank you [member=1619]SRSemenza[/member] - sorry I missed the old sticky.

 

[semenza]

Thank you [member=1619]SRSemenza[/member] - sorry I missed the old sticky.

Oh, that's OK. It wasn't posted in the best place to be found. I have updated it and posted it in several places for reference.

That label can be disconcerting.

Seth

 

[RustE]

...
Based on that response I feel like it's likely fine, but I'm going to clarify if that guidance was for specifically when the tool is plugged into the dust extractor.
...

I would assume (yeah, I know) that the dust extractor is plugged directly into the wall receptacle as well. Don’t add the contact losses from an extension cord.

 

[mino]

That response is a VERY bold and very precise statement from Festool. Kudos to them.

I guess the "to reduce fire safety hazard risk do not put more than 2A rated tool" was the only way how to have a short and clear legal limit that they can stand up to regardless the circumstances - even for a persistent load.

I was not expecting Festool folks to be so open here - and they are very correct in what is said. Most hand tools are low-duty so they would be fine along with the Vac at 15A or whereabouts regardless if the combined max ratings are well above.

 

[ChuckM]

Every machine in my shop from SawStop to Kapex to bandsaw to drill press to dust collector and shop vac to air filtration system, etc. is NOT plugged directly into a wall outlet. It's either because the front of any outlet is blocked by something or because it's too far away from where the machine is located.

That includes the newly purchased CT15 which is plugged into an extension bar, used mostly with the DF500 or PRO9 LTD sanders.

The only things in the shop that are plugged directly into wall receptacles are...extension cords!

Frankly, if the CT15 or any Festool dust extractor could only be used with it plugged directly into a wall outlet, I'd never be able to own any Festool extractor (previously I owned a CT26...also used with it plugged into an extension, not directly into a wall receptacle).

 

[mino]

Every machine in my shop from SawStop to Kapex to bandsaw to drill press to dust collector and shop vac to air filtration system, etc. is NOT plugged directly into a wall outlet. It's either because the front of any outlet is blocked by something or because it's too far away from where the machine is located.

That includes the newly purchased CT15 which is plugged into an extension bar, used mostly with the DF500 or PRO9 LTD sanders.

The only things in the shop that are plugged directly into wall receptacles are...extension cords!

Frankly, if the CT15 or any Festool dust extractor could only be used with it plugged directly into a wall outlet, I'd never be able to own any Festool extractor (previously I owned a CT26...also used with it plugged into an extension, not directly into a wall receptacle).

Keep in mind this part about extension cords etc. has nothing to do with Festool and everything to do with electricity safety.

Any limitations on extension cords are based on physics and do not care about any of the tools we use have a label on it. Whatever is on the label.

May one-man-shops have so many/so long extension cords in their shops that they would never pass a revision. Festool has nothing to do with it. I have seen "chains" of 3 or 4 extension cords in shops over here using basic household socket - not the industrial ones one is expected to use in a shop setting. No insurance claim should there be a fire caused by that ..

The original discussion was that the old manual lists 2400W as acceptable for the tool (and does not list it is 10A@230V and 16A@230V how it is meant).

If someone attempted to plug 20A worth of load into the CT15, AND run the vac at full power, AND connect it via a thin 15A-rated extension cord you will be pulling 30A or so over a cable not rated for it. The Vac itself will survive most likely BUT the cable/extension cable is at a high risk of overheating. Especially if it is not extended but is kept rolled. This assumes you somehow managed to plug it into an 30A-rated wall socket, naturally.

Will you do that? Probably not.
But it is a scenario the official documentation must account for - hence the "whatever you do 2A is fine" documentation and the FestoolUSA comment of "our hand tools will work fine and, within sanity, other makers tools will too".

 

[ChuckM]

I'm mainly using this kind of extension cord for the machines:https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sho...gauge-extension-cord?item=99W7546#share-modal

 

[benz240]

I have a Kapex plugged into a CT Mini, and that is plugged into a 20 amp outlet. With nothing else drawing power from that circuit, and running the Kapex at full speed (but not actually cutting), I placed an amp-meter in between the Mini and the wall outlet - it never went above 16 amps. So I think the Mini limits the draw from the wall such that it can be plugged into a standard household 15amp circuit and not trip the breaker. I need to test this with some actual cuts and put some load on the Kapex.

 

[mino]

I'm mainly using this kind of extension cord for the machines:https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sho...gauge-extension-cord?item=99W7546#share-modal

[eek]
Nice. That is some serious cable right there. You can certainly power a CT + whatever with that. Heh.

The European CT leads are rated for 16A and are 1.5mm2. AWG12 has slightly above twice the cross section ...

 

[ChuckM]

I have a Kapex plugged into a CT Mini, and that is plugged into a 20 amp outlet. With nothing else drawing power from that circuit, and running the Kapex at full speed (but not actually cutting), I placed an amp-meter in between the Mini and the wall outlet - it never went above 16 amps. So I think the Mini limits the draw from the wall such that it can be plugged into a standard household 15amp circuit and not trip the breaker. I need to test this with some actual cuts and put some load on the Kapex.

Did you use a line splitter with the amp-meter when you checked the current for the Kapex?

 

[DeformedTree]

I'm mainly using this kind of extension cord for the machines:https://www.leevalley.com/en-ca/sho...gauge-extension-cord?item=99W7546#share-modal

[eek]
Nice. That is some serious cable right there. You can certainly power a CT + whatever with that. Heh.

The European CT leads are rated for 16A and are 1.5mm2. AWG12 has slightly above twice the cross section ...

That is a pretty normal extension cord ChuckM showed.  A US CT26 has a 14AWG/2.08mm^2 cord on it.  14AWG is the min size for 15A in the US. 12AWG is the min for 20A. 

 

[ChuckM]

Yes, 12 gauge wiring is required for any 20amp outlet. I'm in the process of adding two 20amp wall outlets to the shop, and the city codes require me to use armoured cable plus AFCI receptacles. I found some affordable dual AFCI/GFCI outlets on Amazon.