Question about TSO Parallel Guide System: Right Hand versus "Both Hands" Kit

[Josh2]

Hi,

I am looking at different parallel guide system. TSO seems the best option but it's very expensive. The both hands TPG-20 & TPG-30 kit with two squares is $600. Puh. So how far do I get with the Right Hand set? I get the difference but it's hard for me to understand the practical implications. How does it compare in ease of use and precision? What's the downside?

Thanks!

 

[tjbnwi]

I beta test for TSO.

That out of the way. We process 100’s of sheets a month. For us, the dual arm system works very well.

A video of a single arm ripping 96". It is very doable, just to slow for our production needs.


Tom

 

[TSO_Products]

[member=72953]Josh2[/member] - your question and your comment about $ 600 needed to make successful paraqllel cuts are understandable. we, TSO have not done a good job of explaining the choices available.

In it's second year of production the TSO TPG Parallel Guide users have taught us a number of things:

Nearly all buyers of the TSO Parallel GUide already have, or will buy, at least one GRS-16 Guide Rail Square. Why? - you need to make SQUARE cuts all the time. So the GRS-16 is a foundational tool for the growing number of woodworkers using Track Saws. It is also part of a flexible SYSTEM that you can mix and match to your particular task.

If you buy no other accessory for your Festool or Makita track saw, buy a GRS-16 or the -PE version.
You can't go wrong. TSO pioneered the category. It is such a global success that FESTOOL approached us about a cooperatve arrangement. Today FESTOOL sells our patented GRS-16 PE version (made in Germany) globally outside North America while TSO supplies USA and Canada.  You can't choose better than that.

Now for the Parallel Guide question:
Almost half of our customers have bought the TPG-20-30 RIGHT Hand Set to use with a GRS-16. This gives them square AND parallel cuts in one set-up for workpieces of less than full sheet length.

As Tom mentioned in his post above, his shop has proven that full length parallel cuts can be made mit just one GRS-16 and  T-tracks on the RIGHT Hand side. As a practical matter you'll likely be making shorter parallel cuts most of the time.
That capability can be had for $ 149.00.https://tsoproducts.com/tso-parallel-guide-system/tpg-20-tpg-30-parallel-guide-system-right-hand/

To use a pair ot T-tracks, the $ 49.95 Track ADAPTER can take the place of a second GRS-16.https://tsoproducts.com/tso-paralle...rallel-guide-system-fits-right-or-left-hand/.

Since you are in the deciding stage, you may be interested in participating as BETA Tester in our TPG continuing development program. If you're interested and to learn more, email me directly

Hans
hans@tsoproducts.com

 

[Josh2]

Thanks for the detailed response. I will write tomorrow.

What I read now is that the two sided version is important for narrow stock. That seems like an important reason. Do you agree? Certainly the most important reason for my applications and might help differentiate the two kits.

 

[Mike Goetzke]

Hi,

I am looking at different parallel guide system. TSO seems the best option but it's very expensive. The both hands TPG-20 & TPG-30 kit with two squares is $600. Puh. So how far do I get with the Right Hand set? I get the difference but it's hard for me to understand the practical implications. How does it compare in ease of use and precision? What's the downside?

Thanks!

I’ve had the full system for a while now. I’m an active hobbyist and not a production guy but the TSO Square(s) and the parallel guides are my go to tools. I do use the two arms when making long rips but have, like Tom, made 8’ rips without a second arm but found myself double checking the far end dimension so quicker/easier to use the second arm.

What has really surprised me is how accurate/quick the combo is at crosscutting panels as well as smaller width hardwood. I now only use my miter saw to crosscut components that are at the limit of the the stop of the parallel guide.

Around the time TSO was getting the parallel guides production ready I was making a 4’x8’ work table from three CNC’d  MFT type slabs. I bought a few dogs and was ready to use the dogs to register my rail and use as a squaring fence. By the time I had a project to use the MFT system I had the TSO products and never have had a reason to try the bench dog system.

Mike

 

[Charles Wilson]

Hi,

I am looking at different parallel guide system. TSO seems the best option but it's very expensive. The both hands TPG-20 & TPG-30 kit with two squares is $600. Puh. So how far do I get with the Right Hand set? I get the difference but it's hard for me to understand the practical implications. How does it compare in ease of use and precision? What's the downside?

Thanks!

I’ve had the full system for a while now. I’m an active hobbyist and not a production guy but the TSO Square(s) and the parallel guides are my go to tools. I do use the two arms when making long rips but have, like Tom, made 8’ rips without a second arm but found myself double checking the far end dimension so quicker/easier to use the second arm.

What has really surprised me is how accurate/quick the combo is at crosscutting panels as well as smaller width hardwood. I now only use my miter saw to crosscut components that are at the limit of the the stop of the parallel guide.

Around the time TSO was getting the parallel guides production ready I was making a 4’x8’ work table from three CNC’d  MFT type slabs. I bought a few dogs and was ready to use the dogs to register my rail and use as a squaring fence. By the time I had a project to use the MFT system I had the TSO products and never have had a reason to try the bench dog system.

Mike

Mike,
I’d be interested to exactly what you have regarding the ‘TSO system’ and if you have any projects that you have completed that you can share. I have been eyeing the TSO stuff for a while now.

Thanks,
Chuck

 

[tjbnwi]

As a beta tester I have every piece for the TSO PG’s.

All of the sheet goods and some of the solids were processed for the casework in this album. There are other albums in my Flickr account, the PG’s were used for those units also.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/156063358@N08/albums/72157714774557602

Tom

 

[Mike Goetzke]

Hi,

I am looking at different parallel guide system. TSO seems the best option but it's very expensive. The both hands TPG-20 & TPG-30 kit with two squares is $600. Puh. So how far do I get with the Right Hand set? I get the difference but it's hard for me to understand the practical implications. How does it compare in ease of use and precision? What's the downside?

Thanks!

I’ve had the full system for a while now. I’m an active hobbyist and not a production guy but the TSO Square(s) and the parallel guides are my go to tools. I do use the two arms when making long rips but have, like Tom, made 8’ rips without a second arm but found myself double checking the far end dimension so quicker/easier to use the second arm.

What has really surprised me is how accurate/quick the combo is at crosscutting panels as well as smaller width hardwood. I now only use my miter saw to crosscut components that are at the limit of the the stop of the parallel guide.

Around the time TSO was getting the parallel guides production ready I was making a 4’x8’ work table from three CNC’d  MFT type slabs. I bought a few dogs and was ready to use the dogs to register my rail and use as a squaring fence. By the time I had a project to use the MFT system I had the TSO products and never have had a reason to try the bench dog system.

Mike

Mike,
I’d be interested to exactly what you have regarding the ‘TSO system’ and if you have any projects that you have completed that you can share. I have been eyeing the TSO stuff for a while now.

Thanks,
Chuck

[member=1152]Chuck Wilson[/member] - thanks for your interest.

Sewing Cabinet (Yeah, I know it's pink)
View attachment 1

Chairs & Deck
View attachment 2

Cooler Box
View attachment 3

Planter Boxes
View attachment 4

Bookcase
View attachment 5

Yarn rack
View attachment 6

Vet center for my grandaughter
View attachment 7

Current project - bathroom vanity/storage (plus can see most of my TSO products)
View attachment 8

 

[knuckles]

Any idea when the LH rails will be back in stock?

 

[Josh2]

Any idea when the LH rails will be back in stock?

I think pretty much everything is out of stock. So I have the same question for all the other configurations.

 

[Charles Wilson]

As a beta tester I have every piece for the TSO PG’s.

All of the sheet goods and some of the solids were processed for the casework in this album. There are other albums in my Flickr account, the PG’s were used for those units also.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/156063358@N08/albums/72157714774557602

Tom

Thanks for sharing!!  Really awesome work!!

Chuck

 

[Charles Wilson]

Hi,

I am looking at different parallel guide system. TSO seems the best option but it's very expensive. The both hands TPG-20 & TPG-30 kit with two squares is $600. Puh. So how far do I get with the Right Hand set? I get the difference but it's hard for me to understand the practical implications. How does it compare in ease of use and precision? What's the downside?

Thanks!

I’ve had the full system for a while now. I’m an active hobbyist and not a production guy but the TSO Square(s) and the parallel guides are my go to tools. I do use the two arms when making long rips but have, like Tom, made 8’ rips without a second arm but found myself double checking the far end dimension so quicker/easier to use the second arm.

What has really surprised me is how accurate/quick the combo is at crosscutting panels as well as smaller width hardwood. I now only use my miter saw to crosscut components that are at the limit of the the stop of the parallel guide.

Around the time TSO was getting the parallel guides production ready I was making a 4’x8’ work table from three CNC’d  MFT type slabs. I bought a few dogs and was ready to use the dogs to register my rail and use as a squaring fence. By the time I had a project to use the MFT system I had the TSO products and never have had a reason to try the bench dog system.

Mike

Mike,
I’d be interested to exactly what you have regarding the ‘TSO system’ and if you have any projects that you have completed that you can share. I have been eyeing the TSO stuff for a while now.

Thanks,
Chuck

[member=1152]Chuck Wilson[/member] - thanks for your interest.

Sewing Cabinet (Yeah, I know it's pink)
View attachment 1

Chairs & Deck
View attachment 2

Cooler Box
View attachment 3

Planter Boxes
View attachment 4

Bookcase
View attachment 5

Yarn rack
View attachment 6

Vet center for my grandaughter
View attachment 7

Current project - bathroom vanity/storage (plus can see most of my TSO products)
View attachment 8

Awesome!!!! Thanks so much for sharing.

I have a Bosch contractor table saw but prefer not to use it.  I did a bunch of work re-trimming out a some windows just using my TS75 and rails. I think it came out pretty well but could have been done more efficiently.

I don't mind spending the money and I have to be portable (in the winter I move into the basement and all the other seasons I am in the garage).

Have you found the TSO products handy for cutting dimensional lumber in addition to sheet goods?

I might like to chat with you more about your impressions but it may be better to do so via DM.

Thanks,
Chuck

 

[tallgrass]

I am looking to by the complete set. there are discounts on if you purchase them all together. Which combination givers you complete right and left hand sets. As a single order. Regards

 

[Hollatime]

Much like festool, the whole $Y$TEM approach etc.

Since the guide rail square is something you’re going to buy anyways right, this is what I did.

Using any tslot profile, I used the tape slot t track from lee valley (https://www.leevalley.com/en-us/shop/hardware/jig-and-fixture-parts/73516-veritas-tape-t-slot-track)

Drill/tap 2 m6 holes
Attach to rail square, if you bought the super counterfeit one also drill/tap holes in it
Insert stop block of choice to tslot
Jazz it up with some adhesive rules or slide in ones if you go the t track plus route

And tbh I don’t even know why I tapped the holes in the tslot profile. A 5mm through hole prob be all the same

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Hollatime]

Also lol touting flexibility when you literally cannot use your parallel guides unless you buy a rail square or an adapter that used to cost $80 and is now $50 for each arm none the less.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TSO_Products]

Thanks for the detailed response. I will write tomorrow.

What I read now is that the two sided version is important for narrow stock. That seems like an important reason. Do you agree? Certainly the most important reason for my applications and might help differentiate the two kits.

[member=72953]Josh2[/member]  - you understand correctly: all parallel guides we're aware of require two t-tracks/arms (L & R) attached to the guide rail when cutting Narrow Stock in common cabinet work.

If you could buy a TPG-30 set (LEFT & RIGHT) would you prefer to save some money if it were availablew without the 20 inch T-track pair?

Let us know. We are evaluating offering that configuration with the 20 inch T-Tracks still available as "spare parts" ordered directly from TSO later.

Hans

 

[Hollatime]

$Y$TEM

It’s been noted before the initial offering of the 20 and 30inch tracks is a bit odd. Of course the tracks are sooper propriety and can only be used in conjunction with another sooper propriety offering.

If you just offered a 20 or 30 inch initial track, not much left to markup since you’re banking on them being forced to purchase the adapters or rail squares., basically just the flip stop left at that point. Including another track seems like where everyone would start during RD. One short, one long.

But then how can you get them to purchase the third  track?!? The one needed for the 4x8 sheets and all the cuts out of the 30-20inch dead zone.

Maybe do some grade level price analysis on their complete set offering vs one handed kit/tracks etc. common man goes well stuff may as well just buy it all!

Certainly tons to be gained by this and not solely at profiteering, I just find the practice much more reasonable when dealing at scale - an entire jobsite being team yellow or team red, that sort of system. This is like cnc in my garage, system exploiting a niche consumer base of an already niche market in a very brazen way.

Edit: and kudos to the big brain idea of instead of selling the connectors/bring your own incra track like the existing products at market to just selling the track as well and making it borderline necessary to stick within the brand. Why sell the connectors/stop for $150 when you can sell just the flip stop and some t track and bink the consumer buying a $180 rail square or $80 rail adapter if they ever want to actually be able to use them, then buy another track for $100.

At some point it’s a bit too much, can spike it a bit based on quality of product/convenience for sure but again you quickly go from the average $150 market to nearly $700. Like booking a hotel and when it’s time to pay, all the fees taxes and bookings have now skyrocketed the price from the clickbait that’s got you there. 

Almost expect that in order to keep pricing in line and low for us valued consumers you couldn’t include the NASA spec 50inch track instead of the 30. Had no implications that the most common sized sheet good on this side of the planet is 4x8 and few would splurge on a 30 inch track then for sole convenience.

And sure just a dude trying to have a successful business, hard to fault that at all just the whole system/drm non sense from consumer standpoint is triggering.

If I was going to buy someone a rail square, I’d buy them the TSO one for sure, it’s hands down better than the tool nut one in every way. Sucks having to buy something for the magical drm rfid gatekeeper or iZ a SyStEM!! Or not even being able to buy/use a product.

Yea you got jacked and prob lost decent chunk of loonies over the rail square but man what ever happens if H ZHANG LTD starts dumping them for $30. I make a few clicks on Alibaba and have a crate of green ones made up and shipped here to sell. Western businesses have tried to combat this with the whole system/proprietary shackles but attempting to imprison current customers to your products and actively prevent new ones from entering your “ecosystem” not the way about it

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sancho57]

@ Hollatime

Yes it is a system by system I mean you can only use the TSO PG with the TSO GRS which is what they were designed for.

I own r/h and l/h 20"/30"/50", I find I use the 30" more than the others. the 30" is great for ripping ply for cabinets 23 1/4" w ad 24" W and 12"/13" w for uppers. When ripping I use the FS3000 guide rails.
So If I were you Id get the r/h and l/h 30" PG that should give you about 95% of your most common cuts.

The beauty of them is the ease of calibrating them. Once calibrated youll get dead nuts accurate cuts.

 

[Josh2]

Yes, I think that would be a good offering. I once you are in the system, who knows... 

Thanks for the detailed response. I will write tomorrow.

What I read now is that the two sided version is important for narrow stock. That seems like an important reason. Do you agree? Certainly the most important reason for my applications and might help differentiate the two kits.

[member=72953]Josh2[/member]  - you understand correctly: all parallel guides we're aware of require two t-tracks/arms (L & R) attached to the guide rail when cutting Narrow Stock in common cabinet work.

If you could buy a TPG-30 set (LEFT & RIGHT) would you prefer to save some money if it were availablew without the 20 inch T-track pair?

Let us know. We are evaluating offering that configuration with the 20 inch T-Tracks still available as "spare parts" ordered directly from TSO later.

Hans

 

[TSO_Products]

Yes, I think that would be a good offering. I once you are in the system, who knows... 

[member=72953]Josh2[/member]  - thanks for your feedback - very helpful!
We are actively pursuing this product configuration.

Hans