Quick Domino Question: Table Aprons

[Matthew Schenker]

Hi Everyone,
Last night, I used the Domino to join table legs to aprons for a maple microwave stand.  The aprons are 2" wide x 3/4" thick and the legs are 2" wide x 1 3/8" thick.  I used 8x40 Dominoes to join the aprons to the legs.

This is the first time I used Dominoes for table leg/apron assemblies.  The process went very well.

Do you think the table legs/aprons need extra support, or do you think the Domino joints by themselves are strong enough?  I'd like to hear people's opinions on this.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[Tezzer]

Matty, if it was me, i would make my own 10 x 32 x 54mm tenon, and use the widest setting on Domi for a super sized m&t.

Thats what i use on my tables i make and havnt had one collaps yet ;D

Second thoughts, your only got little leg/rails. The 10 x 50mm would be ideal

 

[woodshopdemos]

Do you think the table legs/aprons need extra support, or do you think the Domino joints by themselves are strong enough? 
Thanks,
Matthew

Matthew,
  Think of the joint in terms of vector analysis.  You have minor pressure to and from the direction of the apron. The glue and tight fit should handle that. I think you have most  force straight down across the joint. If you agree  with that, I think your Dominos will work fine. .

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Matty, if it was me, i would make my own 10 x 32 x 54mm tenon, and use the widest setting on Domi for a super sized m&t.

Thats what i use on my tables i make and havnt had one collaps yet ;D

Second thoughts, your only got little leg/rails. The 10 x 50mm would be ideal

Ah, too late for different Dominoes!  The legs/aprons are all glued up.  I considered using the 10x50 Dominoes, but was concerned that perhaps there wasn't enough side material on the aprons after the mortises were cut.

Generally speaking, I like to use the largest possible Domino.

Matthew,
  Think of the joint in terms of vector analysis.  You have minor pressure to and from the direction of the apron. The glue and tight fit should handle that. I think you have most  force straight down across the joint. If you agree  with that, I think your Dominos will work fine. .

Yes, I thought about this, and it makes perfect sense.

Another detail: I'll be adding two lower shelves, and they will be attached to the legs.  These are not only useful, but they add more support to the whole structure and take some pressure off the loose-tenon joints.

Matthew

 

[womackdesign]

Why not glue in some small corner blocks on the back side of the apron rails to reinforce the joint. Very traditional and always done on furniture. Chad

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Why not glue in some small corner blocks on the back side of the apron rails to reinforce the joint. Very traditional and always done on furniture. Chad

Usually, I do use corner blocks.  It's a pretty simple thing to do.  But I'll be building a number of tables in the next few weeks, so I was curious about whether the Domino might make that extra step unnecessary.

Matthew

 

[Warrior]

You have to ask if corner blocks were used to strengthen traditional m&t joined leg to apron assemblies. If so I would not forgo them.

 

[ROb McGilp]

Hi Matthew,

On small tables, or where the frame allows it, (say a table with 1 1/4" rails and 3" legs) I'd agree with Tezzer, there isn't the stress and so large home made dominoes are perfect, but when it comes to larger table such as a large square dining table, with 3/4" or 1" timber rails I'd still use corner blocks.

Regards,

Rob

 

[Matthew Schenker]

On small tables, or where the frame allows it, (say a table with 1 1/4" rails and 3" legs) I'd agree with Tezzer, there isn't the stress and so large home made dominoes are perfect, but when it comes to larger table such as a large square dining table, with 3/4" or 1" timber rails I'd still use corner blocks.

This is definitely a smaller table: the top is a 27" x 20" butcher block.  I put it all together last night and brought it into the kitchen.

I was going to add corner blocks, then I decided I'd let this be a real-world test of 8x40 Dominoes in use.  What's the worst that can happen?

A microwave cart is a simple project.  But it was something my wife really wanted, and in stores she couldn't find anything of the exact dimensions she needed.

It was an easy way for me to score good-spouse points!

Matthew

 

[Brice Burrell]

A microwave cart is a simple project.  But it was something my wife really wanted, and in stores she couldn't find anything of the exact dimensions she needed.

It was an easy way for me to score good-spouse points!

Matthew

Matthew, I think you mean: "It was hard work, but my wife is worth going through all of that trouble for." 

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Brice,
Yes, yes of course.  It was hours and hours of painful, precise labor.
Sometimes I need tips on how to present projects, not just on how to make them!
Thanks,
Matthew

 

[greg mann]

Don't beat yourself up about wheter it was hard work or easy work, Matthew. You got all the words spelled correctly.  ;D

 

[Gary Nichols]

But spelling isn't everything, though..... What happened to "No photos, didn't happen"?.... Where's the photo cops when you need them? ;D

Gary

 

[Matthew Schenker]

But spelling isn't everything, though..... What happened to "No photos, didn't happen"?.... Where's the photo cops when you need them? ;D

Good point!  I'll post a couple of shots in a little bit.
Matthew

 

[Lou Miller]

With all due respect to Tezzer, I disagree on the thickness of the Domino. I think you used too large of a Domino. I fooled around with my Domino on a whole bunch of test pieces when I first got it. IMO, there's no reason to exceed more than one third of the the wood thickness with your Dominos. In fact, a lot of the joints that I made in 3/4" thick wood are substantially stronger with thinner dominos than they are with thicker dominos. IMO, the max thickness of a Domino for 3/4" thick wood should be 6mm.

Oh and as to your main question, I'd still use the corner blocks if I were you.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Matthew,

I would use corner blocks because they help prevent racking (trying to force the top from the shape of a rectangle to the shape of a diamond with two acute corners), and they distribute the load from being concentrated on the M&T joint alone.  Similarly, they distribute the twisting load produced by picking up one corner of the table.  And they help reduce your scrap pile.

Dave R.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

I would use corner blocks because they help prevent racking (trying to force the top from the shape of a rectangle to the shape of a diamond with two acute corners)

Yeah, that's true.  I really wanted to have this be an experiment on how the Dominoes hold up in real use.  But the cart does shift a bit, especially when the microwave is pulled open.  I didn't think of how much force goes into opening a microwave door!  Looks like I'll have to add corner blocks, and do my experiment on another project.
Thanks,
Matthew

 

[Matthew Schenker]

...IMO, there's no reason to exceed more than one third of the the wood thickness with your Dominos. In fact, a lot of the joints that I made in 3/4" thick wood are substantially stronger with thinner dominos than they are with thicker dominos. IMO, the max thickness of a Domino for 3/4" thick wood should be 6mm.

Interesting point, and this has come up in other forum discussions.  I looked at the 6mm and then looked at the 8mm Domino, and I felt better going with the 8!  But maybe it's best to just think of this the way we think of traditional mortise-and-tenon, as far as the thickness of the mortise or tenon relative to the thickness of the
wood.

Before getting the Domino, I had never really used loose tenons before (I had dabbled, but not much).  I'm still getting used to the fact that loose tenons are equivalent to traditional mortise and tenons.

Thanks,
Matthew

 

[greg mann]

I think we all get hung up on how strong the tenon is when the joint failures are almost always something other than the tenon. We tend to oversize the tenon when all we are really doing is taking mass away from everything else. Those 5mm dominoes are pretty tough and most stresses are going to be along their grain. Not so for the mortice stock.

 

[semenza]

Hi,

      The corner blocks won't hurt, right?  Also this may be a microwave cart now, but with a butcher block top who knows what type of pounding it may get in the future?

Seth