Rabbets: router vs. tablesaw?

[Petemoss]

Tonight I stated constructing a box out of 3/4 plywood. It is a basic kind of deal where some of the edges have rabbets that the mating pieces sit in. Historically, I would create these rabbets on the tablesaw with my dado set. Since I now have the OF-1400 and an edge guide, I decided I would try to route them using the edge guide and a straight bit.

I found that the cut by the router was superior to the cut quality from the dado stack. I did, however, feel that cutting numerous rabbets on the tablesaw is much easier than having to position many pieces and cut them with the router. I think this mainly has to do with the ease of running pieces along the tablesaw fence versus having to reposition, clamp, and the fiddle with each piece to keep it from moving with the router. Perhaps it would be easier if I had the MFT going for me, but I don't. What thoughts do you guys have on router and edge guide versus tablesaw dado stack?

Also, I kept having a bit of trouble with keeping the guide up against the stock. It had a tendancy to rotate away from the stock especially near the end of the pass. I seemed to get better near the end of the project but never perfect. Any pointers? I'm thinking that maybe if I had expanded the guides out as far as they would go that might help provide support. I had instead only opened them enough for the bit to fit between.

Thanks everyone.

 

[erock]

Well for me,  I like using my OF1400 instead of the table saw.  I love the dust collection on the OF1400.  I don't have good dust collection on the table saw.  I don't want to deal with changing the blades on the table saw, shimming for the perfect cut.  I use plywood bits on the router and the micro adjustment if and when needed on the OF1400.  The MFT/3 does help out a lot. 

As for keeping the guide against the stock.  what direction are you running the router in?  Left to right? 

 

[Petemoss]

Yes, left to right. While I do realize that this direction of travel pulls the router into the workpiece, what seems to happen with me is at the end of the cut, when the leading guide is no longer making contact, you have to place additional pressure on the trailing guide to keep it against the the piece to keep the entire router to keep from rotating counterclockwise slightly. I kind of equate it to a handplane, how you have to place pressure on the knob at the beginning of the cut and on the tote at the end.

 

[Vindingo]

The edge guide definitely isn't 100% fool proof but it works once you get used to it.  You're spot on about applying pressure on the back edge when getting close to the end of the piece.  I keep my guide as close to the bit as possible, don't know if opening it would help. 

I never liked table saw rabbets or dados.  I always had issues with keeping the depth consistent if the material was warped or bowed a bit. 

One method I use to reduce the amount of clamping/positioning between rabbets is to make one long pass, cross cut,  then rabbet the sides (or top and bottom).  With this method you are making 5 passes with the edge guide instead of 8, if you were to rabbet each panel individually.

The MFT works wonders not only for cross cutting, but for clamping as well.  I wish I would have gotten mine sooner. 
I'm saving my pennies for an OF-1010, as you can see my dust collection is lacking.       

 

[mouppe]

I prefer to use a rabbet router bit in my OF1400 and dispense with the edge guide. I also use the wide base on my router for extra balance.

 

[mwhafner]

For rabbets, I prefer a D-handle router, with a low center of gravity, and a edge guide.  The DeWalt 618 or the Milwaukee 5619 work incredibly well.  The MFK is also an excellent choice, if you can use the bit you need.

The wide base on the OF1400 helps a lot, but I still haven't found it to be the best choice.

For dadoes, The OF1400 on a guide rail are my choice. 

 

[semenza]

I like to use a rabbeting bit. I find it easier  than the edge guide. And I find the DC is better with the swiveling shroud and top mount hose connection than with the edge guide set up. (OF1400)

Seth

 

[ccarrolladams]

Because my workers compensation policy does not allow me to have employees use dado sets, for me this is no longer an option.

When using a router from above, it is far easier to cut rabbets than dadoes, because with a rabbet only one side of the cutter is contacting the work. Therefore when you push the router in the correct direction, you are making the best cut. Things get more complicated making dadoes, because the first pass both side of the cutter are in contact with the work, meaning one side is going in the wrong direction. I take a popular approach to dadoes, in that I use a cutter smaller than the final dado. I make a first pass going in the direction best for one side. Then I move the router over and make the second pass for the other side in the direction best for it.

In production I make rabbits using a router table with a power feed. I find that works very well.

For dadoes I use an OF 1010 and a guide rail clamped to the work and table. Before making the first pass I set a stop on the table, so that after I make the first pass all I need do is release the clamps and slide the work to the fixed stop. Then I re-clamp the work and pull the router toward me back to the starting position. This process ensures that the router was moving in the best direction for each side of the dado.

Trust me, it takes longer to explain than to perform, once the set-up block for the original clamping has been made. Fortunately those set-up blocks last a long time.

Of course once I invested in a large CNC nested router, making excellent and snug dadoes is very productive.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Dado blades for the TS are forbidden here in Europe so the only way I ever knew of doing dadoes is with the router. It has a bit of a learning curve in the beginning, though the curve is small. The only thing to worry about is that the router tends to want to run away from the path, so with the fence in place, I use a firm grip on the router and move slowly. 

 

[Petemoss]

Hey thanks everyone. That was a good idea to cut the long rabbet prior to crosscutting. I also, could definitely see where a regular bearing-guided rabbet bit would be easier if you have the right size. I'm going to keep playing with it and see if I can get a better technique going forward. Thanks again.

 

[fisheye]

I prefer to use a rabbet router bit in my OF1400 and dispense with the edge guide. I also use the wide base on my router for extra balance.

How do you manage the approach to the cut, before the bearing makes contact with the guiding surface? Keeping the end of the cut square also looks impossible to me.

 

[semenza]

I do a very careful climb cut for about the first 1".

At the exit end, I go slow, have just gotten used to  the sound of the motor when exiting, and the feel of pushing straight past the corner.  When I first started rabbeting, and sometimes now when extra care is needed, I come out of the cut a little short of the end and then sneak up on it.

Seth

 

[mouppe]

I start the cut an inch or so in from the end. I "pivot" the router in with my left elbow fixed, then I move along the edge. When I get to the end I am really careful to not round the corner. I prefer to under cut it and finesse it with a shoulder plane or chisel.

Then I go back to the start of the rabbet and use a climb cut.

 

[stairman]

there are many ways to do this,  but I avoid plywood dados on the tablesaw like the plague.
accuracy, safety and the fact you're sliding the face of your workpiece across the machine are but a couple reasons I prefer a router,  and the gentleman in this video is demonstrating the same way I do most of mine,  except for when I skim the TS75 first to make scoring cuts, then the router to finish.

rabbets are a different animal  :
I like to score cut then finish on the jointer

 

[Nick C]

If you're looking for quality of cut, the router is the better choice. The OF 1400 is awkward for this, but usable. One problem, shared by all Festool routers, is that the base is too small. Way too small. Even the accessory "oversized" base is too small. That's easy to fix, though, with an aftermarket base. The Festool edge guide, on the other hand, is plenty large enough. You do have to learn to transfer pressure off the portion of the guide that is no longer in contact with the workpiece. That requires a little practice, but it's easier when you have a bigger base. For insurance, I use a bit with a pilot bearing AND the edge guide. In general, the high handle placement on the Festool router--or any plunge router for that matter--will never feel as secure as the lower handles on a fixed-base router for this application, but you can get used to it.

 

[Kevin Stricker]

I say it depends on the quantity of cuts you have to make.  1-2 then the router generally wins hands down, but if you are doing a set of cabinets then a TS with dado stack is going to take much less time even if you do two passes per cut.

Build a sacrifical fence with a blade shroud/hold down and you can keep your hands well away from the dado stack.  Dust collection is hands down better on a cabinet saw with dust collector than a handheld router.  As for rabbits on a router table, it always seems like more of a struggle to hold panels tight to the fence than with a TS.  Easier to use your weight to hold down a workpiece than it is to push it sideways.

I understand that dado stacks are dangerous, but it is hard to argue with efficiency.  Using a handheld router with a large rabbiting bit is dangerous too.

 

[extiger]

This thread has continued for a week and I watched with interest. To the OP, you're not going to like what I have to say, because it demands more money for Festool equipment

There's not arguing that a straight router bit cuts a cleaner Dado and Rabbet than a Dado Stack on a table saw. I use a lot of Dados, and bought router (the OF 1400) in conjunction with the MFT/3 table, specifically because it accurately plow trenches, be safe, and collect the dust. I feel for you trying to perform a Rabbet with only the router and the Guide Rails. Clamping them, and accurately aligning the cut must be a challenge.

Reluctantly, incrementally,  I've bought more Festool gear than I'd like. Hey, I'm not rich. But with experience at woodworking I've come to respect the Festool philosophy of creating systems. Multiple tools that performs tasks that would otherwise take elaborate, more expensive machines. Even for shorter cuts on wood, a track and saw is no substitute for the MFT/3, with its component shorter Guide Rail and one of the track saws. The price is up there, but boy, does it ever mimic a far more expensive alternative of a sliding table saw. Again, it does so safely and with great dust collection.

That MFT/3 teams up with any of the saw or the routers to make a powerful combination. And, the combo is portable.