RAS 180

[ririmarqueverte]

Hi,

I do not think this sander is imported to the US but i nevertheless ask my question: has anyone use the RAS 180?

I read with great interest our forum administrator brilliant review of the RAS 115 and noted he was impressed by the removal power of that tool. I have a Rotex 150 and i also happen to have a Rustofix 180 ( which i use to ceruse oak floors ). Now, it has occurred to me that the Rustofix can easily be transformed into a RAS 180 or a Polux 180 ( polishing ) and vice versa. There are only a couple of spare parts to buy :. My idea is thus to buy these parts and get 2 tools for the price of one ( well nearly... ). As the Rustofix is a heavy tool i was wondering whether using a RAS 180 was not an impossible task. I shouls be interested to hear if someone has an experience of that tool

By the way, does anyone know why it is not imported?

riri

 

[ririmarqueverte]

I take that no one has used the RAS 180 ???. I guess i'll be the first one then. I have ordered the spare parts enabling me to convert a Rustofix into a RAS 180. Cost of these parts: 185?. Cost of a new RAS 180: 620?. Saving: 435?. A few beers i guess. I'll keep the forum informed.

riri ;D

 

[ririmarqueverte]

Hi,

I received this morning all the necessary parts to convert my RUSTOFIX into a RAS 180 thus offering me additional sander at a fraction of its cost.

What is a RUSTOFIX:

It is basically a rotating wire brush enclosed in a aluminium casing ( see picture ). The tool is delivered in a steel box and a plastic drum coated with 80 grit is also included ( see picture ). The Rustofix is a heavy duty tool and is therefore heavy. I use it on oak floors for a ceruse effect. It does the job very quickly and the look is great. First with the wire brush then with the other brush, then the ceruse. A light sanding and that is it.

I also use the machine with pine wood of all kinds to make it look as if coming out of the sea. Looking old and washed. I use the wire brush to its maximum depth ( adjustable ) then the other brush. Then a few coats of bleach and that is it. You have transformed a very plain wood into something nice.

The conversion is easy to do and takes no more than 10 minutes. You basically remove the aluminium casing with two allen screws and you use these to attach the sanding pad to the machine and you have a RAS 180!

What is a RAS 180:

It is a rotary sander. The original feature apart from size is that dust collection is not made through the sanding disk but rather on the ouside via the aluminium tube. Dust is chanelled into this via a small semi circular brush which you can adjust by turning the handle until you get maximum efficiency.

On the picture, you can see that the mighty Rotex 150 looks rather feminine compared with the 180.

Does it work better/faster than the Rotex? Well i have to wait for the sanding papers ( out of stock ). I shall keep you posted.

riri

 

[pteubel]

I also use the machine with pine wood of all kinds to make it look as if coming out of the sea. Looking old and washed. I use the wire brush to its maximum depth ( adjustable ) then the other brush. Then a few coats of bleach and that is it. You have transformed a very plain wood into something nice.

Could you post some pics of this effect? I just can't seem to picture it...

 

[ririmarqueverte]

No problem will do it

 

[Dan Uhlir]

I have the RAS 180 and it's great for rapid stock removal. I wouldn't say it's better than a rotex two different types the RAS 180 i.e. the termite I wouldn't use for any delicate sanding, however, i use the rotex for all sorts of delicate stuff. I haven't used the termite as much as i thought i would but man when you want to remove an eighth or quarter inch of wood in a hurry it's nice to have in the truck like when i was replacing some 20 screens i had painted last week a little tight no more. peace dan

 

[ririmarqueverte]

Hi Peter, this is for you.

Picture 1 shows a pine joist without treatment

Picture 2 shows the same after Rustofix and a few coats of bleach. You note the veins are fully open and the whole appearance has changed. I hope this has shed some light.

riri

 

[ririmarqueverte]

Sorry, i mix up the 2 pictures. I am sure you have corrected yourself, it is the other way around. The bottom picture is without Rustofix and the top one with Rustofix.

 

[pteubel]

Excellent. Now I understand what you are talking about. Thanks.

 

[ririmarqueverte]

Hi,

Finally i got round to do this comparative test: Rotex 150 versus RAS 180.

Here is the playground. Old pine floorboard coated with an undetermined product ( varnish, stain?). Very hard to get rid of because it melts.

I choose grit 36 for both machines. The Rotex was set on aggressive mode speed 3 and the RAS speed 2.

Results:

Rotex: 5 minutes
RAS: 2 minutes

The RAS is thus much quicker to remove the product. Surpisingly the RAS is a gentle tool and is not as hard on the joints, the way the Rotex is. The RAS grits are very expensive ( 3? ) and if not careful ( too much speed or too much pressure ) the would clog up very quickly.

Can you live without the RAS? Yes you can but if one day you need to remove a lot of material it is a very nice tool.

 

[Dave Rudy]

Thanks Riri, for taking the time to do the comparison.  It's a little frustrating learning more about tools we cant get here in the US, but it is fascinating to learn more about different tools and their applications -- I am always amazed at the number and variety of sanders and abrasive power tools.

Your efforts are appreciated.

Dave

 

[ririmarqueverte]

Thanks Dave. My pleasure to share. Frankly, i am at a loss as to why the RAS 115 is imported to you guys and the RAS 180 is not! I am pretty sure you guys can also handle big stuff ;D. Is the polisher Polux 180 imported? If yes, it is the same body and suffice to replace the pad.

riri

 

[Dan Clark]

Thanks Riri, for taking the time to do the comparison.  It's a little frustrating learning more about tools we cant get here in the US, but it is fascinating to learn more about different tools and their applications -- I am always amazed at the number and variety of sanders and abrasive power tools.

Your efforts are appreciated.

Dave

Dave,

I share your frustration about tools that aren't available in the US.  I suspect that it's mostly a chicken or egg thing... 

Like any well-run small company, Festool has to make good choices about where it spends its money to get a reasonable payback.  I'm pretty sure management looks at each product and asks two questions:  1) How much will it cost to take this product to a particular market? (Costs to reengineer, manufacture, and market in Germany, US, UK, Australia, etc?)    2) What is the payback in that market?  (How much revenue?  Over what period?)

The problem is that they have to make these decisions BEFORE they have adequate information.  Costs are a bit easier to forecast.  Revenue is largely based on demand, which is much tougher to predict. 

When a product is in a well-know category where there is reasonable current demand but not a lot of great competitive options (like sanders), then that's pretty easy.  Now take circular saws.  Hmmm...  Everyone knows what they are.  Yes?  Made to work on a guide rail?  With great dust collection?  What's the demand for those?  Five years ago, awareness and demand were pretty low.  Now it's pretty high.  Or take dust collection in general... Five-ten years ago, most people accept dust as just part of the manly art of woodworking and carpentry.  Now, most people are aware of the necessity for it and are aware of the product options are available.

This brings me back to my point - the chicken or the egg?  If people are aware of a product - it's category, brand, and then product features - they might buy lots of them.    So how do you build awareness?  Reengineer, manufacture, and market it, and hope for the best?  You might win or you might waste a bunch of money.    Maybe wait until you are sure it's going to be big seller?  You might win, or the delay may allow a competitor to establish a solid foothold an    d you'll NEVER win! 

I think that Festool looked at the market for the RAS180, assessed the costs, the expected demand and the availability of competitive options, and decided that it wasn't worth it.  They might win, but the overall risk was too high to attempt it.

Going forward, I think the Festool will reevaluate their options.  Overall brand awareness of Festool is much higher now.    The engineering, manufacturing, and marketing costs are better supported by much higher revenue streams.  The risk of adding a product to a new market is somewhat less IF they can assess the impact of a new tool.  And that's where this forum adds value...

I suspect that Festool management monitors this forum - and threads like this - closely.  If they see enough noise about a product, they may reassess.  If they see product feedback grow and grow, they'll put more effort into entering that market.  If not?  Well, too bad for us. 

Sorry for the longwinded post, but that's my opinion based on 15 years in sales and marketing.

Dan.

 

[ririmarqueverte]

Thanks Dan for this enlighting analysis. But then why on earth did they decide to launch the RAs 115 ( which somehow compete with the Rotex 125 ) and not the RAS 180 ( which has no direct competitor )?

 

[Dave Ronyak]

I agree with Dan's comments on considerations likely being made by FestoolUSA.  I also note that Bosch makes a right angle grinder unit with diamond cutting wheels and dust collection that is widely used by tradesmen engaged in decorative concrete, and available at many tool rental centers.  A pro made short work of removing remnant vinyl flooring adhesive and Bruce wood flooring adhesive (bitumenous) and the top ~1/8 inch from my kitchen floor before installing a decorative concrete surface resembling field stone.  PC also makes a specifc paint removal sander/grinder.  So to me, the RAS 115 makes sense because it fills a needed nitch - refinishing door and window trim for which the competitor's machines are oversized.

Dave R.

 

[greg mann]

I agree with Dan's comments on considerations likely being made by FestoolUSA.  I also note that Bosch makes a right angle grinder unit with diamond cutting wheels and dust collection that is widely used by tradesmen engaged in decorative concrete, and available at many tool rental centers.  A pro made short work of removing remnant vinyl flooring adhesive and Bruce wood flooring adhesive (bitumenous) and the top ~1/8 inch from my kitchen floor before installing a decorative concrete surface resembling field stone.  PC also makes a specifc paint removal sander/grinder.  So to me, the RAS 115 makes sense because it fills a needed nitch - refinishing door and window trim for which the competitor's machines are oversized.

Dave R.

I agree with Dan and Dave. I have a Metabo 4 1/2 inch angle grinder and the RAS115. They are essentially the same size but thay are not anywhere near the same tool. In my opinion, the RAS115 can do many of the same things the angle grinder can do, like sharpen shovels, axes, and lawn-mower blades and wood sculpting, but the angle grinder would be useless for paint removal or even rust removal for that matter.