Recommendations for someone starting out?

[ibluetooth]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking to buy my first Festool Tool, along with others required to start my first wood working project.  (lists of projects below)

Your suggestions are greatly appreciated on which tools would make the most sense to start.

I do have a couple of power tools from the Yellow Brand - including a cordless impact driver (DCF888) and circular saw (DCS575) + a couple of FlexVolt 9AH batteries. I've also got an older 12” sliding dual bevel compound mitre saw and a few of the Kreg tools I've accumulated over the years  - K4 Pocket Hole Jig, Cabinet hardware jig, concealed hinge jig, shelf pin jig, drawer slide jig, square cut jig, multi mark tool.  I should say that I'm not married to any of the tools listed above and would probably give them away to a family member if they were to be replaced by a Festool equivalent eventually.  I'm also not really sold on the pocket hole way of joinery, but recognize that it's a workable solution while I build up the rest of the necessary equipment to get the first couple of projects under my belt.

With regards to workspace, I don't have a lot unfortunately.  I don't see myself having a dedicated table saw or router table as the section of my garage where I'd be working is simply too small.  The best setup for me would be a couple of saw horses that fold away when not in use along a with a 4 x 8 piece of sacrificial rigid foam insulation that can be tucked away behind a bunch of cabinets in the garage when not in use. I do have a couple of 55" tool storage work benches with bamboo tops that will provide some much needed work surface space for these projects as well.

I think the first thing I should invest in is Dust Collection - although I'm open to differences of opinion from the group and/or recommendations as to which dust extractor.

I do have a few ideas of projects that I'd like to complete including the following:

1. Patio Firepit Table + Concrete Top (Doubles as a family dinner table for 6 -

?itok=Bwat92K-) Will have to make adjustments to the dimensions to accommodate dinner plates and maybe use a DIY Concrete table top.
2. Patio Sofa and Chair (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9f/29/b7/9f29b75a20d7e6ce1d7a2142b0a001be.jpg)
3. Bathroom Vanity (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J6nMdlVBtc)
4. BBQ Cooking Station (still looking for ideas)
5. Built In Master Bedroom Closet (https://www.houzz.com/photos/melhorn-traditional-closet-miami-phvw-vp~89653522)
6. Live Edge Media Console (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McQbastKY14)

The reality is that I'm probably going to try and finish the Patio Firepit Table this summer.  Depending on how well that project goes, I think the Patio Sofa and Chair may be completed in the fall and then the rest to follow later in the year / into next year and years to come. In terms of building material, based on all of the projects listed above, I can't see myself using any material larger than 2 x 8 joined together for table tops. The rest would probably be pre-finished lumber + plywood from the local home improvement store. 

I look forward to reading everyone's suggestions.  Also, I know some forums frown upon reseller recommendations, so can someone recommend where I'd find the authorized resellers near Whitby, Canada? I'm looking for a reseller that will be patient with a person that's new to woodworking and has the ability to help me understand what most of the lineup does and what's the most optimized for what I'm trying to accomplish.

Thanks so much in advance

 

[martin felder]

My own thought would be to not look at a particular tool as your next step since you mentioned a severe space limitation.  Just my 002, but I think you should go to youtube and look up videos from guys who have a lot of Festool products against the wall allowing room for cars to be parked in a garage, and then, when the car is gone, can very can quickly setup a workshop, but not with sawhorses, with Festool products that have a lot of functionality.  That may influence your purchasing decisions and priorities. 

 

[HarveyWildes]

Think about what value Festool has for you over stuff by Makita/Milwaukee/DeWalt (or whoever) and buy accordingly.

I started out with a Festool Domino.  I had a pretty complete shop at that point, and wanted the Domino's unique joinery capabilities.  The first couple of times I used it, I was really pleased with the ease and accuracy of the joinery, as well as the dust collection - I had a Fein at the time, and the dust collection really surprised me.

Then I went to a Festool road show and tried out the Festool 6" ETS EC with a Festool dust collector.  I had been struggling in my shop with the Fein and a DeWalt random orbital sander, and decided to try a Festool combo dust extractor and sander.  Sanding problem solved.  I got a couple of other sanders to round out the capabilities I needed, all with the same great dust collection efficiency.

I have a great shop-made router table setup with a dedicated PC 3 1/4 horse motor and decent dust collection, but router tables have their limitations.  However, I hated freehand routing because it is so messy.  I thought, if the sanding dust collection is that good, maybe I could freehand route inside with a Festool router.  I got a good deal on a 2200, and yep, the dust collection on that was great as well.  Now I have the 1400 and an MKF too, so that I only have to use the 2200 beast when it's really needed.  (But really, with a good bit, it cuts cherry and maple like butter.)

Somewhere along the way, I tried a Festool drill (T18) just because I was getting the value I needed out of the other Festool tools.  Sorry, but the drill just didn't do it for me, mainly due to the limitations of the Centrotec system.  I found that when I was in the shop, I always reached for my Milwaukee M12 drills and drivers, and had to kind of force myself to use the T18.  Furthermore, when I tried to drill into 1.5" maple to create an MFT style top on my bench, I found the T18 under-powered, while my DeWalt 18V went right through.  I sold the drill.

I do like the MFT style tops and accessories.  In addition to an MFT table, my newest bench, as mentioned above, also has the MFT dog hole pattern, made using the Parf guide.  I use both primarily for flexible clamping rather than cutting, but I'm experimenting more with cutting as time goes on.

Finally, on the cutting theme, I got a TSC 55 and some rails.  It's got quite good dust collection for inside work, though not as total as the routers and sanders.  It also will require me to change my use of floor space when cutting panels, and I'm adapting to that slowly.  Since I didn't have a really good panel cutting solution before, I'm just adding new capability.  The cut quality of the TSC is way better than any of the other panel cutting options I have.

My son has a Festool Trion jigsaw that he raves about, but I've never bought one because I'd use it about once every two years, and generally for things that don't require great accuracy.  I've also looked at Vecturos, but I've got a serviceable Milwaukee cordless multi-tool that works well and dust collection is not really an issue.  I've thought about a Kapex every once in a while, but I have a Bosch setup that works well with my big dust collector, and whenever I thought about giving in to temptation anyway, the motor issues with the last generation cooled my heels.

My needs and objectives (joinery, inside the shop dust control, clamping and panel cutting) determined how I value different Festool tools.  Lots of people really like the drills, for example, and I'm sure they are worth the cost for people who need what they do well.  They just didn't do it for me.  On the other hand, the Domino, the dust collectors in tandem with the sanders and routers, and the flexible clamping of MFT style tables are well worth the extra cost to me.

So in general, I'd start out by buying Festool tools that have the extra capabilities that you value for the work you do, and buy less expensive stuff where Festool is not needed.  It's worked for me.

 

[Hawkeye0001]

With the tools you listed already in your possession there's only two things I'd wholeheartedly recommend:

a) a decent dust extractor like the Midi
b) a good Router, e.g. OF 1010 or OF 1400

A router is such an incredibly versatile tool overall and gives you a lot of mileage initially for a wide variety of tasks like rounding corners, dados and grooves, cutting circles, creating mortises and tenons, planing large slabs or wood. All these tasks can be done with other tools as well, but this packs it all in one tool. Build yourself a simple router table that you can set up in a little workbench, makes life a lot easier.

For your limited work space take a look at homemade options like the Paulk Bench or the MFTC, both superbly flexible solutions that are sturdy, set up in a matter of seconds and scalable.

And even if this is the FOG there's no need to buy everything straigth from Festool. I ended up buying tools as I needed them for particular projects along the way. If I use a tool heavily I certainly want accuracy, superb dust extraction and little frustration in terms of user friendliness (TS 55 + guide rail, OF 1400, all their sanders are good examples of this). But for tools that I pull out a handful of times a year I might as well get a affordable $50 alternative or a used Festool (no need to buy new, these things are built to last another two generations of your offspring...).

You might also wanna consider what battery system you buy into. Compare Festool's lineup with e.g. Makita or Ryobi incredible range of battery tools and you'll see the difference. Not to mention that Festool uses three different battery types at this very moment (18V BP, 18V BP Ergo and 10.8V BP-XS) and changed their battery standard - though upward compatible in most cases - several times over the past 10 years (like the discontinued 12V and 15V; for whatever reason we had three voltages at once in the first place...  : ). Festool battery powered tools are absolutely superb, no question about it, but if I had needs beyond a few cordless woodworking tools I'd look at the bigger picture.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

An MFT workstation is a nice solution for a small shop scenario and it can fold up to lean against the wall when you need the space for something else. The track system can work with both a track saw and the routers and the grid makes for nice square assembly, especially with Domino joinery. The extractor can tuck underneath to help with space. My point here is that you can build a Festool shop setup that meets YOUR personal needs if you think things through. The extractor (midi is a good choice) along with a router (OF1400 is the most versatile) and Domino would compliment your current tools and you can build from there. In some cases, you'll be replacing existing tools, but with something that's part of "the system". In other cases, such as with the Domino, you're acquiring capability that's "sorta" unique to Festool and very worthy, too.

Interestingly, my first Festool tool was the jigsaw because it was a need I had at the time and I was just starting to investigate the brand. It didn't take long for "Uncle" Bob Marino to, um...get a whole lot more business benefit from me.

 

[ibluetooth]

My goodness,

Those are some really great / detailed suggestions.  Thanks Jim_in_PA, Hawkeye001, HarveyWildes and Martin Felder. 

I will do some more research on small shop setups on youtube to get the creative juices flowing for ideas.  I've also looked at some of the Paulk bench designs - seems interesting and will definitely consider this. The MFT Workstation seems nice as well - and the fact it folds completely flat is a bonus as everything needs to be stored against a wall or in a tool cabinet when not in use. Should I look at the Basic or the MFT/3 Bundle?  I can't really tell if there's a cost benefit to buying the bundle upfront vs. adding necessary options as I go.

Finally, I'll start looking for resellers to see if there are any sales / deals on the CT Midi.  Does anyone have any recommendations for really great resellers?  Do resellers do bundle deals for multiple items in one purchase? Feel free to PM me if posting of reseller names aren't allowed in this forum.

Thanks a bunch everyone.  Super excited to start this journey.

 

[xedos]

Welcome.

I'm surprised no one has suggested a sander for your first gateway drug, I mean Festool.  You didn't say you had one in your list and if you do I'm guessing it's not a great one.  The ETS 15 is a superb finish sander and 200 buck makes an easy entry into the festool family. It's a tool that can be used on virtuallyevery project starting now.

Dust collection has been mentioned already - that's another that can be used on every project too.  But your strategy to " start looking for resellers to see if there are any sales / deals on the CT Midi " is a waste of time.  Festool pricing is the same at ever dealer, and the only sales are system wide or when an item is discontinued and a dealer sells off inventory at a discount.  Even then, tis not certain that there will be a price reduction.  And with pretty much every online seller now collecting sales tax, you typically won't save that by ordering out of state. 

IF you want a reduced price, used is really the only way.  But be warned - Festools hold their value and most guys ask pretty close to new prices for used tools, so don't hold your breath hoping to score.  It's possible to land a deal though, just make sure that the discount is commensurate with the expiring or no warranty that festool is known for.

 

[Birdhunter]

In reading your list of projects,  most seem doable with high grade plywood. The chair and sofa are exceptions.

DeWalt ("Yellow Brand") are excellent tools. If I were starting out, I would look at the Festool products that do unique functions that my projects require.

I would look at the Domino 500 first. It is truly unique and a wonderful joinery tool. But, you need a vac to go with it. I cannot tolerate the shriek that the cheap vacs generate. Both Festool and Fein make excellent and quiet vacs. I prefer the Festool vacs and sometimes, there are discounts on them.

The MFT plus TS55 tract saw are blessings when working with plywood projects especially with no table saw. The track saw also requires a vac. The Festool vac can be used with the track saw.

The 5" Festool Rotex is a unique sander good for heavy sanding or finish sanding and it also pairs with the Festool vac.

I think DeWalt , Bosch, or any other high end tools would be suitable for your needs.

 

[xedos]

Fein no longer is an "excellent" vac since they moved production to Eastern Europe.  It's a good vac, but overpriced considering performance.

 

[Dove_Tail]

I'm going to try to avoid giving you specific tool recommendations.  Your projects should always drive your tool purchases.  Try to avoid buying any tool because "it's cool and you think you'll use it someday".

Since you're starting with the Patio Firepit Table this summer, buy what you need for that project first.  If you watch a few YouTube videos on similar projects, you'll see what tools are used and you can go from there.

A lot of great advise above - just balance it against 1) your workspace 2) what you plan to build 3) your budget.  You're smart to ask this group what they think - We have a good bunch of woodworkers here that will give you honest feedback.

I looked at the MFT bundle vs. basic.  While I'm sure that the bundle saves money, I'm not sure how much.  My ONLY hesitation with the bundle is that it includes a standard guide rail.  Many of us will advise you to get a "holey" rail - This rail has the holes drilled at 32mm and works with the LR 32-SYS and a router to line bore holes in casework (or shelf pin holes).  This is a nice future planning item.  Just be sure you want to go the MFT route.  It could be very good for you since you may not have a dedicated table saw.  Again, watch some videos on the MFT and see what you think.  Personally I don't have an MFT - I use other methods for similar cuts.

It appears that Whitby is only 40 miles from Toronto, so you should have a brick and mortar dealer nearby - I would go in and put your hands on a few tools before investing.  There is a dealer search on the Festool Canada site.

I own several Festool tools and I love everything.  I have invested in most of the line other than the drills.  Many of the tools have been game-changers for me.  Once I went to a Festool finish sander with dust extraction my life changed.  The track saw for me was revolutionary.  And the routers are stellar.  The list goes on.  As a system, Festool is an excellent brand as many items work together.  So I strongly recommend Festool - I don't think you will be disappointed.

Good Luck.

Cheers,
Mark

 

[Jim_in_PA]

Lee Valley is one go-to in your Canadian geography...dangerous stores to go into, however...they have way too much "nice stuff". LOL

 

[ibluetooth]

I'm going to try to avoid giving you specific tool recommendations.  Your projects should always drive your tool purchases.  Try to avoid buying any tool because "it's cool and you think you'll use it someday".

Since you're starting with the Patio Firepit Table this summer, buy what you need for that project first.  If you watch a few YouTube videos on similar projects, you'll see what tools are used and you can go from there.

A lot of great advise above - just balance it against 1) your workspace 2) what you plan to build 3) your budget.  You're smart to ask this group what they think - We have a good bunch of woodworkers here that will give you honest feedback.

I looked at the MFT bundle vs. basic.  While I'm sure that the bundle saves money, I'm not sure how much.  My ONLY hesitation with the bundle is that it includes a standard guide rail.  Many of us will advise you to get a "holey" rail - This rail has the holes drilled at 32mm and works with the LR 32-SYS and a router to line bore holes in casework (or shelf pin holes).  This is a nice future planning item.  Just be sure you want to go the MFT route.  It could be very good for you since you may not have a dedicated table saw.  Again, watch some videos on the MFT and see what you think.  Personally I don't have an MFT - I use other methods for similar cuts.

It appears that Whitby is only 40 miles from Toronto, so you should have a brick and mortar dealer nearby - I would go in and put your hands on a few tools before investing.  There is a dealer search on the Festool Canada site.

I own several Festool tools and I love everything.  I have invested in most of the line other than the drills.  Many of the tools have been game-changers for me.  Once I went to a Festool finish sander with dust extraction my life changed.  The track saw for me was revolutionary.  And the routers are stellar.  The list goes on.  As a system, Festool is an excellent brand as many items work together.  So I strongly recommend Festool - I don't think you will be disappointed.

Good Luck.

Cheers,
Mark

Thanks so much Mark,

Great advice - and really exactly what I was looking for - buy based on the project at hand and listen to the wisdom of others on this forum. 

As far as retailers - unfortunately no brick and mortar stores are open for in store browsing at the moment - and probably won't be for at least another month based on the daily briefings we see here in Ontario.  The plan right now is to potentially wait to buy any of the tools until I can go into a store and see them in person, but I will order the CT Midi Hepa dust extractor online to start.

Thanks again.

 

[ibluetooth]

Lee Valley is one go-to in your Canadian geography...dangerous stores to go into, however...they have way too much "nice stuff". LOL

Boy do they ever!  I spent quite a bit of time and $$$ in there when I renovated the basement in my previous home  [smile]

 

[mino]

With the tools you listed already in your possession there's only two things I'd wholeheartedly recommend:

a) a decent dust extractor like the Midi
b) a good Router, e.g. OF 1010 or OF 1400

A router is such an incredibly versatile tool overall and gives you a lot of mileage initially for a wide variety of tasks like rounding corners, dados and grooves, cutting circles, creating mortises and tenons, planing large slabs or wood. All these tasks can be done with other tools as well, but this packs it all in one tool. Build yourself a simple router table that you can set up in a little workbench, makes life a lot easier.

Seconded.
You only realize how useful a GOOD router is once you have it. Looking back, not getting a proper quality router with a lot of accessories early-on was the biggest mistake I made when building up my shop.

After I had most of the good tools, it was not such a big game changer as it would have been at the start.

Get good router like the OF1400 with a pile of accessories/guides/etc. to go along. Only after that would I go investing in other things which mostly do the same a router can, just more efficiently.

 

[rexdp10]

I started with ets ec 125 and a ct26 cause I needed a finish sander.  Next was the ts55 to breakdown sheet goods.  Mft3 came next and really started to open up my options.  Df500 and ro125 followed quickly.  Needed to do a bunch of dados and having the tracks made the of1400 a logical next step and let me park my old Bosch in my benchtop router table. Got a bunch more now...but like others have said...buy for what you need.  There are some really nice conersrone tools and accessories in the lineup, and there are some very niche products too. The festool lineup works because it’s a “system” designed and geared to work together.