Refinish or build new?

[rnt80]

I'm nearing the end of this job (a giant Murphy bed with flanking built in cabinets) and hopefully this is the last mistake I'll make on this one...there have been plenty.  As you can see in the picture the middle doors in the middle section came out a different color so I need to fix it.  Should I sand these down or just make four new ones.  The doors are made from alder and have been stained and glazed.  They are coated with three coats of Target's sanding sealer and three coats of Targets's CV.  Because of the door profile there is going to be a lot of hand sanding and I'm wondering if all of that will be worth it knowing that I may not get the results I want.  Whereas building the new doors will allow me to start from scratch.  I've never had to go back and refinish something so any of you who have been in this position please fell free to chime in.

 

[Holmz]

NI can provide no help....

But how did they come out a different color?
Was it the stain, the wood, or something else?

 

[nclemmons]

The detail looks nice.  Sorry the color match is an issue.

I would think remaking them is your best path forward. Trying to sand those middle doors down and matching what is there would be a challenge.  You could try it, but I've never had good luck applying stain over sanded stain to match another stain!

But first, I'd suggest you first take a piece of alder and see if you can sand and finish it to match the existing stain you want to match.  Just want to make sure you can match what is there.

 

[Kev]

I would have thought sanding one and re-coating would be the best path as a trial ... you can always remake them, but that does seem a waste if they're accurately made [sad]

A profile sanding could shrink the task significantly [wink]

 

[roblg3]

Since there's no guarantee that NEW doors will match color, my guess would be to sand a little and see if the color lightens.  Did you put color on these doors? If you colored the doors with multiple coats, then sanding it back could be the answer.  Removing 1 or more coats of color should do the trick?  Then you can recoat with clear cv once you have a color match

 

[tjbnwi]

Spray tone the center doors. Look up Mohawk Finishing, they have videos on how to accomplish a match.

Tom

 

[grbmds]

The detail looks nice.  Sorry the color match is an issue.

I would think remaking them is your best path forward. Trying to sand those middle doors down and matching what is there would be a challenge.  You could try it, but I've never had good luck applying stain over sanded stain to match another stain!

But first, I'd suggest you first take a piece of alder and see if you can sand and finish it to match the existing stain you want to match.  Just want to make sure you can match what is there.

I would agree with practicing on alder you plan to use to remake the doors. From the picture I can't really see how significant the difference (maybe just my computer or my eyes) but, for me, it's sometimes very hard to match across finished pieces from different boards. If you have to out and buy different alder, it will have to be very close in grain and color to match the other doors anyway. My answer is more general since I have never used alder in any project.

 

[waho6o9]

Leave them alone, they look beautiful. Alder is difficult to get a uniform look to them and each piece

has it's unique look.  And as stated above there's no guarantee on the outcome when making new doors.

 

[tiralie]

As you can see in the picture the middle doors in the middle section came out a different color so I need to fix it. 

Very curious how that happened? Operator error or was the Target CV "off"?

Should I sand these down or just make four new ones. 

Way easier to just make new ones and you will be able to match the existing ones better.

Alternatively you could probably make the other doors look like the 4 middle ones easier than either sanding or making new ones.

Sanding those profiles and maintaining the crisp lines will be difficult. I would experiment with a paint stripper first, vs. sanding to see if I could remove the CV which seems to be the culprit to the color shift.

In my experience, it's extremely difficult to remove enough of the finish without completely altering the molding profile and or loosing the stain and glaze.

 

[rnt80]

I appreciate the advice.  I can't not do anything as it was, embarrassingly, the customer that pointed out the color difference.  It is more stark in a photo than in the room.  I don't think I can tint/tone these since they are darker than what they need to be.  Tinting the other doors to match would possibly work but that would also mean having to do the rest of the piece which really isn't plausible.  Tim, I'm not sure of the culprit but it may be the stain.  I had another gallon mixed up and it was mixed to the previous specs of the first gallon but something is obviously off.  I may try refinishing one door and if that doesn't work then it looks like I'll need to make four new ones.

 

[SMJoinery]

Hi Russell

Firstly that's some great looking work again. Well done.
Sorry to hear about the finishing issues.
Sounds like you've already decided to replace the four doors. The quality of your work suggests you yourself won't be happy knowing that your trying to remedy a fault instead of removing it from the piece. Your experience will also be telling you to replace the doors and not spend who knows how long trying to fix the existing doors and maybe still be back at this point.
I think this is the course of action id take. You can sand back the existing doors to test the new batch of finish before committing it to the new doors.
Good luck in what ever you decide.
Thanks for sharing your work.
Scott

 

[cblanton42]

Russell,
    I'd be willing to bet since you mentioned you had another gallon mixed that the 2 mixes are different/off.  Were the doors the last part of the project finished and only finished with the new gallon?  If so, that's a pretty strong vote for different finishes.  You need to check and see if what finish you have left is more of the wrong (or right) color since even if you start from scratch, you still need to match the finish on the rest of the project! 
    If the culprit is mixing error and you have the correct finish, I'd recommend new doors, re-finish, done.  (instead of hoping the sanding will remove the other color and fuss with the sanding).
Good luck!
CB
   

 

[tiralie]

I appreciate the advice.  I can't not do anything as it was, embarrassingly, the customer that pointed out the color difference. 

It's always better to have a client that cares. They can be tough to please but well worth it.

Tim, I'm not sure of the culprit but it may be the stain.  I had another gallon mixed up and it was mixed to the previous specs of the first gallon but something is obviously off. 

Hmm, interesting. Based on the blue cast of those doors I was guessing it was the top coat that was the culprit as it's refracting the light differently and causing the slight difference in color. It would be interesting to see. I have had differences from gallon to gallon of Targets products.

What was the stain? Was it commercially tinted to your specs and how was it applied?

While I know I should and there are plenty of warnings from the suppliers on the can, I don't always test to make sure my coatings and custom formulas are the same can to can.
Tim

 

[rnt80]

Tim, the stain is SW BAC and I always have them do custom matches for me.  I'm going to sand one of the doors and see what I get.  If I'm not satisfied with that result then I'll build new.  I would rather invest a few hours to see if they are salvageable before I sink all the time and money into building new.
I'm just as bad as you when it comes to testing before I start finishing.  While I have had Target products cast a blue hue on some projects I didn't chalk it up to a bad batch, rather I interpreted it as a characteristic of the product. 

 

[BPCFinishing]

Was this a custom match?  Sometimes when the paint store is matching stain they add tint several times to achieve the desired color match.  If you then go to make a second batch, all the tint goes in in one shot.  Technically the formula is the same, but I have seen it where there is a slight difference.  It's one of the big reasons they recommend boxing multiple gallons together (although that's obviously hard if you don't think you'll need more than one from the beginning).

 

[tiralie]

While I have had Target products cast a blue hue on some projects I didn't chalk it up to a bad batch, rather I interpreted it as a characteristic of the product.

Russell:
Depending on the light the blue cast is fairly normal with Target coatings. I neutralize this with a coat of amber shellac sealer.
When I mentioned the inconsistencies I meant that some batches didn't spray or settle like they should. For instance I was using some EM 9000 and finished one can and started another and as it was drying it fish eyed. Unfortunately this was on a piece of crown molding and I had to install the next day. Figures.
I called my distributor to get another can and he told me there were problems with some batches of 9000. I also wanted to use Targets EM2000 on a recent project but was advised that there was some product inconsistency.
I hope your sanding is successful.
I really wish I could see your project in person, it would be interesting to see what happened. I learn so much from these experiences.
Tim

 

[JeremyH.]

I'd suggest keeping track of how much you stir the stain. Even identical stain mixes will come out different if one had settled more and the other had not. It's really annoying. I did a decent sized kitchen and we ended up stirring the stain before we dipped our staining rags in it every single time or we just couldn't get it entirely uniform. This isn't as much of an issue with all stains, but it does happen.

Well, good luck.