Review of the Festool Parallel Guides.

[fshanno]

Hi Brice,
I'm probably wrong or I am missing something but it seems to me when I want to make a rip cut along the long side of the sheet, I must have both shorter sides absolutely parallel. I can use just one guide, but I will be probably out of 90 degrees with 3m long rail. So I see the only usage of the Festool parallel guides as a jig for repetitive cuts of narrow pieces.
I have two MFT1080 and have still problems with keeping the rail perpendicular to the fence. I was hoping the parallel guides could help with it but if I need two oposite sides of the wood sheet absolutely parallel it's the same or maybe even worse situation than with MFT and perpendicularity of the rail and fence.
Josef

The ends don't have to be square any more that the ends of a board have to be square when ripping on a table saw.  In fact they are very rarely square.  The ends only need to be  close enough to square that the stop can engage the reference edge on each end.  The FS-PA arms don't need to butt up against the edges of the piece you are ripping and really shouldn't.  The arms remain square to the guide because the attachment mechanism locks them rigidly to the guide.

And you're in luck on the other problem as well.  A single FS-PA arm attached to a 55" guide makes a fantastic t-square for crosscutting.  The length of the arm is enough to register properly against a reference edge to cut 90 degrees to that edge.  Typically when I'm breaking down sheet goods I try to nest so I can make as many 96" rips as possible with the FS-PA arms attached to my 106" guide.  Then I take the right arm off ( right as seen looking at the back of the guide) and put it on my 55" guide creating a t-square and make all the crosscuts with that.  I've rigged an extension for crosscutting that extends the arm for pieces longer than 25".  This setup beats anything but a computer controlled panel processor.  No more pencils or tapes to break down sheet goods. 

Here's the extended arm.  The stop is built to pick up where the FS-PA stop leaves off.  The stop also has a flange to support the arm so it won't sag.
[attachimg=#]
In interesting side note.  The tape on my extender is in inches and it picks up where the FS-PA leaves off in MM.  I'll probably tear off the factory metric tape.  Sometimes I'm such a loser.

And it is great for narrow pieces too.  I needed a bunch of 2" rips from melamine for parts make concrete counter top forms.  Nothing on planet Earth could have beat the FS-PA for this unusual little task.  I had it done before you could boot a CNC.

[attachimg=#]

Notice that one of the strips is curved?  Obviously the cut couldn't have been that bad no matter what technique was used.  It was purely released stress in the melamine.  I'd heard about that in sheet goods but never experienced it.  Luckily it didn't matter here because the pieces get screwed down to the mold bottom.

 

[jo041326]

Hi fshanno,
thank you for your explanation! I thought the whole arm of the FS-PA must be in contact with the sheet. Now it's clear to me. I was stupid. I will give it a try.
Thank you
Josef

 

[AlexThePalex]

Nothing on planet Earth could have beat the FS-PA for this unusual little task.  I had it done before you could boot a CNC.

Not even a (portable) table saw? Where you just have to set the fence and then run strip after strip through it without even spinning down the blade?

 

[fshanno]

Nothing on planet Earth could have beat the FS-PA for this unusual little task.  I had it done before you could boot a CNC.

Not even a (portable) table saw? Where you just have to set the fence and then run strip after strip through it without even spinning down the blade?

Not even a $20,000 sliding table saw.  Think about it.  You're cutting 2" strips of melamine that you don't need to break.  A stip like that will break if you look at it too long.  don't have to pick anything up but the strips which never fall anywhere.  I touch the 4x8 sheet exactly once, to slide it out of the bed of the pickup on to the horses.  And even then I'm not lifting the full 100lb weight of it.  Yea, I say far far far easier than a job site saw, easier than any table saw, easier than a panel saw, easier than anything and in this limited case I would include a CNC sheet processor on a vacuum bed with conveying equipment to move the sheet.  And safety?  Forget it.  Safer than anything except the CNC.  Safer than a SawStop.

 

[fshanno]

Let me qualify my comments by saying that I'm not a table saw hater.  In fact I just bought that new Ridgid granite top saw.  I actually enjoy cutting on table saws.  I respect them because things can go very wrong very quickly, but I think they are fun to use.  Fast, accurate, indispensable.  And the new generation of job site saws with true riving knives like the Bosch 4000 and the DeWalt with the rack and pinon fence are excellent and safe machines.  But I'll stand by what I've said.  For breaking down full 4x8 sheet goods the guided TS55 with the addition of the FS-PA/VL blows them away.

My opinion is flavored by the fact that I hate handling full sheets because I work alone.  Let's be perfectly clear, it's the bulky heavy unwieldy easily scratched 4x8 sheet I hate, not the saw.  I love the saw, table saws are the bomb, I can see a SawStop PCS in my future.  With the FS-PA/VL however, that hateful sheet is not a monster, it's more of a docile little puppy dog laying on it's back waiting for it's belly to be scratched. 

 

[AlexThePalex]

Not even a $20,000 sliding table saw.  Think about it.  You're cutting 2" strips of melamine that you don't need to break.  A stip like that will break if you look at it too long.   don't have to pick anything up but the strips which never fall anywhere.  I touch the 4x8 sheet exactly once, to slide it out of the bed of the pickup on to the horses. 

I don't think you're telling the full story. You've left out that you got a large surface to work on. You don't use the plunge saw all by itself, you got an extra (makeshift) table, but somehow you do talk about the table saw like it's the table saw all by itself.

 

[Jimhart]

Not even a $20,000 sliding table saw.  Think about it.  You're cutting 2" strips of melamine that you don't need to break.  A stip like that will break if you look at it too long.   don't have to pick anything up but the strips which never fall anywhere.  I touch the 4x8 sheet exactly once, to slide it out of the bed of the pickup on to the horses. 

I don't think you're telling the full story. You've left out that you got a large surface to work on. You don't use the plunge saw all by itself, you got an extra (makeshift) table, but somehow you do talk about the table saw like it's the table saw all by itself.

Alex,

I'm not getting what you're not getting.

Of course he supports the 8 x 4 sheet of melamine with a table of some kind. How does this weaken his point?

Even if you outfitted the portable saw with an unlimited infeed/outfeed/side table, you'd still have to slide a very heavy sheet across it, then drag it back to the front of the saw again.

Just like in Henriks example above, sliding the saw down the rail, bumping the rail over so the stops contact the edge, then ripping again has to be so much fun you're disappointed when you're finished.

I never felt that way when cutting a full sheet on my PM66 with extensive built in support.

Jim

 

[fshanno]

Not even a $20,000 sliding table saw.  Think about it.  You're cutting 2" strips of melamine that you don't need to break.  A stip like that will break if you look at it too long.   don't have to pick anything up but the strips which never fall anywhere.  I touch the 4x8 sheet exactly once, to slide it out of the bed of the pickup on to the horses. 

I don't think you're telling the full story. You've left out that you got a large surface to work on. You don't use the plunge saw all by itself, you got an extra (makeshift) table, but somehow you do talk about the table saw like it's the table saw all by itself.

Well, it's not a feature of the parallel guides per se, but the fact that they require half the space is an inherent advantage of any guided circular saw over any type of table saw for processing full sheet goods.  Of course the guided saw doesn't have an advantage here over a panel saw.  The panel saw obviously takes up less room because you don't need to get behind it at all and the sheet is almost vertical.  Nod here to the panel saw.  A CNC takes up quite a bit more because usually the workstation is nearby taking up floor space and clearance for the gantry makes it couple of feet wider and a bit longer than the biggest sheet it can handle.  Plus the vacuum equipment if any is going to take up some room.

Makeshift is in the eye of the beholder.  I prefer to call it a finely crafted collapsible cutting platform.  But I get your meaning.  It does take time to set up that finely crafted cutting table.  Actually here you point me to another distinct advantage of the guided saw.  With a sheet of foam on top of that finely crafted cutting platform I have much less chance of damaging prefinished sheets because I'm handling them much less.  And that's another reason Festool designed the FS-PA the way they did.  It doesn't have to lay on top of the material so there's little chance of scratching up the sheet.

Keep going man, you're making my day.

 

[Jimhart]

Expensive thread. I just sent Uncle Bob $325.

 

[Jimhart]

Here's the extended arm.  The stop is built to pick up where the FS-PA stop leaves off.  The stop also has a flange to support the arm so it won't sag.
[attachimg=#]
In interesting side note.  The tape on my extender is in inches and it picks up where the FS-PA leaves off in MM.  I'll probably tear off the factory metric tape.  Sometimes I'm such a loser.

And it is great for narrow pieces too.  I needed a bunch of 2" rips from melamine for parts make concrete counter top forms.  Nothing on planet Earth could have beat the FS-PA for this unusual little task.  I had it done before you could boot a CNC.

[attachimg=#]

[/quote]

fshanno,

Can you tell me the dimensions of the extensions and where you picked them up.

Thanks,

Jim

 

[fshanno]

fshanno,

Can you tell me the dimensions of the extensions and where you picked them up.

Thanks,

Jim

Jim,

It's a T-track 7/8 x 9/16 x 48 and it fits very nicely in the little channel.  This on is for cross cuts.  As soon as I need to rip greater than 25" I'm going to get a couple more pieces about 18" long. 

It does weigh the arm down so the stop you make needs that flange to sit on top of the sheet you're cutting.

 

[Barryduck]

Hi Brice,
Having read your and been favorable impressed by your excellent review of the Parallel Guides I recently purchased a set. I agree with your comments re the difficulty in accurately setting the scales due to the gap between the stop and the ruler. My solution is to use a steel ruler with a Veritas Ruler stop which provides excellent accuracy but somewhat defeats the purpose of the Festool calibration system. Whilst this method ensures both guides are accurately set and results in very accurate parallel cuts, is should be unnecessary in my view given the price ($660 Aust), and I believe Festool should consider a modification to rectify this issue.

As I only have a single  1400mm and two 1080mm guides I must use all three (one from my MFT1080), to cut 2400mm (8ft) sheets which  was my main reason for the purchase. Having to use two sets of  rail joiners is time consuming and, the resulting three piece rail is very flexible and difficult to align over the length of the cut, all of which is disappointing. I assume (as per yoour review), you  have only ever used a single long rail for your 8ft cuts and wonder if this solves the problem? If so I may have to consider this however at $460 Aust  the complete setup  is very expensive.
As for cutting narrow and long strips using the additional guide attachment, my experience is that it is really only feasible to cut from material which is as wide as or wider that the rail given the difficulty to secure it with clamps etc, and I agree with you that for this application a table saw is preferable.
I raise these issues only because I feel there may be other who are contemplating purchasing the guides and who like me will need to use three rails to accommodate cutting of
long sheets.

regards
Barry

 

[Jimhart]

Barry,

My first choice, if it were me, would be to add a 1900mm rail to your collection. Gives you more options for cutting with one rail than another 1400, allows the 8' cut with only 2 rails and is much easier to store and take with you than a 2700mm rail. Second choice would be another 1400.

I have a 2700 and it will never leave the garage.

Jim

 

[Brice Burrell]

Barry, thanks for taking the time to share your impressions. Posts like yours make for good discussions and that's why I post my reviews here instead of just on my website. 

Hi Brice,
Having read your and been favorable impressed by your excellent review of the Parallel Guides I recently purchased a set. I agree with your comments re the difficulty in accurately setting the scales due to the gap between the stop and the ruler. My solution is to use a steel ruler with a Veritas Ruler stop.......

I've since updated my review (I've not yet had the time to update this version) with a new technique for accurately setting the guides. I use a square to bridge the gap between the scale and the stop to set one of the guides. Then I once the first guide is set I slide both guides close together on the rail to align the second stop. You can find the updated version of my review at my website or on the Festool USA site.

.....As I only have a single  1400mm and two 1080mm guides I must use all three (one from my MFT1080), to cut 2400mm (8ft) sheets which  was my main reason for the purchase. Having to use two sets of  rail joiners is time consuming and, the resulting three piece rail is very flexible and difficult to align over the length of the cut, all of which is disappointing. I assume (as per yoour review), you  have only ever used a single long rail for your 8ft cuts and wonder if this solves the problem? If so I may have to consider this however at $460 Aust  the complete setup  is very expensive.....

I'd offer the same advice as Jim gave about the 1900 mm rail. I don't own a long so I couple a 1400 mm and 1900 mm rails together to rip sheet goods, it works well for me. I am fairly careful with the rails to make sure they stay in alignment.

 

[Barryduck]

Hi Brice,
Thanks for your prompt reply and advice. I have tried the "square" alignment and it works well except that the rail joiners prevent the guide from sliding along to the other adjoined rail. I guess I need to take Jims advice and update to a 1900 mm rail or another 1400 mm rail.
Thanks also for all your other  reviews which are practical, clear and concise and have provided me with numerous tips on using my Festools more efficiently.
regards
Barry

 

[Brice Burrell]

I'd highly recommend the 1900 mm rail. The 1900 mm rail makes it a little to cross cut a sheet and it joined with a 1400 mm rail easier to rip a sheet.  

 

[Barryduck]

Hi Brice,
Yes the 1900 rail makes a lot of sense. Having spent some more time with the guides today I am confident they will prove a worthwhile addition over time.
Regards
Barry

 

[Tinker]

I have, for a couple of years now, been without my table saw.  It just took up too much floor space.  Especially when ripping long pieces over 6 feet in length.  I have (almost)never looked back and thought it was a mistook, altho sometimes I would like to move it back for a one time project.  It often takes a bit of thinking and experimenting to figure the best way to set up for multiple rip cuts.  Once a solution has been determined, it is very quick to follow thru with accuracy for those multiple cuts using my MFT and ATF 55.  It has been the times when I needed only to make only a few rip cuts of equal size that I recognize the value of a table saw for both ease of set up and accuracy. (with somewhat complicated setting up, I have made multiple rip cuts as thin as 3/16" with accuracy) 

When I first read Brice's report (maybe even previosly to his fine work) I recognized the value of the new parallel guides.  I have not found the space in my checkbook to place my order as yet, but these look like winners to me.  Steve Jones has recently come up with a great idea that he is now marketing.  At first glance, and further study, I had thought this might turn out to be my better solution and had changed my thinking.  However, upon further review (in my own mind), I realized his idea would work no better in my shop than would a table saw.  And, I could only use it with the MFT 3.  I would still be in a situation, even if i could adapt it to using on a set of horses, where i needed more than twice the length of the piece to be cut just to be able to handle the rip cut.  For anything more than 8 feet, (for ripping an 8foot 2x, I need over 16 feet of walking/working space) I need to rearrange most of my shop.  With anything designed to be used only within the space of the lumber being ripped is really the only way to go for my needs. 

I have not looked at the parallel guides in person and up close as yet, but with Brice's review and with input about them in other discussions, I can see great advantages.  And best of all, I do most of my panel cutting right on the back of my truck, or with tail gate and one or two horses.  These guides will work there or anywhere, any time.  In side or out in the wide open spaces.  For my situation, I am thinking Uncle Bob will have the solution. 

Thanks, Brice.  After going thru your fine and in depth review several times, i feel as if i have been well introduced.
Tinker

 

[Brice Burrell]

.....Thanks, Brice.  After going thru your fine and in depth review several times, i feel as if i have been well introduced.
Tinker

Tinker, you're most welcome!

Thank you for adding your thoughts to this discussion. My goal really is to give people a good introduction, as you put, to the tools I review. Some reviews are more about the authors opinions, that's not my focus when writing a review. Sure I throw in my opinions but I really want the readers to get a in-depth look at the tool and come away with a good idea of how it works. I start almost every review with a lot of pictures of the tool, simple explanations of the parts and what they do. That way someone that isn't going to use the tools the same way as I will might still find the review helpful.

I'm glad the review as help in some small way to help you decide the guides may be a good fit for you. It's always nice to hear that after reading one my review someone went out and bought the tool. But sometimes I feel ever better when some tells me that decided the tool wasn't the right solution for them after reading my review, that just saved them a lot time and money.

 

[Mike B]

FWIW I'd also like to thank Brice for the informative review/tutorial on how the parallel guides function. You've done a better job of explaining the concept to me than Festool did!

I can totally relate to Tinkers life without a table saw as it mirrors my own situation. These parallel guides have been added to my short list for sure.