Rip Dogs Redux

[Tinker]

Hey Richard,
Hope I'm still on your list.

Your parallel guides work great. I had a long wait to get my Incra T-plus tracks, but finally got them Friday.  I was using Kreg t-tracks, but they were problematical.  I don't have much time for the shop lately until grass slows down.  I have a list of projects and your dogs and puppies will set me up fine.
Tinker

 

[Theshipstore]

Richard I know tinker is your push person , but I still need to on the list too.

Sal

 

[rmwarren]

Everything is here and being packaged, with the exception of the new guide pin gadget that attaches to the MFT extrusion (sorry Sal...).

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There is now a Products page on the Rip Dogs website with ordering info.

Thanks,

RMW

 

[ridgenj]

i think I might not be the first ordering but it went smooth like silk.

Cheers
Luis

 

[Rocky]

Is there a demo for the rip Dogs?

 

[ridgenj]

I couldn't find one yet  but also don't has the product in my hands. I am sure they are working full steam ahead on one.
cheers

luis

PS I received the products and the quality is excellent and easy to use

 

[cvn72]

Hey Richard,

Just ordered both the rip dog and rip guide sets and can't wait to try it out when I get them.  But when will the "MFT Guide Pin Brackets" be available for sale?

Manny

 

[rmwarren]

Hey Richard,

Just ordered both the rip dog and rip guide sets and can't wait to try it out when I get them.  But when will the "MFT Guide Pin Brackets" be available for sale?

Manny

Manny,

I should get them ordered this week, lead time is 3-4 weeks. I just have not had time to fine tune the design and test the new method of adjusting the friction slide on the pin (i.e. the "boss" has had other priorities for my free time...).

Thanks for the order, it is out the door.

Is there a demo for the rip Dogs?

Michael, there are a couple VERY BAD, old videos on YouTube, making a better video is on my short-list.





Ignore the narrow-stock thingies in the first video, they never made it past prototyping.

Thanks,

RMW

 

[Claimdude]

Hey Richard,

Just ordered both the rip dog and rip guide sets and can't wait to try it out when I get them.  But when will the "MFT Guide Pin Brackets" be available for sale?

Manny

Manny,

I should get them ordered this week, lead time is 3-4 weeks. I just have not had time to fine tune the design and test the new method of adjusting the friction slide on the pin (i.e. the "boss" has had other priorities for my free time...).

Thanks for the order, it is out the door.

Is there a demo for the rip Dogs?

Michael, there are a couple VERY BAD, old videos on YouTube, making a better video is on my short-list.





Ignore the narrow-stock thingies in the first video, they never made it past prototyping.

Thanks,

RMW

Richard,

I have your guide dogs and wanted to order the rip dogs. I don't recall do I order them off ebay?

Thanks
Jack

 

[rmwarren]

Hey Richard,

Just ordered both the rip dog and rip guide sets and can't wait to try it out when I get them.  But when will the "MFT Guide Pin Brackets" be available for sale?

Manny

Manny,

I should get them ordered this week, lead time is 3-4 weeks. I just have not had time to fine tune the design and test the new method of adjusting the friction slide on the pin (i.e. the "boss" has had other priorities for my free time...).

Thanks for the order, it is out the door.

Is there a demo for the rip Dogs?

Michael, there are a couple VERY BAD, old videos on YouTube, making a better video is on my short-list.





Ignore the narrow-stock thingies in the first video, they never made it past prototyping.

Thanks,

RMW

Richard,

I have your guide dogs and wanted to order the rip dogs. I don't recall do I order them off ebay?

Thanks
Jack

Not on eBay - go to www.ripdogs.com/products

Thanks,

RMW

 

[rmwarren]

Question on cutting angles: I am toying with a gadget to work with the Rip Dogs that would allow setting angles with the stock MFT fence and my MFT fence adapter. It would be adjustable between 0 degrees and 90 degrees, but also have detents for common angles.

I admit I don't cut angles often, so my question is: Do detents @ 0/15/22.5/30/45/60/67.5/75 & 90 degrees cover all "common" angles cut in woodworking? Would appreciate any input.

Also, I have lots of Rip Dogs on hand, including the new MFT fence adapter.  Using the fence adapter with the stock MFT fence and a Rip Dog you can set it precisely at 45 and 90 degrees, with the fence clamp you can lock the fence to the MFT at any angle:

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Thanks,

RMW
 

 

[Tinker]

Richard,
As I had spoken to you about trying to set angles using a fence, rail, dogs and lining up to holes on the MFT fence, I am seeing a light in your suggested method.  I have the MFT/3, the 1080 fences and a T-trac.  I can get different angles using different fences.  some of the angles could be gotten by setting a pin to one side at the rail end and to the opposite side of the fence at the far end.  Using dogs and fences, there was no way I could determine  the angles other than 90º and 45º with total accuracy and only one size fence.  I think you are maybe working out something like an Osborn protractor.

I had been hoping that I could eliminate having to drag my MFT protractor out of the shop by using only one fence and a pocket full of dogs.  There seemed to be no way i came up with that is as accurate and quicker than using the protractor and MFT/3 fence.  I am anxious to see how your idea will work.

BTW:  Thanks for the extra rip puppies. Those dogs with the extended pin have found other ways to be useful other than what has been shown here.
Last week, i was making a lazy susan as i was experimenting with finding angles on the MFT. I had a big problem with accuracy in making pie shaped pieces .  i finally tried with my SCMS and got a lot closer.  i glued up two halves (8 sections to each half) by taping the topside joints and flipping over into sort of a 1/2 tent, squeezing a little glue along each joint.  I held the assembly in the air by putting the end pieces against your Rip Dogs.  I could have used any dogs for that part.

When the glue had dried, i taped the topsides of the two halves together and flipped.  I had not yet cut the circle, so the regular dogs did not reach high enough to support the outer pie sections.  i have done this before by using scraps of 2x material and clamping to the table.  This time, it was an easy matter to stick 4 of the RIP Dogs into appropriate holes and let the folded assembly rest peacefully as I squeezed glue along the folded joint.  So quick and so easy.  I appreciate your design ingenuity.
Tinker

 

[rmwarren]

Tinker,

The idea I am playing with is similar in use to a sine bar, using the 2 dogs in place of the cylinders on the bar. The centers on the dogs are fixed in 96mm increments, and this becomes the hypotenuse of a right triangle.

For example, spacing the 2 dogs in holes 0 and 3 (as I think of them) as in the photo below, they are 288mm center-to-center (3 holes X 96mm). The MFT fence pivots on the guide dog in hole "0" (this photo does not show the fence adapter but it works the same way) and the spacer sets the height of the opposite side of the triangle between hole "3" and the fence, or adjacent side. To get a 30 degree angle the spacer need to be 144mm long:

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Just measure, cut and sand the spacer to the right length making sure the ends are square to preserve the right triangle, place it between the dog and the fence and use the fence clamp to lock it in place.  You have everything you need to do this now, i.e. one guide dog, one rip dog, the fence adapter and the MFT clamp.

If you spaced the dogs in holes 0 and 4 the distance would be 384mm on-center, the spacer would need to be 192mm to get a 30 degree angle, and so on. You can use any 2 holes you want, all you need is the distance (# holes X 96mm) and the angle you are aiming for. There are lots of online calculators or apps you can use to calculate this, I use an app on my phone called Trig Help to do it in the shop.

The gadget I am playing with would incorporate spacers for each common angle, while also letting you set it to any angle freehand, and eliminating the need to use the MFT fence clamp to lock it in place.

Thanks for the input.

RMW

PS - there was more discussion about this in the original rip dogs thread.

 

[greg mann]

Tinker,

The idea I am playing with is similar in use to a sine bar, using the 2 dogs in place of the cylinders on the bar. The centers on the dogs are fixed in 96mm increments, and this becomes the hypotenuse of a right triangle.

For example, spacing the 2 dogs in holes 0 and 3 (as I think of them) as in the photo below, they are 288mm center-to-center (3 holes X 96mm). The MFT fence pivots on the guide dog in hole "0" (this photo does not show the fence adapter but it works the same way) and the spacer sets the height of the opposite side of the triangle between hole "3" and the fence, or adjacent side. To get a 30 degree angle the spacer need to be 144mm long:

[attachthumb=#]

Just measure, cut and sand the spacer to the right length making sure the ends are square to preserve the right triangle, place it between the dog and the fence and use the fence clamp to lock it in place.  You have everything you need to do this now, i.e. one guide dog, one rip dog, the fence adapter and the MFT clamp.

If you spaced the dogs in holes 0 and 4 the distance would be 384mm on-center, the spacer would need to be 192mm to get a 30 degree angle, and so on. You can use any 2 holes you want, all you need is the distance (# holes X 96mm) and the angle you are aiming for. There are lots of online calculators or apps you can use to calculate this, I use an app on my phone called Trig Help to do it in the shop.

The gadget I am playing with would incorporate spacers for each common angle, while also letting you set it to any angle freehand, and eliminating the need to use the MFT fence clamp to lock it in place.

Thanks for the input.

RMW

PS - there was more discussion about this in the original rip dogs thread.

This is a cool application for precise angle work. I would like to add that choosing holes further apart, say 5 or 6 spaces or more, will allow for more accurate settings without fretting over the exact accuracy of you spacer (gauge blocks  [wink]). If you cut your spacer to use holes as far apart as possible and then make miter cuts that are maybe only 5 inches long your accuracy could be many times better than the accuaracy of the spacer in the first place. As an example: your spacer is 1/32 longer than it should be but you use holes with 8 spaces between them and make a miter cut 4 inches long. It should be accurate to .004 of an inch over the length of the cut. Do the same trick with only 2 spaces between the setup and you need to cut the spacer within .008" to get the same accuracy.

 

[Michael Kellough]

This is a cool application for precise angle work. I would like to add that choosing holes further apart, say 5 or 6 spaces or more, will allow for more accurate settings without fretting over the exact accuracy of you spacer (gauge blocks  [wink]). If you cut your spacer to use holes as far apart as possible and then make miter cuts that are maybe only 5 inches long your accuracy could be many times better than the accuaracy of the spacer in the first place. As an example: your spacer is 1/32 longer than it should be but you use holes with 8 spaces between them and make a miter cut 4 inches long. It should be accurate to .004 of an inch over the length of the cut. Do the same trick with only 2 spaces between the setup and you need to cut the spacer within .008" to get the same accuracy.

Reminds me of an idea from a while back....

Similar to the sine bar idea you have a fixed reference dogs and an adjustable work fence.

The difficulty in using the sine bar idea is the need to make an extremely precise spacer/prop for offsetting the movable fence.

In this idea the work fence also pivots on a snug dog and adjustment is made by rotating an offset cam (which also uses a snug dog). The cam would have to be calibrated and marked with increments indicating how far a mark on the perimeter is from the pivot point.

The offset cam would have a limited range but as Greg suggested it can be placed in other holes.

I think the idea of an adjustable bar/prop (like a lockable slide rule) displaced the cam...

 

[Tinker]

I have no experience with trionometry.

In construction when laying out a square corner, we measure (in increments of) 3 feet for one side and 4 feet the other side of the desired 90º corner angle.  the hypotenuse should then equal 5 feet. In actual practice, we measured the sides as far as possible.  If we could measure 12 feet and 16 feet, the hypotenuse should be 20 feet.  If not, the angle should be widened or closed down until the hypotenuse does equal 20 feet. 

With my own experiments, i started with a hole under the rail, or just beyond the rail.  Then counted over (parallel to rail) 3 holes and then 4 holes in 90º direction.  Until I ran out of scraps for sample cutting, i was going by that method, except the diagonal spaces did not match up.  I was trying to work out a means for anybody with no more math background than i could work out the angles.  I was able to do 30º and 60º ok, but could not get other angles exact without using different types of dogs for each end of my fences.

I then started working from the rail and setting the fence at the common angles the Richard mentioned.  I have a thin plate  Angle Finder from hartville Hardware I have had for years.  The plate is very much the same as a discontinued item from Woodpecker.  i lined up my fence to the plate using a couple of dogs to line up the plate parallel to the rail.  My fence laid across the plate.  Using that method, i could, by using a different fence for each angle and sometimes several different types of dog Round but no extension and round with the extension of RMW's Rip Dogs. Also used Festool dogs and WorkMate dogs with flat faces. I could come close alignment of holes to angles in most cases, but I had to use different fences as well as use fence to different sides of dogs. 

I just decided that using dogs to line up fences to holes to get all of the angles I was looking for was a lot of hastle using my approach.  I ended up going to the MFT protractor and fence.  It takes less than five minutes t retrieve the combo out of storage, set up to correct angle and make the first cut.  I decided that what i was attempting would be of no value to anybody who would be moving from one site to another if they had to take a whole collection of fences and dogs along with them.  I decided the Festoy method still works the best.

I will dog-ear this discussion and get back to trying again when i have a few rainy days where I don't have to take care of my "day job".  I think Richard, Greg and others are closer to the answer than I have been.  I am sure a spacer can be made so that any angle can be determined by starting with a hole at the rail or anywhere and using a hole at far end of table, or the far rail of the MFT that can be very precise.  I think that would be much easier for a very small space shop that leaving the Festool Protractor tail hanging out into space to be bumped into every time one tries walking around the far side of the MFT.  Besides, with all of my dogs lying around, they need exercise. :
Tinker
Tinker

 

[rustym]

Kinda off the trig deal, but just used Richards Rip Dogs & Guide Dogs to crosscut a 24" piece of ply on the mft.  Perfectly square cut.  Keep up the good work Richard.

Thanks
Rusty

 

[rmwarren]

Thanks Rusty, appreciate the feedback. I did get your other message, still have not pulled the trigger on the MFT guide pin things but I am hoping to get to them.

Tinker, I basically cribbed all the Trig info from the web, outside being able to input the figures into the Trig app I am clueless. With that said, it is awfully simple, especially if you need some odd angle, you just input the hypotenuse and the angle and it calculates the rest.

Greg, great input on accuracy versus length of the spacer, thank you. I assumed there was a difference but had no way to quantify it. If I end up making this part it will have the accuracy (+/- .005") for the detents I envision, but anyone going with the spacer route would be better off using a longer one.

Since no one chimed on on detents for common angle I assume 0/15/22.5/30/45/60/67.5/75 will cover it.

Thanks for all the feedback.

RMW

 

[Tinker]

Those are the angles i was working with.
Tinker

 

[land_kel]

I think those should cover what most here will use.