Rip Dogs Redux

[richk]

Just wanted to report on my experience with the guide dogs, guide clips, and the fence guide bracket:

I chose to get 2 guide fence brackets, which locks the fence down really snug and absolutely square to the MFT holes.

The rip guide clips line up the track just great, about .004" off over 23+ inches, cutting 90 degrees. For smaller pieces, the track needs to be propped up with a piece of scrap. I have a hook on the wall nearby so when I lift the track off the work I have a place to put it that is out of the way.

The first set of rip guide clips weren't quite this accurate, but RMW was diligent working with me to a good resolution. As expected in this Festool crowd!

Looking forward to less fiddling with alignment and no more head bonks from the track!

RichK

 

[rmwarren]

Just wanted to report on my experience with the guide dogs, guide clips, and the fence guide bracket:

I chose to get 2 guide fence brackets, which locks the fence down really snug and absolutely square to the MFT holes.

The rip guide clips line up the track just great, about .004" off over 23+ inches, cutting 90 degrees. For smaller pieces, the track needs to be propped up with a piece of scrap. I have a hook on the wall nearby so when I lift the track off the work I have a place to put it that is out of the way.

The first set of rip guide clips weren't quite this accurate, but RMW was diligent working with me to a good resolution. As expected in this Festool crowd!

Looking forward to less fiddling with alignment and no more head bonks from the track!

RichK

Rich, thank you for the help figuring out what the issue was. I also learned that I need to do some QC on these parts when they come in from the CNC shop, the first batch was perfect so I was lulled into assuming they all would be.

If anyone is having trouble getting square cuts (+/- 0.005") please reach out to me via EM or PM and I will work thru the possible causes with you.

Thanks again Rich.

RMW

 

[greg mann]

Just wanted to report on my experience with the guide dogs, guide clips, and the fence guide bracket:

I chose to get 2 guide fence brackets, which locks the fence down really snug and absolutely square to the MFT holes.

The rip guide clips line up the track just great, about .004" off over 23+ inches, cutting 90 degrees. For smaller pieces, the track needs to be propped up with a piece of scrap. I have a hook on the wall nearby so when I lift the track off the work I have a place to put it that is out of the way.

The first set of rip guide clips weren't quite this accurate, but RMW was diligent working with me to a good resolution. As expected in this Festool crowd!

Looking forward to less fiddling with alignment and no more head bonks from the track!

RichK

Rich, thank you for the help figuring out what the issue was. I also learned that I need to do some QC on these parts when they come in from the CNC shop, the first batch was perfect so I was lulled into assuming they all would be.

If anyone is having trouble getting square cuts (+/- 0.005") please reach out to me via EM or PM and I will work thru the possible causes with you.

Thanks again Rich.

RMW

Ahhh. When everything is perfect there is only one direction it can go, eh?

 

[rmwarren]

Just wanted to report on my experience with the guide dogs, guide clips, and the fence guide bracket:

I chose to get 2 guide fence brackets, which locks the fence down really snug and absolutely square to the MFT holes.

The rip guide clips line up the track just great, about .004" off over 23+ inches, cutting 90 degrees. For smaller pieces, the track needs to be propped up with a piece of scrap. I have a hook on the wall nearby so when I lift the track off the work I have a place to put it that is out of the way.

The first set of rip guide clips weren't quite this accurate, but RMW was diligent working with me to a good resolution. As expected in this Festool crowd!

Looking forward to less fiddling with alignment and no more head bonks from the track!

RichK

Rich, thank you for the help figuring out what the issue was. I also learned that I need to do some QC on these parts when they come in from the CNC shop, the first batch was perfect so I was lulled into assuming they all would be.

If anyone is having trouble getting square cuts (+/- 0.005") please reach out to me via EM or PM and I will work thru the possible causes with you.

Thanks again Rich.

RMW

Ahhh. When everything is perfect there is only one direction it can go, eh?

Yep Greg, "perfect" is probably the wrong standard. "Within tolerance" is more accurate/realistic.

The tolerances specified were +/- .127mm/0.005" and some of the clips failed this test. On top of this I need to caliper each clip and select matched pairs either + or - the tolerance to prevent the error from doubling.

A lesson for me in expectations. Good thing this is woodworking and not rocket science...

RMW

 

[rmwarren]

Just an update that I added new photos showing the Rip Dogs in different configurations.

http://www.ripdogs.com/2013/11/01/recent-photos-of-the-dogs-guides-in-use/

RMW

 

[Kevinn]

Richard, I got some Parf Dogs 19.90 mm, it kinda loose in my MFT holes. What size are those dogs you made ? I am looking for some dogs fits tight on the MFT

 

[Peter Durand]

Richard, I got some Parf Dogs 19.90 mm, it kinda loose in my MFT holes. What size are those dogs you made ? I am looking for some dogs fits tight on the MFT

I have the Qwas dogs and they fit well.

 

[Kevinn]

Peter, What is the measurement ?

 

[rmwarren]

Kevinn,

My dogs are all 19.90mm. I believe this is the target dimension of all the "precision" dogs designed for the MFT/3.

Back when I developed these dogs, about 2 years ago, I had hoped to be able to use the tall dogs without needing to secure them from the bottom, this turned out to be impractical. Even with a tight fit the tall dogs will wobble or tilt slightly when the rail pushes against them. If this is the problem you are having then using knobs or thumbscrews to secure them should solve it.

In my own MFT/3 the holes vary slightly. About half will allow the dog to drop in from it own weight, the rest have the slightest bit of friction requiring a small push for them to slide in. I am guessing the difference to be < 0.05mm in diameter. I don't find this to affect the cuts needed for most common woodworking tolerances.

RMW

 

[CCRT]

Richard, I got some Parf Dogs 19.90 mm, it kinda loose in my MFT holes. What size are those dogs you made ? I am looking for some dogs fits tight on the MFT

I have the same observation.....

I also have a set of Qwas Dogs and they fit better without any side play.

Observation:
The Qwas Dogs have a slight taper at the top where the smaller diameter transitions to the head.
The Parf dogs have a sharp radius.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qf1fs517o9cdfta/QwasDawgs.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l6b6faomc6mv0sx/ParfDawgs.jpg

 

[Tinker]

I finally tried working in my shop yesterday unil I got a real sharp reminder of back problem.  I had set up RMW's rip dogs and my MFT fence.  I had the saw guide rail set with a secnd set of dogs and put my 12x 12 Squre on to check.  I was quite a bit out of square. 

I was setting up to cut 3/4" ply with 1/2" MDF strips under to keep from putting saw teeth into the MFT top(I use the same table for assembly and do not want kerf marks for glue to drop into)  I had placed the dogs into the MFT holes using both directions for 90º cuts.

The extensions on the rip dogs allow just enough movement in the dog holes to gide inaccurate results.  I used Festool knobs under one set and some bolts with washers uned the other set, tightened finger tight on the knobs and just a tad wwith a wrench of the bolts.  i checked with the square and the rail and fence were dead on square.

For rough work, the dogs may tip just a little without securing at bottom (under MFT), but for precision, they do need to be secured.
Once secured, they do not move and very close tollerances are repeatable.
Tinker

 

[rmwarren]

For rough work, the dogs may tip just a little without securing at bottom (under MFT), but for precision, they do need to be secured.
Once secured, they do not move and very close tollerances are repeatable.
Tinker

I think you are dead on.

RMW

 

[rljatl]

Richard, I got some Parf Dogs 19.90 mm, it kinda loose in my MFT holes. What size are those dogs you made ? I am looking for some dogs fits tight on the MFT

I have the same observation.....

I also have a set of Qwas Dogs and they fit better without any side play.

Observation:
The Qwas Dogs have a slight taper at the top where the smaller diameter transitions to the head.
The Parf dogs have a sharp radius.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qf1fs517o9cdfta/QwasDawgs.jpg
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l6b6faomc6mv0sx/ParfDawgs.jpg

FWIW, I have all three - Qwas, Richard's and the Parf dogs from Lee Valley, both short and tall.  Qwas, Richard's, and the tall Parf dogs all fit about the same with no side play.  However, the short Parf dogs are definitely loose.

 

[rmwarren]

Just added use instructions for the Rip Dogs @ www.ripdogs.com/downloads/.

RMW

 

[promark747]

I've been very happy with my Rip Dogs; they are the perfect blend of accuracy and speed.  I picked up some Parf Dogs as well (can't beat the price or quality), as I thought the extra height might help, but their larger diameter does not fit inside the Rip Guide Clips (not a fault of the Clips, of course, as they were designed for the thinner Rip Dogs).  I'm sure I'll find other uses for the Parfs.