ro 125 feq swirl marks

bailey01

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Messages
4
I have had the ro 125 feq  for awhile now and can not get a good finish with it. I use it with a ct 22 and do not know what I am doing wrong. I made some end grain cutting boards and started sanding with 80 grit and went up to 180 using every grit and had swirl marks show up when I finished it. Then I made some boxes out of cherry and started with 120 then 150,180,220 and still the marks show up when I start to finish the piece. I use the ct 22 with it, I use festool paper and do not skip grits. I move slow over the work pieces and have tried speeds from 3 to 6.
I have spent a lot of money to have nothing but a lot of wasted time and money. It is sad to say but I have had to pull out my $30 or $40 black and decker 1/4 sheet sander and get a better finish with less grits and a lot less time. The only good thing I have had with this sander so far is the dust control.  Can anyone help with this? Did I get a bad sander or is it how I am using it? I do not see what I am doing wrong.
Any help would we great. Oh and to let you know I am only using it in the ro mode not the gear driving rough mode.
Thanks, Cameron
 
You may have two possible problems. 

According to the way I read your post, you are only using the rough sanding mode.  I only use the rough mode for rough sanding, and generally switch to fine mode at 80 or 100 grit. 

The second possible problem could be that the vac setting is too high.  You don't need a lot of suction to get near dust free sanding. 
 
Cameron,

I have RO125 and have had nothing less than great results with it. I found that it can be quite aggressive compared to my previous sander. Because of this I generally start one grit higher.
 
Cameron,

Welcome to the forum.  Newcomers to the Rotex line do sometimes have a bit of a learning curve.  The suggestions address some of the things to try - especially turning down the suction and using the fine setting..  Also, try speeding up how you move the sander across the workpiece.  Additionally it is a good idea - if you aren't already doing it - to vac or sweep off your wood before moving to the next grit - just in case you get some coarse grit from the previous sanding caught in the new paper.  I learned that one the hard way.  [scared]

Hang in there, your frustration will turn to joy.

Peter
 
I have been using the fine sanding mode only and the vac is at 1/2 speed right now. I did noticed  that it did not flow as smooth  at full speed so I slowed it down.  plus I has tried faster and slower speeds on the sander it self. I do wipe down  the wood between grits also.
Thanks for all the fast replies and info.
 
It seems that if I move faster over the wood I get more swirl marks then when I move slower.
 
How do you hold the sander?

I hold a Rotex back by the hose connection and let it float over the work piece in RO mode. I'm lifting slightly because the weight of the hose and cord tend to tip the sander, which causes it to bite and veer off.

Tom
 
In my experience, how you hold the 125 is a key to not getting swirl marks.  Let the tool do the work - completely.  Less is more when it comes to pressure applied to the sander.  Move it across the piece at a rate of about 1" per second.  Don't put ANY downward pressure on the tool, just keep it flush with the work piece.

That and a very clean surface - as folks above have said - vacuum - should eliminate the swirlies.
 
I have exactly the same equipment as you- a RO 125 and a CT22. I found that when I first used the sander, if I were to lean slightly too much on one side of the sander it would create a swirl mark in that direction. The solution was to hardly lean at all on the sander and let it "float" over the surface. I do keep the sander moving constantly over the workpiece however.

I hope you figure out a solution soon, as once you do it will prove itself to be a great tool.

Richard.
 
bailey01 said:
I have had the ro 125 feq  for awhile now and can not get a good finish with it. I use it with a ct 22 and do not know what I am doing wrong. I made some end grain cutting boards and started sanding with 80 grit and went up to 180 using every grit and had swirl marks show up when I finished it. Then I made some boxes out of cherry and started with 120 then 150,180,220 and still the marks show up when I start to finish the piece.

Festool offer several different types of abrasive - can I ask which one you are using?

The Festool Abrasives Brochure is worth checking out, if nothing else to show the large choice of abrasives that are available.

There are two Festool-produced articles specifically about eliminating swirl marks which might be of use:

Swirl Marks on Sanded Work ? Why are they there?

The Battle against swirl marks

Also Jerry Work's Getting the Most from Festool Sanders is always worth reading, though it might well lead you to adding to your stable of sanders!

Forrest

 
I trust you are using random orbit mode and not rotary? I only get swirl marks of sorts with rotary mode. I also find that in RO mode, speeding it up makes the sander move very smoothly indeed.

The other cause is likely to be clogged sandpaper (swirls are often the accumulated gunk doing a random orbit motion while scratching the piece)
 
I hold the sander with two hands, left hand on the front and the right in the middle of the barrel. It sounds like I might be putting to much pressure on it. 
I have been looking at the ets125 to use as my finishing sander. I noticed it has a smaller stroke on it and is lighter.
Thanks
 
Let the sander do the work, no extra pressure is necessary particularly in random orbit mode.  No need to put any pressure on it.
 
Baily, I feel your pain and still have the same problems your having as I do REFINISHING not finishing. This is a great tool on white raw wood average on already finished wood. I have followed all of the suggestions mentioned by others and still have problems. When refinishing I clog paper to fast and create swirl marks, I have turned suction off when using 400/500 and up foam sanding pads and still have swirl marks I have been careful to not let weight of hose pull me off balance, still not getting results I want. ETC, ETC ! So here is my question, at what speeds do you sand high grit paper and what speed for lower grit (100,120, etc) ? New member but restore furniture for a living.

Terry
 
Forgot to ask this question ? Why no 1200/ 1500 paper when moving up in grit with RO 125 ? Goes from 1000 to 2000. That`s not going to get me where I want to go i.e. a smooth no scratch pattern (swirl marks) before I switch to rubbing compounds at 2000 grit. Why no grey fiber pads in approx. 800 grit for RO 125 only for RO 150 ? Can I use 6" fiber pad on 5" RO 125 ? Is there any hook and loop set up I can use so as to use other brand papers i.e. 3 M Gold with Rotex ? New and need advice !

Terry
 
OK, I`m having some temper so I have to remind myself to be humble and ask for help. I was asked to call Festool and was directed to someone who was going to help me. But they could not answer my questions after a 45 minute conversation I was left wondering if my expectations were out of line for usage of a Festool RO 125. Here`s what I want to accomplish;

Be able to work on collectible and antique existing surfaces i.e. fine refinishing with "PREDICTABILITY AND REPEATABILITY".
Example; Work on a 1820`s Duncan Phyle table top originally finished with a pine resin then down the line refinished with Shellac and or Lacquer.
Wood has expanded and contracted seasonally over 2 centuries, there are peaks and valleys. I need to level and knife off 1 to 2 mil. to get down to a harder surface so as to spray a reversible coat of Seal Coat Shellac then a lacquer top coat. All applications need to be reversible due to conservation ethics. Do I use a hard leveling pad ? I need a flat surface ! Can not use a soft pad as I need to level entire surface so when I apply wax it does not appear streaky or smeared due to light refraction. If you advertise a product that has sanding pads up to 4m grit what you are saying to me is I should be able to get to a HIGH GLOSS 90 degree sheen with no problem. I am using a HVLP spray unit of excellent quality to spray surface with. Finishing is easy, refinishing is very difficult. If I slow speed down I`m pulling the lacquer. I need to shear it off 1 to 2 thousands of and inch. If I go to high a speed I`m creating heat and clogging my sandpaper. Does festool have a open face paper so as to help with this ? Can I use wool lube and wet sand with Festool papers ? All suction turned off when going to a foam 400/500 pad. Should I use a wet sanding technique at this point ?I bought the 125 because of the fine sanding stroke instead of the 150. Man, if I can not get rid of swirls at lower grits what are my chances of doing a good job ? I have read the articles and have done what is suggested. Is this sander made for general carpentry ? If so why the high grits I spent a lot of money on. I do not skip grits not my nature or training. Should I have bough a National Detroit in line sander with compressor ? Every time I look at that $1500 worth of Festool gear I start swearing to myself. I have used mainly hand tools but have to switch to automatic due to carpel tunnel problems. I want this to work and am sure that someone can help me. But wonder if my idea of a fine refinishing tool is the same as their expectation. Also if I do not want to spray over existing finish and just wax can I do this without sanding swirls ? All sanding swirls will show at higher grit. I want to be able to look at surface in raking light and not see swirl marks. Have other questions but have to go hand sand a top and feel the pain. Easy Terry, temper, temper !

Terry

 
I do a lot antique refinishing and believe I understand the type of work you are doing.  I use an RO125 and HVLP for finishing [using a fine needle].  I've not had the problems you are having - though I have created some swirl marks. ;) my fair share actually.

I never wet sand and I do hand sand some places.

One of the temptations with the Rotex, IMO is to press too hard - that is the cause of most swirl marks.  Tsensitiveoo much pressure combined with a bit too coarse paper and a grain of coarser grit. This is especially true of the finer media.

I've used mine on very sensitive pieces, up to 2000 and if I do it properly, I have no problem.  If I get in a big hurry, then I sometimes have to redo it.  The old adage haste makes waste applies here, IMO.
 
Clint, I am not pressing to hard. I am letting the weight of the tool do the work. As mentioned I am aware of the balance and speed over surface area. How do you not clog the paper at hi speeds ? Hence the question about wet sanding to remove sanding particles as I sand.  Sir, I`m not trying to be a smart allect. But your response is very general. Can you please offer more detailed advice ? Just saying that you do this without telling me how is not teaching me how to use this gear. If you understand what I`m trying to do please educate me. I`m very teachable. You know as well as I do that Festool Brillant papers clog very easy and you have to pick out the soft surface particles just about every pass. Abrasives are a matter of personal choice. I do not like being forced to use one brand in order to use Festools equipment. Do you know of a way to use other papers with Festool sander ? I like wet sanding. Less abrasion and more predictable results. Many ways to restore again I am appreciative of your effort to help me. I want sharp, predictable lines when I hand sand. How do I get this result with this tool ? I want control of outcome without a redo. I do not want a rounded over effect with my papers. As any good restorer knows I change out my paper faster than others so as to not burnish the wood. Clint, my apologies if I`m a little irritated. I am going to practice some more because if others are getting good results it`s on me and my methods and not the equipment. I`m doing something wrong and have to identify it. lastly, I enjoy sanding, I know it`s the beginning of getting a superior result.

Terry
P.S.
Not much old stuff out here, it did`nt do to well in the back of a wagon. I`m coming from Philly and had friends at Winterthur the best furniture conservation program in the world bar none. Have you read Rivers and Umney`s book on furniture restoration ? Lots of chemistry to go with hand and eye skills.
 
Took this info off another site and have found this info very helpful. Baily, this may help you too. Concise, no opinion "it works for me and should work for you response"
It is important to consider some different factors whenever you are sanding. In no particualr order, here are some:

Wood species: Walnut is more forgiving than maple, oak sands different than cherry, and the technique you use on straight grain will not work on figured wood. Employ the technique, sander and abrasive germane to the species.

Technique: On an orbital sander you must always keep the sander moving to convert those tiny orbits into long ellipses which line up with the grain and disappear. If you are having trouble with your random orbital sander, try moving it in the same fashion, with a light hand in long, brisk strokes. Scratches are usually made in the coarser grits, deep below the surface. They are often not detected until the sanding done, with the assumption that they were caused by the final passes in the finer grits. Spend more time sanding with the coarser grits employing good technique, careful not to push the sander and dig deeply. Woodworkers generally tend to push with the coarser grits and lighten up on the fine ones. If anything, the opposite approach is be better. The pad must always spin freely for optimal results. Different sanders require different technique. If you are used to using one type of sander and have changed machines, you will need to employ different technique. Experiment and see what achieves best results. Some wood workers dampen the surface with water to raise the grain prior to the final pass.

Sander: Festool sells a dozen sanders for good reason, so you will always have the right sander for the job and achieve best results. It may be that the sander is not best suited to the task. It may be that using a different sander, or using different sanders at each stage creates better results faster. The amount of suction by the vac affects sander performance and surface quality. The 125 is a fairly small pad and the CT at full suction can make that pad tend to stick to the workpiece. I know, you are not using the sander, only the small paper filter bag supplied with the sander. That dc is powered by the sander's fan and is not efficient in removing all the dust off the workpiece. I have used that filter bag less than a handful of times in all the years I am using the sanders - to me it's to be used only when there ain't no room to use a vac - and it doesn't have to be a Festool vac either. Always use the optimal sander for the task, along with good technique, and you are assured excellent results.

Abrasive: Rubin has a thicker backing than Brilliant, and so is stiffer. It has a heavy top coat which prevents wood fiber from attaching, which helps it to cut better. But that irregular surface can be less forgiving than the more uniform Brilliant. You can sand pine or walnut with the open-coated Cristal and achieve a good surface quality, but to use Cristal on maple or cherry would create deep scratches which would require bringing the entire surface down to disappear. If you are having trouble with Rubin, try Brilliant, and visa versa. Matching the abrasive to the application is key. When the abrasive is caked up, get rid of it.
Overusing a disc will burnish the surface. A contaminated disc will deface. Fresh paper creates fine results. Most important, don?t skip grits. When you are sanding, you are creating a finer and finer scratch pattern. Each step is necessary for perfect results. When you skip grits you are not effectively covering your tracks, and it will show in the results. Working successively through the grits, you will not only achieve better results, but you will spend less time sanding in the end.

Finish: Using a dark stain on a light wood species will bring out any surface imperfections. While a clear coat on the same surface won?t show a sign. If you want to go dark, start dark, you will achieve better results. Not all stains are created equal; always use the finest products for best results. Finishes have a shelf life, too. Surface contamination can create problems. How about trying a sanding sealer to reduce surface imperfections? Never apply finish before you test the surface, you can wipe it down with alcohol or paint thinner or water first, and that will reveal any scratches. It is also good to use a side light, a strong light cast at a low angle which will also show you any surface irregularities. Correct as you go.

Having said all of the above, this doesn't mean that any sander (even Festool sanders) can't develop problems, or have a problem to start with (countrweights/brakes, brushes, etc.), but you have plenty (at least 30 days) of time to use the tool and if you sense their is a problem, or something ain't right, call your dealer or give Festool's Service Department a holler. They are always ready to help in any way they can, but no one can help, if they are unaware of the possible problem/issue you have.

Bob
__________________
bob marino
www.bobmarinosbesttools.com
Terry
 
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