I am having issues with my sander creating swirl marks. The sander was not functioning properly in random orbit mode so I had it sent to Festool for repairs. It seems to be working properly but it creates swirl marks now. I am using Festool abrasives, holding the sander properly, lowered the vacuum setting, etc. The sandpaper seems to clog up with wood dust, is that normal? I feel like that may be part of the issue. I also find the sander hard to control unless I use the softer pad that I purchased.
RO 125 swirls and unstable
- Thread starter shrtbordr
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As Alan said [welcome] to the FOG.
More information after how you are sanding would be great, but as another suggestion, personally I see this as one of those perfect situations where a telephone call to one of the Festool technical application specialists might be the most time efficient for you in narrowing down the cause and improving your performance. Sometimes a telephone conversation does work better. I am sure that they will ask about break in period, wood species, paper selection, starting grit selection and progression, sanding in a pattern or random, speed, vac speed, cleaning off the surface between grits, etc. - any of which can be part of what you are experiencing and can add up.
Let us know some more information or give us an update.
Peter
More information after how you are sanding would be great, but as another suggestion, personally I see this as one of those perfect situations where a telephone call to one of the Festool technical application specialists might be the most time efficient for you in narrowing down the cause and improving your performance. Sometimes a telephone conversation does work better. I am sure that they will ask about break in period, wood species, paper selection, starting grit selection and progression, sanding in a pattern or random, speed, vac speed, cleaning off the surface between grits, etc. - any of which can be part of what you are experiencing and can add up.
Let us know some more information or give us an update.
Peter
1toolshort
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Yeah, I just posted in another thread the exact same issue. I've had my 125 for two years and it has been the same thing on all the projects. I just assumed it was my inexperience. But I never had the issue with any other RO sander I've used!! I turned down my vacuum (mini) after reading on this forum, and it really did not help so much. I will read any suggestions on here with great interest.
WarnerConstCo.
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I do my finish sanding with my RO125 in Rotex mode with 150g rubin. No swirls, no marks, takes mere seconds.
Only time I use a random orbit sander is for sanding between coats.
Only time I use a random orbit sander is for sanding between coats.
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Having spent alot of time with the RO125, and trained my employees on it and all the Rotexes, I would find what you are describing to be unusual. The RO125 is a sporty little sander, and pretty user friendly. I have found that most people get in trouble with it when they use habits that they used on inferior tools in the past, like applying pressure, using an edge to gain rpm, or not feeling the pattern that the sander is vibrating in. If you go against it, it will win. If it wins a wrestling match with you, swirls will be your Scarlet Letter.
I have the same problem as "shortborder" and "1toolshort". Chatter and wobble has been unbelievable. I purchased a RO 125 to replace a beltsander and a old PC333. I may have not done enough "due deligence". In the past few weeks, I began to second guess my decision to buy the RO 125. I have gone back and researched all old posts on the RO 125. It appears as if there has been problems of this sort going back for about 5 years. "Day late and a dollar short on my part".
I have only used Rubin(80 thru 180 grit). I have used it on Red Oak, mahogany, cherry, and cypress. Today, I went back to the worn out old PC333(5 hole) hooked up to the CT36 to clean up a project. It worked great using Mirka Gold. On rougn sawn cherry in the Rotex mode using 80 grit grit it was very agressive. Harded to handle than a floor buffer that I mastered in 1964. I have changed speeds and dialed down the suction on the CT36.
Some of the threads on the RO 125 from the past search suggest that the soft pad MAY have a set in them. Some threads suggest that a person should wait a period of time for the brushes to "break-in". Some posters on this thread have stated that they trained their people on the correct method to use the RO 125. I am more than willing to be trained.
I have considered selling the RO 125 and purchasing the ETS125. But the ETS125 is not available with a hard pad. The RO 125 hard pad will not work with ETS125. The ETS 125 does not work for polishing. So what do I do? Throw out a couple of big bills worth of sandpaper, polishing pads and a hard pad and discount the RO 125 and start over?
Is it possible that the RO 125 has problems that may or may not to handled in a satisfactory manner by calling Festool service? Is it possible that "some" RO125 have a balance problem?
I have only used Rubin(80 thru 180 grit). I have used it on Red Oak, mahogany, cherry, and cypress. Today, I went back to the worn out old PC333(5 hole) hooked up to the CT36 to clean up a project. It worked great using Mirka Gold. On rougn sawn cherry in the Rotex mode using 80 grit grit it was very agressive. Harded to handle than a floor buffer that I mastered in 1964. I have changed speeds and dialed down the suction on the CT36.
Some of the threads on the RO 125 from the past search suggest that the soft pad MAY have a set in them. Some threads suggest that a person should wait a period of time for the brushes to "break-in". Some posters on this thread have stated that they trained their people on the correct method to use the RO 125. I am more than willing to be trained.
I have considered selling the RO 125 and purchasing the ETS125. But the ETS125 is not available with a hard pad. The RO 125 hard pad will not work with ETS125. The ETS 125 does not work for polishing. So what do I do? Throw out a couple of big bills worth of sandpaper, polishing pads and a hard pad and discount the RO 125 and start over?
Is it possible that the RO 125 has problems that may or may not to handled in a satisfactory manner by calling Festool service? Is it possible that "some" RO125 have a balance problem?
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Trosey, shrtbordr, 1toolshort (sorry if I missed anyone)
Welcome to the FOG! [smile]
Sorry you are all having trouble [eek] I have the RO150 , and I have not used the RO125. If the trouble is not with the sander itself. All I can say is that the ROTEXs can take some getting used to. It took me a while to get the RO150 to do my bidding. But I have got it now, and couldn't be happier with the performance.
After the break in I have had no trouble in random orbit mode. That is nearly as smooth running as the ETS150 and certainly no control problems.
In the Rotex (aggresive mode) I found that striking the correct amount of pressure or more like "holding force" in the right direction to balance things out just took time and practice. I have used it with both hard and soft pads.
Not sure what else to tell you. But you are in the best place to get it figured out. [thumbs up]
Seth
Welcome to the FOG! [smile]
Sorry you are all having trouble [eek] I have the RO150 , and I have not used the RO125. If the trouble is not with the sander itself. All I can say is that the ROTEXs can take some getting used to. It took me a while to get the RO150 to do my bidding. But I have got it now, and couldn't be happier with the performance.
After the break in I have had no trouble in random orbit mode. That is nearly as smooth running as the ETS150 and certainly no control problems.
In the Rotex (aggresive mode) I found that striking the correct amount of pressure or more like "holding force" in the right direction to balance things out just took time and practice. I have used it with both hard and soft pads.
Not sure what else to tell you. But you are in the best place to get it figured out. [thumbs up]
Seth
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Seth's point about the breakin period is one to keep in mind. We have seen all of our sanders show less attitude after 6 hours of use.
Here is a video clip of our RO125 in gear driven mode doing material removal with one handed operation. You can see that its not unruly, and its not a white knuckle ride.
Festool RO125 in Rotex Mode: One Hand Operation
Here is a video clip of our RO125 in gear driven mode doing material removal with one handed operation. You can see that its not unruly, and its not a white knuckle ride.
Festool RO125 in Rotex Mode: One Hand Operation
mouppe
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Trosey et al,
The easiest way to control a Rotex is one hand on the head and one hand towards the back just in front of the power cord. If you are getting swirl marks and the rotex is shuddering it is most likely because the pad is being tilted as you move the rotex side to side. Try slowing your lateral movement down and letting the rotex do the work.
Richard.
The easiest way to control a Rotex is one hand on the head and one hand towards the back just in front of the power cord. If you are getting swirl marks and the rotex is shuddering it is most likely because the pad is being tilted as you move the rotex side to side. Try slowing your lateral movement down and letting the rotex do the work.
Richard.
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Here's an article about how to hold the Rotex and describes the technique Richard describes.
http://blog.festoolusa.com/post/2011/02/18/Why-Technique-Matters.aspx
As for the swirl marks, and I missed this bit in the other thread where you posted, 50 grit is very, very aggressive. If you're moving between grits too quickly, you may be leaving scratches from the previous grit. Be sure to spend enough time on each grit. Cover the entire surface, left to right then top to bottom with the sander moving a couple of inches per second.
http://blog.festoolusa.com/post/2011/02/18/Why-Technique-Matters.aspx
As for the swirl marks, and I missed this bit in the other thread where you posted, 50 grit is very, very aggressive. If you're moving between grits too quickly, you may be leaving scratches from the previous grit. Be sure to spend enough time on each grit. Cover the entire surface, left to right then top to bottom with the sander moving a couple of inches per second.
EWTHeckman
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Shane Holland said:
I struggled with my RO 125 at first, too. What I finally settled on was a combination of photos 2 & 3 from that link. Actually, I use a minor variation of photo 2 where I put my right hand on the back of the sander with my index finger looped inside the handle. My left hand lightly grips the front. Looping the hose over my shoulder made a big difference, to the point where I can even take my left hand completely off from time to time.
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Ed hit on an important point...
The biggest problem I've seen with the Rotex sanders in random orbital mode is that the weight of the hose and cord throw off their balance. It is more pronounced with them than an ETS and that's likely because of the long tail. The hose has much more leverage way out there. Using a boom arm, suspending the hose from the ceiling, or just putting it over your shoulder will help a lot.
I use the RO 150 a lot in RO mode and generally hold it at the tail with one hand. Like Ed said, I hook my index finger through the loop and let the sander do the work. All I'm really trying to do is balance it and slightly "drive" it around with small changes in its attitude. It works really well and is sort of a pleasant experience.
I haven't put a lot of time on the RO 125 but I found that a similar technique also works well for the RO 90.
In the aggressive, gear-driven orbital mode, it can take 2 hands but even then, you can float it with one hand. I usually use 2 hands in that mode because I'm applying pressure for stock removal and that's when you have to control it.
Tom
The biggest problem I've seen with the Rotex sanders in random orbital mode is that the weight of the hose and cord throw off their balance. It is more pronounced with them than an ETS and that's likely because of the long tail. The hose has much more leverage way out there. Using a boom arm, suspending the hose from the ceiling, or just putting it over your shoulder will help a lot.
I use the RO 150 a lot in RO mode and generally hold it at the tail with one hand. Like Ed said, I hook my index finger through the loop and let the sander do the work. All I'm really trying to do is balance it and slightly "drive" it around with small changes in its attitude. It works really well and is sort of a pleasant experience.
I haven't put a lot of time on the RO 125 but I found that a similar technique also works well for the RO 90.
In the aggressive, gear-driven orbital mode, it can take 2 hands but even then, you can float it with one hand. I usually use 2 hands in that mode because I'm applying pressure for stock removal and that's when you have to control it.
Tom
1toolshort
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Shane,
I took to heart comments made yesterday. Went out to the shop early and worked some uncooperative oak I was "trying" to resaw yesterday. I sped up the dial to 6, put in Rubin 80 and focussed on keeping it flat in ROTEX mode. Oh yeah, took the vacuum to pointing to the turtle, almost. I think it was a huge improvement.....Poured some tung oil on it and found no swirls. I have been doing a fair amount of refinishing, so thus the 50 grit for paint/stain removal. But I think putting all the comments to work made a big difference. Many thanks.
BTW, I spent a long time choosing between the 125 and 150. The main reason I chose the 125 was ease of use with one hand. Not sure that has ended up the case, but if I can wrangle it from now on, it will have been a wise choice...[attachthumb=#]
I took to heart comments made yesterday. Went out to the shop early and worked some uncooperative oak I was "trying" to resaw yesterday. I sped up the dial to 6, put in Rubin 80 and focussed on keeping it flat in ROTEX mode. Oh yeah, took the vacuum to pointing to the turtle, almost. I think it was a huge improvement.....Poured some tung oil on it and found no swirls. I have been doing a fair amount of refinishing, so thus the 50 grit for paint/stain removal. But I think putting all the comments to work made a big difference. Many thanks.
BTW, I spent a long time choosing between the 125 and 150. The main reason I chose the 125 was ease of use with one hand. Not sure that has ended up the case, but if I can wrangle it from now on, it will have been a wise choice...[attachthumb=#]
nehardwoodfloors
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We bought one for our company. It went back after day2. Unstable and chattery. My ro150 never did this.
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1toolshort said:
Glad that the forum and its members were able to help you out. [thumbs up] [thumbs up]
Eco-Options said:
Thank you for making my point.
It certainly appears that SOME of the RO125 are more unstable that their more powerful big brothers. I have read more complaints on the RO 125 than the RO 150 and the RO 90 combined(many fold over).
To repeat what I asked earlier( in this thread).......Is it POSSIBLE that SOME of the RO 125 are so out of balance that that no matter how much "break-in" time nor how much control and "driving" is done correctly the RO 125 will still run off into the ditch?
Just asking! Is it possible?
Trosey
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Trosey, and anyone else who has an RO 125 and is having issues...
First, we have a 30 day money back guarantee, which I encourage customers to take advantage of if they're concerned about the performance of a tool. It makes the purchase risk free.
We have a three year warranty. Please take advantage of it. The turn around is very quick for repairs and during the first year we pay shipping both ways.
I am in close communications with the service department and while I'm certainly not trying to dismiss those who are having legitimate issues, there is a minuscule percentage of RO 125 that get returned or sent in for repair, virtually none. So, while there may be some issues (and there's no way to have a 0% problem rate), I'm quite confident that we don't have a faulty design or tool in general.
But, that's what the service department is there for, to help you resolve these types of issues if you experience them.
Shane
First, we have a 30 day money back guarantee, which I encourage customers to take advantage of if they're concerned about the performance of a tool. It makes the purchase risk free.
We have a three year warranty. Please take advantage of it. The turn around is very quick for repairs and during the first year we pay shipping both ways.
I am in close communications with the service department and while I'm certainly not trying to dismiss those who are having legitimate issues, there is a minuscule percentage of RO 125 that get returned or sent in for repair, virtually none. So, while there may be some issues (and there's no way to have a 0% problem rate), I'm quite confident that we don't have a faulty design or tool in general.
But, that's what the service department is there for, to help you resolve these types of issues if you experience them.
Shane
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Trosey, I had read your post already. My replies were more in general than to you specifically since we had multiple people talking about similar issues.
I'd like to have your name and know when you send your sander in so that I can talk with the service department when it arrives so I'm up to speed on any findings. My personal apologies for the frustration you've experienced. I have full confidence that we'll determine the cause of the issues and get it resolved for you. Please PM or email me your info.
I would like to apologize because I have been less involved in the forum this week. And, I will probably be completely absent from it next week as I'll be traveling.
Shane
I'd like to have your name and know when you send your sander in so that I can talk with the service department when it arrives so I'm up to speed on any findings. My personal apologies for the frustration you've experienced. I have full confidence that we'll determine the cause of the issues and get it resolved for you. Please PM or email me your info.
I would like to apologize because I have been less involved in the forum this week. And, I will probably be completely absent from it next week as I'll be traveling.
Shane
