RO 90 Review in JLC

[ericbuggeln]

CC, what I was getting at was after I spend all my money getting Festools, I dont have the extra $500 for expenses, plus registration, plus a couple of days off work to attend Festool classes. In a perfect world I would have already been at all of them, but not financially possible. Based on some of your posts and equipment collection, i dont think we are in the same tax bracket. BuilderBob and I still maintain that we will attend one of these days, maybe split a hotel room.

I have seen Steve and Brian demonstrate before, love those guys. BuilderBob and I are in an eight person class down state on the "Chaos Theory" in Aug. I will post our findings, Eric

 

[Scott B.]

What grit, I'm interested in using my 90 for similar situations

Sheepskin and foam are handy to have around. We have also customized white vlies from larger sizes as needed.

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[rmwarren]

I've been watching lots of video on surfboard making (mainly looking ad wooden surfboard making techniques ... but general shaping as well).

The sort of things you see the average surfboard shaper do with a power planer, circular saw and a sander would give sleepless nights!  [eek]

... lovely results though  [smile]

Anyway, a RO90 would be a perfect tool for the custom surfboard maker ... though you may end up seeing a few of them holding it with their teeth.

Because they already lost all their fingers...?  [wink]

 

[Brice Burrell]

What grit, I'm interested in using my 90 for similar situations

Now, let's talk about the merits of the RO 90. [smile]

Merits:

- it is the only tool for exterior spindle rail preparation
- in addition to the 3 functions it is most famous for, it can also do some interesting things with interface pads.

You got that right.  I once used the RO90 interface pad with viles  (in Rotex mode) to clean the most disgusting bathtub I've ever seen. [scared]

If you're talking about the bathtub, I believe I used the 100 grit.  I did use the interface pad and Viles  for the RO125 and a liquid cleanser (Soft Scrub).  The bigger pad worked fine in the tub.

 

[Kev]

I've been watching lots of video on surfboard making (mainly looking ad wooden surfboard making techniques ... but general shaping as well).

The sort of things you see the average surfboard shaper do with a power planer, circular saw and a sander would give sleepless nights!  [eek]

... lovely results though  [smile]

Anyway, a RO90 would be a perfect tool for the custom surfboard maker ... though you may end up seeing a few of them holding it with their teeth.

Because they already lost all their fingers...?  [wink]

LOL

That could be one reason.

I suppose thee's a very wide cross section of people out there making surfboards with power tools, breathing in the dusk from sanding down foam blanks and the fumes from epoxy compounds. Some do it right though and observe safety methods.

 

[Dan Clark]

I read the JLC article and have little to disagree with.    OTOH...  I don't find the RO90 switch to be difficult to work with.  It turns out that I have a MultiMaster too.  For those times when you need cutting ability in a tight space, it is matchless.  Just excellent.  But for sanding...

If all you have is a MultiMaster, then it works well.  But compared to an RO90...  NOT!  It works OK, but the back and forth motion makes more difficult to sand into corners  The selection of sandpaper for the MM is very mediocre at best.  The MM dust collection is a complete joke and it gets in the way.  With the large selection of paper and grits, the number of round pads, and the two delta, the RO90's flexibility is way, WAY better!  I love my MultiMaster but would never use it for any kind sanding except maybe detailing with the small tubular pads.  And I rarely have a need for that.

Regards,

Dan. 

 

[Johncarlo]

I read the JLC article and have little to disagree with.    OTOH...  I don't find the RO90 switch to be difficult to work with.   It turns out that I have a MultiMaster too.   For those times when you need cutting ability in a tight space, it is matchless.  Just excellent.  But for sanding...

If all you have is a MultiMaster, then it works well.   But compared to an RO90...  NOT!   It works OK, but the back and forth motion makes more difficult to sand into corners   The selection of sandpaper for the MM is very mediocre at best.   The MM dust collection is a complete joke and it gets in the way.  With the large selection of paper and grits, the number of round pads, and the two delta, the RO90's flexibility is way, WAY better!   I love my MultiMaster but would never use it for any kind sanding except maybe detailing with the small tubular pads.   And I rarely have a need for that.

Dan.  

I agree, WAY better! The RO90 is a must have.

 

[sancho57]

though i didn't read the review there is a good point in the reaction folks here have of it.

i dont put a lot of weight on the reviews.

even the old one on track saw in fhb

it left a lot to be desired to.

just take it as one persons opinion and keep in  mind that person may or may not be qualified to make a valid recommendation.

 

[sancho57]

Ok I feel better today, so I read the article.  I really dont see anything wrong with what the author wrote. Other then not knowing how to change pad from round to delta.

I sometimes forget how to do it, but there is a visual on the sander itself showing how to twist it off and on.

 

[TA455HO]

I hear you on the extra money. I'm in Washington state and am signed up for the September Intro class in Vegas. I'm trying to do it as inexpensively as possible. $200 for registration. I'm staying at the Sunset Station because it is cheaper than any place on the strip (no surprise there) and because they pick up at this hotel at 7:30 AM for the classes so I should be fine with no rental car (hopefully). Flight and hotel are $253, which seemed like a decent price for two nights. Meals and a couple of taxi rides will take me up over $500. Luckily I do get paid time off from work so that helps some. Wife is not thrilled that I'm going to Vegas without her. I keep reminding her I'm going to Henderson...

CC, what I was getting at was after I spend all my money getting Festools, I dont have the extra $500 for expenses, plus registration, plus a couple of days off work to attend Festool classes. In a perfect world I would have already been at all of them, but not financially possible. Based on some of your posts and equipment collection, i dont think we are in the same tax bracket. BuilderBob and I still maintain that we will attend one of these days, maybe split a hotel room.

I have seen Steve and Brian demonstrate before, love those guys. BuilderBob and I are in an eight person class down state on the "Chaos Theory" in Aug. I will post our findings, Eric

 

[sancho57]

You will not be sorry you took that class.

Steve is awesome.

Just get ready to buy a domino when ya get home.

BTW Steve will have bananas , muffins, coffee etc there for breakfast both days and will pick up the tab for lunch both days and dnner the first night.

So for food (unless you snack a lot) will be pretty much covered except for the 2nd nights meal.

 

[TA455HO]

Thanks for the extra info. That helps a lot. Luckily I already have a Domino so it will have to be something else...question is what.  [scared]

 

[sancho57]

I wrote a review of the Intro to Festool class and just did a search for itand found it.

Ya night want to read it.

buuutttt looking at your list,

im guessing Kapex, boom arm, work center, paralell guides, OF2200 or 1010,

it isnt gonna be cheap buddy believe me

 

[TA455HO]

I added the work center to my list. Forgot about that one. The wife bought that for me and didn't realize it came with all the shelves and hooks so she bought me what amounts to a second round of everything except the main portion that straps on the CT36. I use almost all of it.

I figured you'd mention Kapex. I sure think about it often. The old DeWalt 708 12" CSM is outside in a breezeway area because of all the dust it makes. It's not generally allowed in the shop. It's not extremely accurate and has no lasers. It has been a work horse, though, and even if I got the Kapex I'd probably keep the DW just for rough work and cutting 6x material.

Parallel guides sound interesting. I've never seen them in action. I have no table saw.

Routers - I've got a soft spot for routers. I've got the two PC 690 routers that I switched to short power cords to use the PC D-handles. I use those with the PC dovetail jig primarily, with a different bit in each one as needed so I don't have to switch or readjust much in a given session. Then I have a fairly old Craftsman Pro 3.5HP in a same era full-height Craftsman aluminum table. I use that for everything up to raising panels. It's got this great spindle lock so it only needs one wrench. And it has a threaded plunge adjustment which moves it up and down in the table without the table itself having any sort of lift. Sort of a neat older system.

 

[sancho57]

In the class Steve will give you a great overview of the tools before you use them, on uses, set up adjustments etc so you will have a good understanding of each of the tools you'll use.

what you'll do in the class is use the TS 55 cut pieces from a sheet of MDF using a cuttlist created by Steve.

You'll the TS 55 and guite rails w/ paralell guides for that.( If i remember correctly).

You'll use the Kapex, for cutting to length, the TS55 and or the Kapex for cutting 45 edges, and the domino for joining the pieces together.

I have a pc 690 with the plunge base and D-handle.

Since I got the 1010 I havent touched the 690, no need to.

Especially when I found how light and easy the 1010 is and the dust collection it provides.

I have a PC 7815 mounted in my router table.

I havent use it very much since I got the 1010 either.

But Ill keep the 7815 and use it solely as a table mounted router.

Im getting rid of the router table and make one tab I can set inbetween my 2 MFTs to save space.

Oh I also think you'll play with the LR 32 system too. Not sure but I think.

 

[Julian Tracy]

I haven't read the review, but have at times wondered about the best way/technique to use a few of my Festool's.  And certainly, the manuals are just about useless, I agree.

But I just can't get over how silly it sounds to suggest you should go to a class to learn the aforementioned list of basic woodworking tasks.

No doubt the Kapex is a great saw (I do not own it yet), but seriously, a few lessons in how to cut to length and perform a 45 degree miter operation??

As for the Rotex90, I have it and in general think it's about the handiest little sander I have.  I've owned the original Multimaster for about 15 years and never cared for it much for sanding.  

The Rotex modes on either the 90 or 150 can get a bit tricky to handle at times, but you adjust the settings and technique and figure it out.

I've no doubt I'd pick up tons of tips and whatnot at a Festool class, and if one was near me, I'd probably pay close to $150 or so to attend.  But to suggest that most users "ought" to attend (to the tune of $500++) to get the best use out of relatively basic power handtools seems a bit ludicrous.

If we were speaking of the large Euro 5-function sliding table shaper/saw/mortisers, etc, maybe I could see a class as a general new owner's 1st step.  But except for those who just like spending their money on Green tools and hanging out with others who are like minded, I can't see it as a prerequisite to efficient operation.

If there's some basic tips and tricks to using the tools - here's an idea -- how having the owner's manual's address it?  Add a section headed: usability, with the all the fancy tips and techniques.

Buy a tool, figure out how to make it do what you need it to do.  If needed, modify or enhance to further tweak it to your needs.  No class necessary, right?

Julian

Edit:  Just read the review.  I have no issues with his writeup of the tool, though I wouldn't have made a point of telling everyone how long it took me to figure out the pad switch...  Sure the Fein tool WOULD be smoother in use, but that certainly doesn't make it as efficient or fast in sanding tight spaces. I think for a short-form review it was fair balanced and in general positive.  I can't see why there's so much discussion surrounding this?  They're TOOLS, not your children!

 

[ccarrolladams]

Go get some training to learn efficient ways of using your Festools or do not get such training. That is your choice. You invested a lot of money in your tools. To me it is a wise business decision to invent in tool-specific training.

Before they came to work for me all of my cabinet makers were long-time Festool users. Actually I might be the most recent Festool convert in my shop, since I bought my first TS55 in early 2006. Fortunately my dealer took the time to explain how I could best adapt my experience with conventional circular saws to the plunge/track saw TS55 with its trailing dust extraction hose. Better yet, my dealer holds an open house 2 Saturdays a month. Sure they will write orders during those times, but the main thing is a bunch of very experienced hobby and professional woodworkers get together to share tips about using tools.

Maybe I have custom cabinet competitors who do not take continuing education/training as seriously. That is their loss.

To me Festool is a system, which starts with some really good engineers/designers, has excellent people building and testing the tools at the factory, has many trained dealers and FOG. Certainly a major part of this system is training. I consider Steve Bace and Brian "The Sedge" Sedgeley good friends and the training from them a major competitive edge.

 

[Julian Tracy]

Sorry, but I'm not sure my "dealer" can give me much advice when he's in a store selling and I'm on my job building cabinets from scratch.  Surely that's a generalization, but the majority of dealers are just that, and not craftsman.

But I can definitely see the value of conversating with other users and sharing tips and working techniques - how can that NOT be beneficial?

But the topic wasn't sharing and learning new techniques from your peers on a Sat at the woodworking store - it was spending $500+ and taking a 2-day info-mercial "seminar" and getting worked up to buy $140 vac hoses and $500 extra MFTs to gain more general worksurface in the shop...  That's my contention - that you shouldn't and don't need to figure a 2day seminar into the purchase of these tools to start using them as they were designed. 

Hey - make it a working vacation - I can see that, but I'd rather be at the beach with my kid...

They start having them near me at a reasonable cost - sign me up.  When they start a mini-class in how to excel at using your cxs drill - no thanks.

JT

 

[ccarrolladams]

Sorry, but I'm not sure my "dealer" can give me much advice when he's in a store selling and I'm on my job building cabinets from scratch.  Surely that's a generalization, but the majority of dealers are just that, and not craftsman.

But I can definitely see the value of conversating with other users and sharing tips and working techniques - how can that NOT be beneficial?

But the topic wasn't sharing and learning new techniques from your peers on a Sat at the woodworking store - it was spending $500+ and taking a 2-day info-mercial "seminar" and getting worked up to buy $140 vac hoses and $500 extra MFTs to gain more general worksurface in the shop...  That's my contention - that you shouldn't and don't need to figure a 2day seminar into the purchase of these tools to start using them as they were designed. 

Hey - make it a working vacation - I can see that, but I'd rather be at the beach with my kid...

They start having them near me at a reasonable cost - sign me up.  When they start a mini-class in how to excel at using your cxs drill - no thanks.

JT

The characteristic of a Festool End User Class as an "infomercial" verges on the tort of defamation of business and professional reputation. That is so not what Steve Bace and Brian Sedgeley are all about.

As I always say, I will successfully run my business according to accepted business principles, expanding on my own education and experience. You are most welcome to run you business as you see fit.

 

[Tinker]

I would have no intention to spend a few hundred $$$ for classes to use any woodworking tools.  For me, WW'ing is just a hobby.  If i am going to spend money on classes and seminars, it would have to be for some landscaping classes.  there are a whole lot of new bugs and weeds that I need to learn about.

CC, you are right when discussing the do/do not problems of WW'ing classes when talking to the professionals.  I do the same for my business.  So far, there are Brice,Paul Half Inch Shy, Rick Christofferson and Jerry Work who give excellent reviews and instructions that I can see from right here at my computer while sipping a glass of wine or a cold one.

For me, it is a matter of close budgeting just to be able to afford the tools for WW'ing. I enjoy using the tools and will continue to spend more for Festoys and then stuggle to figure how best to put them to work.  I've always been a good observer. The extra $$$ for classes is an expense i just cannot budget for.  I am sure i am not alone.
Tinker