Rotex 150 or BS75 for sanding down tables and benches?

[RC]

I'm planning my holiday projects and those involve sanding down a couple of solid wood tables and benches for re-lacquering. I have a RO90 and an ETS150/3 but I'm not sure if I'll have a good time roughing up the old boat lacquer off the 12 sq.m. of surface with the ETS.

So I've been looking at my options for a suitable tool for the removal of old stuff and it seems, after a little chat with the local Festool rep, that my options would basically boil down to one of their belt sanders or an RO150. To my understanding the belt sanders with the sanding frame would produce a level tabletop and remove material very aggressively whereas the Rotex would require more from the user to get a flat surface with a hard pad. Then on the other hand my understanding is that a belt sander without the frame is about as hard to use tool as a sander can be.

Now the problem that I see with these choises is that the BS75 comes in a ginormous Maxi Systainer (hard to store) and costs about as much as the RO150 and is a one hit wonder in only doing level surfaces. On the other hand the RO150 requires some skill from the operator and at least theoretically could be used for other things like vaxing the cars and buffing if I've understood correctly.

How hard would you, who have done this kind of large surface sanding, rate using a RO150 to do the job vs. a belt sander?

Could a hobbyist keep a table straight with a Rotex and benefit from the secondary uses of the tool or should I look into a framed belt sander for this sort of thing just to be on the safe side?

And how much slower would the sanding be if I put something like 60 grit Granat on my ETS/3 and sand away with that instead of buying more tools? Would we be talking minutes/hours/days or difference?

 

[Connollyir]

Reiska,

12m^2 is a pretty large area, but I think you can make due with what you already have.

I also have the RO90 - I chose it because its small size fits better with my remodeling jobs and it had the delta pad. I used that sander along with my HL850 to plane down and sand a trestle table, probably close to 8m^2 total area, and while it would have taken less time with a larger disk it was doable. Probably took 1-1.5 hours from post glue-up to finish, had to move slow to prevent swirl marks.

Personally I would stay away from the belt sanders... I had been using a PC and Makita for years till I bought the RO90, now they sit on the shelf. Just too easy to dish out a top with a momentary pause, and I believe the Rotex in coarse mode removes material just as fast... with dust collection to boot.

I use card scrapers to get rid of film finishes before sanding - things like poly, laquer, wax will bind in the abrasive and cut the life of your sandpaper significantly.

-Ian

 

[RC]

Thanks Ian,

When you scrape the old film off do you use solvents or a heat gun to soften the previous lacquer or just scrape away with muscle power? I have a Bahco two-hand scraper, but one tends to easily make deep grooves with its corners when scraping large surfaces.

The tables and benches in question are outdoor furniture and have had a generous amount of clear boat lacquer applied to them that is in reasonably good condition in places i.e. hard to get rid of.

 

[neeleman]

Hello Reiska,

The ETS will do the job, but only a little slower, but also more in control.
If you use the right sanding paper grid it will do the job.
And the ETS is still the nicest Festool sander to work with, at least when there are no corners you cannot reach.

I once did a 60m² oak floor with the combination of RO150, BS75, RAS115 and DX93. They all had their specific functions and that's what Festool designs them for.
Using the BS75 with sanding frame requires an absolute flat surface otherwise the sander will skip some areas. And you cannot tilt the BS75 when it is on it's sanding frame.
Afterwards you still have to sand that areas with another sander. Using the BS75 without it's sanding frame is also a possibility but it requires a special skill and experience with the risk of to much sanding in one area.
And believe it or not the sanding area of the BS75 (139 cm²) is also smaller then the ETS/RO150 (177 cm²).
And dust collection of the ETS/RO150 is also better then the BS75.
So for a number of reasons doing the job with a sander like the ETS or RO is much easier.

I should first do some try-outs with the ETS and the right sanding paper grids like Saphir/Granat 60-80-120-150 en then Brilliant2 180-220.

 

[Connollyir]

Thanks Ian,

When you scrape the old film off do you use solvents or a heat gun to soften the previous lacquer or just scrape away with muscle power? I have a Bahco two-hand scraper, but one tends to easily make deep grooves with its corners when scraping large surfaces.

The tables and benches in question are outdoor furniture and have had a generous amount of clear boat lacquer applied to them that is in reasonably good condition in places i.e. hard to get rid of.

Reiska,

I avoid solvents whenever possible, and although lacquer is pretty durable stuff a sharp scraper should work fine. I think your tracking problem, the grooves, could be from not flexing the card enough or perhaps a dull edge. I made a simple holder by routing out a piece of stock so two dadoes would hold the card scraper edges, while a set screw in the middle of the back is used to adjust the amount of flex. If you still have track marks, maybe consider lightly rounding the corners of the scraper - most of the cutting is done closer to the center anyway.

-Ian

 

[PA floor guy]

All you need is a flooring edger, that will make quick work of your project.  You can easily rent a Clarke super7r at most home depots, or any tool rental place.  Or buy one used from craigslist or eBay.  Anything large like that, an edger will do in a few minutes.

 

[Connollyir]

All you need is a flooring edger, that will make quick work of your project.  You can easily rent a Clarke super7r at most home depots, or any tool rental place.  Or buy one used from craigslist or eBay.   Anything large like that, an edger will do in a few minutes.

I'm not sure they have HD in Finland but surely they have a tool rental place. That should work out ok for the top, but the benches and detail work will probably still have to be done with the Rotex or ETS...

About a year ago I made a 20' (6m) x 30" (76cm) bar top out of Rock Maple and I used a floor sander (may have even been a super 7) to flatten the top before stain and poly.... it was the only way to go with something that large.

-Ian

 

[AlexThePalex]

Since you already have the ETS I'd try that one first in the way neeleman described. If that doesn't work quickly enough for you then I'd take out the Rotex 150 before going to a BS75. You can get a perfectly flat surface with a Rotex too, you don't necessarily need a belt sander for that. The Rotex might be a handful if you're not used to it, but so is a belt sander, and belt sanders have their own specific set of problems to overcome.

 

[semenza]

Try the ETS150/3 , I have used the ETS150/5  to strip. It will do the job but will take a lot longer than a Rotex150. I can't give an accurate amount of time but in general  probably something on the order of three times as long. But since you have the ETS , no harm in giving it a go.  I am probably in the minority , but I still prefer Cristal for stripping.  When you try the ETS /3  go with 60 grit  If you get the Rotex  you might want to go 40 grit at least initially , since you describe the finish as quite thick and in good condition.

Try the RO90 as well just for the sake of comparing Rotex mode  to the ETS. Keeping in mind the RO150 will be much faster than the RO90. Hard pad will work better as well.

Seth

 

[dazzer]

I have the ro 150 and a 4in makita belt sander,I prefer the 150 on tables etc,and use belt sander on floors,I also use the ro150 on floors,give the belt sander to the labourer lol,got a little Festool sander for the edges.

 

[Kev]

Belt sanders can take a LOT off - so you'd only do it that way if you had a height adjustable frame - then the result would be very even, but you've still got to cover the area with your finishing grits and that's not going to be with the belt.

The maxi systainer is a rotten size - I'm moping for a Festool belt sander in a new maxi systainer - till then I'll still use my AEG.

...

I did apply using a belt sander to a heavily lacquered coffee table once. It was in my very early and stupid DIY days and I completely ruined a very nice old table.

 

[kieran62]

Hi Reiska,
You seem to be getting a lot of advice from people who haven't got or used the BS75 or 105.
It's not like any other belt sander you've used, the frame is easy to adjust, lots of different grits available and the variable speed make it a joy to use.
I recently sanded some horribly varnished veneered panels down with mine, and it only needed a quick going over with the ETS to leave it ready for finishing.
They are expensive; however they seem to come up reasonably often on EBay. I got mine second hand for £250 and it still had all but one of the original belts in the packaging.

Hope that has been of some use
Kieran

 

[greg mann]

I am not clear on whether the surfaces are flat enough now to your liking. If they are, then an existing ETS150 would be a great place to start, unless the urge to buy another tool is just too great to overcome. I have no direct experience with the framed belt sanders but have heard great testimonials regarding their capabilities at just this sort of thing. Actually, an RS2E might be a good choice as well. They cover more surface than a 150 and are quite tame to boot.

edited; initially referenced wrong sander

 

[RC]

Thanks for the advice - I guess I'll have to unscrew the table top and see if I make descent time with the ETS I have and I guess Granat since I've got a set of it in grits 60-80-120-180 in the box waiting to be used. The table is a bit warped from moisture getting into it from the underside that doesn't have a good lacquer (only the tops and feet have been lacquered properly with boat lacquer), but generally speaking its almost level enough not to bother trying to flatten the warp out of it.

I'll have to use my RO90 on the feet parts anyway since they have curved form and corners, but he large surfaces are just rectagular table and benchtops.

There is a BS75 without the frame on our local craigslist for 250€ at the moment that spurred this thread in the first place, but adding a new frame to it would bring the price to about 400€ and you can get a used RO150 with about that sort of money... and no, I don't have infinite space for tool storage, so getting new tools for the sake of getting some isn't the issue here  [tongue]

On a related note though, since the table top and benches have small black spots in the wood (presumably some sort of mold/fungus) would you try to sand through it or take a power planer (EHL 65 in my case) to the table first and remove something like 0.5-1mm of the material to get rid of the spots? How hard would it be to flatten the top after power planing? Should the lacquer still be mechanically removed before hitting it with a planer i.e. is boat lacquer hard enough to dull a planer blade in a hurry?

 

[semenza]

I think it is going to be hard to know what to do with the black spots until you can get at them.  Maybe deep maybe not  ???

Seth

 

[Connollyir]

I think it is going to be hard to know what to do with the black spots until you can get at them.  Maybe deep maybe not  ???

Seth

Definitely. You might be better off just leaving them alone and calling it character so you don't risk creating a divot trying to get them out.

-Ian