Router bit woes

[Vanquish]

So I've got a fairly new Bosch 1617EVSPK router. Probably only has about 20 minutes of run time on it so far, maybe less. I've mostly bought Freud, but have been starting to pick up a few Whitside bits. Last week I had one of my new 1/2" shank Whiteside bits creep out of the collet by about 1/16" during the first few inches of a cut. I've never had this happen before so I took a few minutes to see exactly what the problem was. The chuck was still tight and the bit was inserted to the correct depth, but I could pull the bit right out with two fingers. I measured the shank and it was 0.4975. Just a tad small compared to my other bits which are mostly Freud and Ryobi and measure 0.4985-0.4990. Since I had just bought it from Amazon, I returned the "defective" bit.

Fast forward to yesterday. Was getting ready to use a different new Whiteside bit for the first time and decided to check the shank size before I started to use it. Measured 0.4980, ok that should work, only 5 ten thousands of an inch smaller than the Freud bit I was just using earlier in the day. Cleaned off the router chuck and shank and tightened it in the router. I pulled on the bit and came right out of the chuck as if I hadn't even tightened it at all. I reinserted the Freud bit I was using earlier and barely tightened the chuck. Could not get it to move at all.

So now I'm perplexed. I can literally take the wrenches, put them between one finger and thumb and gently squeeze them together, wrap a sock around any of my Freud bits and pull with everything I got and none of them will come out of the chuck. Then take the Whiteside bit and tighten it the same way or with both hands on the wrenches, tried that too, and the bit will just slip right out.

This really doesn't make any sense to me and probably sounds crazy. The difference in shank size between these two brands of bits is at most 0.0009 and closer to 0.0003 in some areas measured with a micrometer. My first thought was that there was something wrong with the bits, but since there is virtually no size difference between the Freud and Whiteside bits, less than 1 one thousand of an inch I'm thinking that's not the case. Second thought is that the collet is shot, but if that were the case, I would think none of my bits would stay in, right? I went through tonight and checked several other Freud and a Ryobi bits and no problems. Checked the other Whiteside bits I got and one will stay in if I really tighten it down, and the other ones I can pull out. So it's only been the Whiteside bits that I can pull out, 5 of them so far. Does less than 0.001 shank diameter really make that big of a difference?

Any thoughts?  [unsure]

 

[tjbnwi]

I'm think the collet is seating on the bottom of the bore. That infinitesimal difference may be the difference between working and not working.

I have a Bosch router and Whiteside bits, never had a problem with them not chucking up properly.

Tom

 

[land_kel]

Is it possible the shank is bottomed out and no place for the collet to tighten on the shaft.  I think the rule if thumb is insert bit to bottom, then pull out about 1/16 to 1/8".

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Make sure your tapered surfaces are clean and polished. Also inspect the kerfs in the collet to make sure they are not fouled or clogged.

 

[Vanquish]

I made sure the shank did not bottom out, and the collet is nice and clean and everything else looks good.

Should I just order a new chuck?

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Contrary to internet lore, collets don't simply wear out. Yes, they can get damaged from a spinning bit, but they don't otherwise wear out. I'd first try to find out why yours is not clamping down properly. Separate the collet from the nut and take a closer look at the collet and kerfs. Also check to see how the collet fits into the taper without the nut in your way. That might reveal if something is blocking the collet from fully seating into the taper.

On the other hand, if you do see signs of spun bits on the interior of the collet, then it should be replaced.

 

[Vanquish]

Contrary to internet lore, collets don't simply wear out. Yes, they can get damaged from a spinning bit, but they don't otherwise wear out. I'd first try to find out why yours is not clamping down properly. Separate the collet from the nut and take a closer look at the collet and kerfs. Also check to see how the collet fits into the taper without the nut in your way. That might reveal if something is blocking the collet from fully seating into the taper.

On the other hand, if you do see signs of spun bits on the interior of the collet, then it should be replaced.

Thanks, I'll take it apart tomorrow and see what it looks like. I would rather not spend money on a new one if I don't have too.

 

[waho6o9]

I had a Bosch Colt do the same thing.

What a waste.

Hello Festool routers!

Never going back to Bosch routers, ever.

 

[john5mt]

I've had a 1617 evs for 7 years with no problems.  But since yours is brand new I am betting yours wasn't built in the same country as mine. That's the problem with a lot of tool manufacturers these days. They whore out their good reputation with cheaply made Chinese products that look like their older reputable brothers. This is why we all like festool! They are high quality consistently built machines.

 

[GregBradley]

I have a couple of older Bosch routers that work pretty well. I have a bunch of Milwaukee routers all made in China and very good for their intended uses. Some of their features like the palm grip normal routers are very nice as long as you are ignoring the fact that they have no or little dust collection. They are well made and excellent for their price. Hard to beat a 5625 in a router table with router table dust collection system. I have a couple of Festool routers and they are excellent for their uses. What DOES NOT work is the later versions of decent routers where the companies have decided to make cheaper versions of their router by having them made to lower standards in China and doing a poor job of it. When Bosch, of Porter Cable or Dewalt, etc. decides to take a router that works well and make a cheaper version in China, it will NOT work out well.

 

[Vanquish]

All my favorite tools are now being made in China, Taiwan or Mexico and that's one of the main reasons why I've recently started buying Festool. 3 of the 4 Bosch tools I've bought in the last year or so suffer from inferior build quality. And my Bosch oscillating multi-tool is now on it's last legs, and I've had it for less than two years. It's really sad that it had such a short life. Meanwhile my 14-17 year old Dewalt tools are still going strong, although most of their new stuff isn't nearly as good as what it used to be either. 

Rick, I took the collet apart and it looked like it wasn't getting the proper contact it needed. Poor machining, probably made in China. Did some light sanding on the collet and the bits seem to stay in now, but I'll test it out tomorrow and see for sure. Looks promising though. Thanks a lot for the tip, I've never had to take one apart before, and didn't even really know you could.  [embarassed]

I'll need to see if I can find a dust proof switch for it or something. I've already had to take it out once and clean the dust off of the contacts inside the switch. It was getting a little finicky then it just wouldn't turn on. I've only used the thing on a couple projects so far, and at this rate, I'll be surprised if it makes it through the year.  Looks like people have been having issues with the 1617's on/off switch since around 2007. You'd think Bosch would have addressed that by now. 

 

[Gary in Texas]

Not sure if I would trust that collet any longer.  I would buy a new collet replacement if me.....

Gary