Ryan's SYS-Stacker Router Bit Storage Insert for T-LOC Systainers

[Gwerner]

I'm in for a SYS1 insert, I sent you a PM with my e-mail for the invoice. Thanks!

 

[Bhend18]

I'm going to be ordering one of these kits. They look great. I also wonder if there would be interest in a deck cut for the drawer in a SYS-Combi. I have my routers in these and use the drawers for bits. Perhaps the original deck plan could be cut to fit the drawer?

 

[ryanjg117]

I'm going to be ordering one of these kits. They look great. I also wonder if there would be interest in a deck cut for the drawer in a SYS-Combi. I have my routers in these and use the drawers for bits. Perhaps the original deck plan could be cut to fit the drawer?

Shoot me a PM with an image that shows how you're storing your router bits in the SYS-Combi and I'll see if I can dream up any ideas.

 

[Bhend18]

I couldn't figure out how to attach an image to a PM so I'll leave this here. Modified a foam systainer insert to fit the SYS-Combi. I was wondering if one of your closed decks could be modified to fit as well.

 

[onevw]

Hello

I do not see a place to store the necessary wrenches used to change the bits or a place to store the necessary nuts used to lock the  bits in the router motor spindle.

Rick B
Sys 3 on order with some 8mm holes

 

[ryanjg117]

I do not see a place to store the necessary wrenches used to change the bits or a place to store the necessary nuts used to lock the  bits in the router motor spindle.

Rick - If you're using the traditional flat router wrench, you should have enough room on the sides or front/back to stow the wrench. I've intentionally designed the inserts to *not* be super tight, since my prototyping has found that it can make the inserts tough to remove, especially on deeper systainers. As for the nuts you reference, do you mean collets? Those should be small enough to fit in the pockets of the open deck at the top of your SYS3 insert assembly. Thanks! Ryan

 

[oneeyesquare]

PM sent for one SYS3 variant.

My tool budget this quarter has been dominated by systainers!  [eek]

 

[Marc2010]

Hi Ryan<
Im assuming this is done on a CNC. Would you sell the tool path file to me so i can cut my own? No wood- No $$paint -No shipping - Just $$$
Marc

 

[ryanjg117]

03-06-2017 Production Update

I've made some good progress in the last couple of weeks. I processed the Baltic birch plywood, sanding it, spraying it Festool green, and cutting it down to size for the CNC process. Later this week, I will run what will (hopefully) be a last prototype on the CNC. My primary goal with this final prototype is to determine the precise hole sizes necessary for the 1/2", 1/4", and 8mm holes; the shouldered holes were a cool idea, but having only half the material depth for each bit means these tolerances need to be fairly tight. Too tight, though, and you'll have a frustrating time trying to get your bits inserted. Hoping to find a happy middle ground there.

I'm still shooting to get all deliveries out by end of month. I'll try to provide at least one more production update before you get the shipping notification.

 

[Cheese]

Thanks for the update Ryan...I'm pretty impressed with your updates, they're on point and much appreciated.

 

[Bob D.]

Thanks for the update Ryan...I'm pretty impressed with your updates, they're on point and much appreciated.

ditto. thanks for keeping us informed and thanks for taking this on.

This may turn into a profitable sideline business for you if that's what you want.

 

[JBag09]

Another thank you for keeping us informed. And I'm sure I'm not speaking for just myself, but looking forward to receiving the insert. Keep up the good work Ryan

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ryanjg117]

2017-03-13 Production Update:
The Painful Reality of Drilling 36,856 Holes

The last week of prototyping has been an enlightening one; I’ve discovered a number of design fixes that need to be made, which I’ve done my best to summarize below.

Change 1: Reducing the number of holes

Quite simply put, my original design called for 280 stepped holes to be drilled in the closed decks, and 167 stepped holes in the open decks. For the volume of this project, that’s more than 36,000 holes that would need to be drilled. During prototyping, it didn’t take long to realize that (a) no (affordable) bit in the world has the tool life necessary to perform all (or even a good chunk) of these cuts, which is a tall ask given the bits need to go through 20+ plys of Baltic birch with tough adhesives that kill cutter life, and (b) just the CNC machine time alone would have added up to more than 80 hours – just for the hole drilling portion of the CNC process!

So, I’ve tried to address this most challenging part of the project in two ways: first, reducing the number of holes. Simply put, 280 holes in a single deck was overkill, and while it did add slightly to the versatility, the truth is that most of you will be storing bits that have cutters wider in diameter than their shank. By reducing the number of holes and spacing them out more practically, I’ve been able to reduce the hole count by a little more than half. Secondly, there’s simply no router bit that can do these holes, in this volume. Even the most expensive Vortex long-life carbide up-cut end-mills aren’t optimized to drill holes all day. For that process, I need a proper drill bit with a high helical flute angle to evacuate chips without building up too much heat. Fortunately, W.L. Fuller manufactures a stepped drill bit with the exact tolerances necessary to drill these holes. This means I can now reduce the drilling operation to a single process, rather than four individual processes involving three different bits. I’m going to cross my fingers and hope they will have the tool life necessary, but we’ll only know once the production starts in earnest. They can always be sharpened along the way.

Here is a depiction of the production version of the SYS3 kit – so you can get a feel for what the reduce hole count will look like:

​Caption 1: Here is how the SYS3 kit will look, with fewer holes. I’ve also removed the periphery, dedicated ¼” holes since those bits can be securely stowed in the stepped holes.

Caption 2: This picture shows what the open deck will look like, with the closed deck beneath it.

Caption 3: Here’s how the closed deck will look.

Change 2: Eliminating narrow material walls

Based on issues with the prototype, I’ve increased the wall thickness along the pockets, and also thickened and brought in the risers. Basically, any walls less than 5mm in thickness have been fattened, since these walls were structurally rigid but tearout did occur on the surface veneer. Increasing the wall thickness fixes this problem.

On a related note, there were issues with the “through hole” for the FOG logo as well. Specifically, the material inside the “G” was hanging by a thread. So, I’ll be changing this to a slight, 0.50 mm pocket and will paint this lettering.

Caption 4: Rather than the thru-cut for the FOG logo, this detail will be slightly recessed and painted in Festool green.

Change 3: Improving balance and stack-ability

I’ve added “strong man powerlifting arms” to the risers to serve as a resting spot for the sides of the stacked decks, and will also be rounding over the slots on the underside of the decks, making it easier to “find” the mounts as you’re stacking them back into a Systainer.

​Caption 5: The risers now closely resemble Magnús Ver Magnússon.

Due to these design changes and the fact that I’m waiting on delivery of the stepped drills, the likelihood of this project shipping by the end of March is highly unlikely. This project will now be shipping in April or, worst case, May. I’ll strive to produce them as quickly as I can, and provide regular updates as the project continues. Most likely I will be producing these a few at a time, and will ship them in smaller batches in the order I received your pre-orders.

In summary, I’m making a number of changes that will improve the quality and manufacturability of the inserts. However, I also recognize that I’m changing the design midway into the project, after I’ve already accepted your pre-orders. I understand that some of these changes may no longer work for all customers, so I want to provide you an opportunity for a full refund now. Just reply back to this email and let me know if that’s the case – no hard feelings.

I appreciate the trust (and financing) you put into these inserts. Many of you have shelled out close to $100, and I recognize that's nothing to scoff at (even at Festool prices). But I want to make sure what you receive is of Festool quality, even if these rounds of refinement take a little longer than I had initially hoped.

 

[Runhard]

Hi Ryan,

Thanks for the update. I actually like the new version with fewer holes, now I do not need to buy as many router bits to fill it up.

 

[nclemmons]

Thanks for the update, Ryan.  And welcome to prototyping!

I'm on the order list and happy that you are taking your time and doing it right.  The changes look like excellent refinements and well justified.  BTW, your design and renders look amazing.  If only you could render the inserts, email them for installation, and be done!

From my standpoint, take your time and get it right.  If you need an additional fee to cover the unexpected costs, at least let us know.  I would be happy to help so you don't lose your shirt on this community effort.

Please capture some video of these being cut.  CNC is amazing in action...

And be aware that sharpening CNC bits will affect your tolerances!

neil

 

[Cheese]

I second what [member=167]neilc[/member]  suggested...take your time and get it right.  [big grin]

I'm probably close to the last on the list if not indeed the LAST on the list, but I'll be happy to wait because I believe the delay will produce a better product. All of the modifications you've described just make sense. Case in point, I have a Systainer with the foam insert for router bits, the Systainer is fully populated with 42 bits, yet there are 104 holes in the foam.

 

[jdv84usn]

Too late to get in on this?

 

[rustym]

Any chance on getting the part # for the stepped drill bit from W.L. Fuller. [big grin]

Thanks,
Rusty

 

[Cheese]

Any chance on getting the part # for the stepped drill bit from W.L. Fuller. [big grin]

Here are a couple of the smaller sized counterbores.
http://wlfuller.com/html/type__r_.html
http://wlfuller.com/html/carbide1.html

 

[rvieceli]

Here's a one piece step drill:
http://www.wlfuller.com/html/hss_step_drills.html

SD14F is 1/2 1/4 and a flat step

Difference with these versus the ones that cheese linked is the smaller pilot has a limited depth. 5/16 for the bit mentioned.

Ron