Saddle square recommendations ?

[mwildt]

Looking to find some input on a saddle square. Currently working on a project where I'm having to transfer lines around the stock so the domino can be positions correct.

Any recommendations ?

 

[waterloomarc]

I've been happy with my Veritas on from Lee Valley. Had it for about 15 years and have no complaints. I know at one time they made a larger one as well. Mine is about 1.5" on one leg and 2" on the other (guessing from memory) I think the larger marked all the way along a 2x4.

 

[mwildt]

Thanks for the input. Forgot to check Veritas, yes they do make nice stuff.

 

[Klemm]

we are wondering if there is any interest in an adjustable saddle square for transferring lines across edges which can be either perpendicular or most any other angle since it is hinged.
Mine is 20 years old made by Bridge City and out of production for many years. One side benefit is that it straighten out to be flat and very easy to store in your apron or the drawer.

If there is enough interest we could produce an affordable precision- machined and -reamed hinged Saddle Square.

Hans
info@tsoproducts.com

 

[cperren]

[member=59331]TSO Products[/member]

I'm interested.  Although the most useful tool in my apron is the DelVe Square from Woodpecker (http://www.woodpeck.com/delvesquare.html) .  I wish it was available in stainless steel.

Thanks
Chris

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Hans,
For what its worth, my personal view is that anything that can be adjusted will eventually lose that adjustment and need to be readjusted, but its hard to know when so one must double check it again and again.  I generally prefer fixed angle gauges.  The main ones I need are 90 degrees and the dovetail angles, which Lee Valley makes at a very reasonable price.

For variable angles, how would the product you are thinking about improve over the bevel gauge - which I thoroughly mistrust? [unsure]

 

[WillAdams]

The classic option here was of course the Bridge City Tool Works SS-2 and SS-4:
https://bridgecitytools.com/pages/1996-2000-lengendary-tools

but Blue Spruce Toolworks is taking orders on two sizes:
https://bluesprucetoolworks.com/products/folding-saddle-square

Anyone else inclined to get one?

 

[smorgasbord]

Anyone else inclined to get one?

If you do a lot of work with non 4-sided legs it could be useful, but for me the far cheaper fixed saddle squares, like the $19 Veritas, work just fine. And for square use, the pivot creates a gap so you can't quite get a continuous line wrapping around the corner.

And I love me a good accuracy discussion, so when I saw the touting of a post-assembly milling operation, I naturally had questions. Here's a still:

[attachimg=1]

How are they ensuring that this final milling operation is performed perfectly perpendicular to the hinge axis? Because that matters most.

When I look at that milling operation, it looks like the holding fixture references off the other side of the square (see the notch), so at best this makes one edge parallel to the other edge, but if that other edge isn't already perpendicular to the hinge, then the milling operation won't help that aspect. I don't see the advantage of this post-assembly milling operation, since the reference edges already need to be co-planer and perpendicular to the hinge.

And while I don't suspect that there would be an accuracy problem here, I don't understand what this final step does to help. If anything, it loses the anodizing along that edge.

 

[WillAdams]

Isn't that operation one of a pair? After facing off that side won't the tool be flipped to face off the other?

Yes, the question at hand is how a 90 degree angle to the hinge is set up and maintained.

 

[Packard]

Shinwah, the Japanese manufacturer of woodworking measuring tools makes their own version in aluminum (about $20.00) and in resin (about $10.00) and available from Rockler, Amazon and others. 

I have the resin square and it is very handy, accurate and easy to use.  I recommend it or its aluminum cousin.

Not flashy, but well-made and well-thought-out.  Their measuring tools have an excellent reputation.

 

[smorgasbord]

The Shinwa doesn’t have a hinge

 

[mino]

...
How are they ensuring that this final milling operation is performed perfectly perpendicular to the hinge axis? Because that matters most.

When I look at that milling operation, it looks like the holding fixture references off the other side of the square (see the notch), so at best this makes one edge parallel to the other edge, but if that other edge isn't already perpendicular to the hinge, then the milling operation won't help that aspect. I don't see the advantage of this post-assembly milling operation, since the reference edges already need to be co-planer and perpendicular to the hinge.

And while I don't suspect that there would be an accuracy problem here, I don't understand what this final step does to help. If anything, it loses the anodizing along that edge.

It makes it look precise-machined. It's the perception B'!. Who cares it actually adds error to any precision there was at the start ..

A marketing business run by sales people through and through. Nothing bad about it. Just another company not to be trusted.

Think twice and measure thrice before and after buying from this company.

 

[Mini Me]

Mark the corner with a knife and you then don't need a saddle square.

 

[WillAdams]

Wasn't the Bridge City Tool Works SS-2/SS-4 well-regarded?

Why can't Blue Spruce Toolworks be trusted to do the same?

 

[Packard]

The Shinwa doesn’t have a hinge

And a hinge is necessary because…

 

[Crazyraceguy]

The Shinwa doesn’t have a hinge

And a hinge is necessary because…

a rigid one only works on square corners.

I have a couple of different styles. The first one is just like one of the Japanese models above, I'm not 100% sure of the brand, right off the top of my head though.
Later I was given one of the cheap Asian L type, with the tiny holes for scribing lines. It is the 50mm size, and wasn't big enough, for the guy who bought it new.
I think I'm going to get one of the bending ones from WoodPeckers, now they the acquired Blue Spruce, you can get them in red.

 

[PaulMarcel]

I've often wanted the Bridge City saddle squares. I have the fixed 90º edge from Veritas that I use a lot. For non-square angles, I use the saddle square built into the Bridge City double-square or any of the multi-tools. A hair more awkward, but usually it is already in my hand.

 

[smorgasbord]

A marketing business run by sales people through and through. Nothing bad about it. Just another company not to be trusted.

Think twice and measure thrice before and after buying from this company.

I strongly disagree. The guy in most of the videos, Jeff Farris is a not just a good participant here (and on the Inca mail list), he's a woodworker himself. Some of the WP videos are shot in his own home shop. And I've never heard anyone complain about Woodpecker's customer service. Maybe their tools aren't what some woodworkers want or need, but overall they're high quality and do what they claim.

 

[Holzhacker]

You can find the BCT stuff on fleabay. Usually the prices are too high but sometimes are are decent prices. I agree the WP tools are nice. I have quite a few.
I don't really understand the debate about accuracy here. I use a saddle square to get a straight line on both sides of a corner and down to my cutting depth. If I need long accuracy done that corner cut I'm putting my regular square on it to verify and draw the line all the way down.
If your saddle square is loose and floppy, duh.
If its tight, what exactly are you worried about? Are you trying to use a saddle square to draw down a 1' cut line? I wouldn't rely on a saddle square for that.

 

[mino]

I strongly disagree. The guy in most of the videos, Jeff Farris is a not just a good participant here (and on the Inca mail list), he's a woodworker himself. Some of the WP videos are shot in his own home shop. And I've never heard anyone complain about Woodpecker's customer service. Maybe their tools aren't what some woodworkers want or need, but overall they're high quality and do what they claim.

I did not say they may not produce good stuff. Just that it is apparent sales/marketing decides not only what is made but also how it is made. That is the only way such an appearance-first, function-second production can happen. I had this feeling about them for a long time. The video just confirmed it.

They do and will keep making good kit. But one should never ever trust a business where manufacturing is decided on by marketing. If they make anything where accuracy matters, make sure to validate it is actually accurate and how much. Nothing more, nothing less.

I do trust TSO. They have an engineering-first culture and keep sticking to it. Over and over. I also trust the Festool engineering culture. WP? No.