Sander and dust extractor for residential painting contractor

[Steve1]

One thing I will mention is to be careful not to get to big of a dust extractor.  I have the CT 36E.  I am just a hobbyist and it rarely leaves my basement, but I assume you will be moving it all the time.  CT36 E size is not the best for moving around.  Its a little heavy, but not terrible.  But the size is big enough that carrying it up/down narrower stairs is pretty awkward.  At the time I bought it, all the models had the same blower in them, the various sizes only gives you more or less storage capacity.  (and by the way, the bags are not cheap)

Gotta love how quiet the Festool vacuums are. 

 

[westcoastpainter]

If we go with the Midi dust extractor will we be able to purchase the Leros or P2 at a later date and use it with the midi? Or do you have to use it with the dust extractor that has the auto clean? We are not sanding drywall with large amounts of mud on it, just painted walls with small drywall patches here and there.

 

[afish]

This is also somewhat tricky question. IF you are only filling small nail holes and such you should be ok with a smaller extractor. The problem comes in if or when you are called upon to expand or handle a job that requires larger amounts of sanding drywall compound.  If a client or good customer called you tomorrow and needed some painting done but also needed some walls skim coated would you want to go buy another extractor or turn down the job if they were concerned with dust?  When I buy a new tool I try not to look just at my current needs but future as well.  For that reason if it was me I would get the AC and be covered but everyone is different. 

 

[AlexThePalex]

If we go with the Midi dust extractor will we be able to purchase the Leros or P2 at a later date and use it with the midi? Or do you have to use it with the dust extractor that has the auto clean? We are not sanding drywall with large amounts of mud on it, just painted walls with small drywall patches here and there.

Yes, you can use it just fine with the Midi. If the scenario that afish talks about arises, you can get by with buying more bags. Or a pre-separator.

There is only one reason the Planex is advised with the CT 36 AC, and that is because plaster/drywall dust very quickly fills up all the pores in a bag which blocks all suction. So if you don't have an AC vac, you must change the bags very quickly, like when it's only filled for 25%, which is a big waste.

If you sand other things than plaster/drywall with the Planex or Leros or P2, you don't have that problem. But, since dust from sanding is finer than wood dust from sawing, you can still expect to lose suction before your bag is completely filled up. I have a Mini and a Midi vac, and with both I have to change the bags often when they're only 50% full.

Since I am now plastering my entire house, and have to sand a lot of it, I have solved that problem by buying a pre-separator which cost me €30 and some scrap wood. My bags now last a lot longer because the pre-separator catches 90-95% of all dust.

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[bertv]

Since I am now plastering my entire house, and have to sand a lot of it, I have solved that problem by buying a pre-separator which cost me €30 and some scrap wood. My bags now last a lot longer because the pre-separator catches 90-95% of all dust.

Hi Alex, I was under the impression that cyclones don’t work very well with finer dust particles. But your experiences tells a different story. Does it have to do with dialling back the suction and thus airflow, which might allow the lighter particles to more easily give in to gravity and drop into the cyclone-container? (I am guessing here…).

 

[xedos]

I see little value in purchasing, transporting , and emptying a separator for a painting contractor.

I doubt many of those jobs will fill up an entire bag on a MIDI or even a MINI for that matter. Why carry the added weight, expense , and make a bigger mess when emptying the spoils ?

The customer pays for the dust bags anyway, so what’s the value ?  You gonna win more jobs over me because I’m charging $5 more for a new dust bag ?  I don’t think so.

 

[AlexThePalex]

Hi Alex, I was under the impression that cyclones don’t work very well with finer dust particles. But your experiences tells a different story. Does it have to do with dialling back the suction and thus airflow, which might allow the lighter particles to more easily give in to gravity and drop into the cyclone-container? (I am guessing here…).

My cyclone catches plaster dust just fine. Not all of it, but I think my bags last 10 times as long now as they did before. I never dial the suction back when I use the cyclone. I guess there's some losses on the way, but not much.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I see little value in purchasing, transporting , and emptying a separator for a painting contractor.

I doubt many of those jobs will fill up an entire bag on a MIDI or even a MINI for that matter. Why carry the added weight, expense , and make a bigger mess when emptying the spoils ?

The customer pays for the dust bags anyway, so what’s the value ?  You gonna win more jobs over me because I’m charging $5 more for a new dust bag ?  I don’t think so.

I agree. I was only mentioning it as an alternative scenario to what afish said above, what if a customer suddenly asks you to sand an entire wall. While afish is dead set on talking OP into buying a CT 36 AC, I think he's just fine with a Midi. Or better a Mini, because a painter doesn't even need the extra capacity of the Midi. Just bill the bags to the customer. That's what I do. 1 job, 1 bag, 4 euro.

The separator I have is for my home use because I have a lot of walls to sand. I'm getting the hang of plastering, but I'm still learning and I do not get them as flat as a mirror in one go. I have to sand the imperfections away. And the cyclone also comes in very handy with my CS70 table saw and the TS55.

 

[afish]

Nope, just offering advice based on decades of short sighted purchases for myself.  I have learned to plan ahead, it tends to be cheaper and easier for me in the long run.  If it was me and I absolutely just could not afford the Leros and AC. I would skip the extractor for now and get the cheapest quietest shop vac I could and make do with that until I could add the extractor. Or try to silence the one I had even if that meant getting some extra hose and putting it outside.  Obviously that isn't always an option but it would probably work in a lot of situations.  I do more drywall sanding though it sounds like.  I see the appeal of smaller lighter but if he ends up adding separator its going to end up bigger than the 36 and probably heavier. Whichever way he goes Festool is the real winner here...

 

[AlexThePalex]

I paint a lot, especially the last year I've been doing it every single day without exception. I always have 2 vacs because I can be working on multiple projects at the same time. I used to have a Mini and a CT26 together, but for this work, the 26 was just too big to haul around all the time and I changed it for another Mini. You don't need a big tool set for painting but you do want it to be mobile because you're always on the move and on the job you can be really space constrained.

Anyway, I'm not and advocate for one tool does it all. Especially if you're a professional, you should have multiple tools. I had 3 vacs and 13 sanders at one point.

 

[westcoastpainter]

I was still not feeling confident enough to pull the plug and make a purchase so I checked equipment rental places to see if there was anything I could try in the way of a 9 inch electric sander. All I could get was the Flex GE 5.

I was excited for about the first minute of use. I could see that sanding entire walls with the large diameter could make things go a lot faster, but then the paper had flat clumps of paint and probably some of the drywall patch as well. I picked it off and tried again, but in less than a minute it was back and the sander was skipping on the wall.

I'm not sure of the brand of paper that was on it, but my guess was something fairly cheap. They only had 2 choices for grit 100 and 150 so I put the 100 on. The only backing pad they had was the one the Flex came with and it was super soft. The paint on the walls was many years old latex and the type of patch I use is Dynamic Dyna Patch. It gets fairly hard and was definitely dry. The speed on the Flex was set to the lowest setting. They didn't have a dust extractor to rent only a shop vac so I just used my own Rigid shop vac with it.

I am slightly intrigued by the 9 inch sanders if they can sand painted walls and patch without caking up. I have no experience with the different types of sandpaper that can be used with with the Leros or the Planex2. Will they eliminate this issue?

I've used my Bosch 5inch RO for a few years now using Klingspor abrasives. The paper may get a few clumps on it from time to time, but overall I don't have any issues.

 

[afish]

Unfortunately, You are comparing apples to oranges.  The Flex GE5 is a rotary sander.  The leros and P2 are completely different type of sander.  You cant even compare the ergonomics of them either.  While yes they are similar since they are both mounted on a pole but thats about it.  The Leros is lighter, lower profile head and better head articulation.  Mirka uses the Abrenet as well.  Supposedly it is more clog resistant.  Some of the clogging is probably contributed to the rotary style of the flex as well which will generate more heat and gum up the paint.  This is probably the reason you are seeing a difference between it and your RO Bosch.  If you like the sanding action of the Bosch and the ergonomics of the flex being pole mounted you will love the Leros.  It only gets better since it offers those same benefits and more.  I would check with Mirka directly and see if they can arrange a demo or send you a demo unit if you are still unsure.   

 

[westcoastpainter]

Unfortunately, You are comparing apples to oranges.  The Flex GE5 is a rotary sander.  The leros and P2 are completely different type of sander.  You cant even compare the ergonomics of them either.  While yes they are similar since they are both mounted on a pole but thats about it.  The Leros is lighter, lower profile head and better head articulation.  Mirga uses the Abrenet as well.  Supposedly it is more clog resistant.  Some of the clogging is probably be contributed to the rotary style of the flex as well which will generate more heat and gum up the paint.  This is probably the reason you are seeing a difference between it and your RO Bosch.  If you like the the sanding action of the Bosch and the ergonomics of the flex being pole mounted you will love the Leros.  It only gets better since it offers those same benefits and more.  I would check with Mirka directly and see if they can arrange a demo or send you a demo unit if you are still unsure. 

I see your point about comparing apples to oranges, unfortunately the Flex is all I could rent. I will try contacting Mirka to see if I can arrange a demo.

If you use the Mirka with the Festool dust extractors do you still get the benefit of the dust extractor turning off when you shut the sander off?

 

[mrboult]

Any tool will work from a festool extractor. Plugging in a lamp will turn the extractor in and off with the lamp.

I notice that my Rotex in rotex mode will gum up paper on certain surfaces much quicker than random orbit will. As mentioned above the forced rotation seems to build up the heat and worsen this type of situation.

 

[westcoastpainter]

So I've made the plunge and placed the order with LeeValley for the ETS EC 150/5 and the midi dust extractor. It's the best my budget can handle at this time. It's going to be a major improvement over using a shop vac and a step up from the Bosch 5inch RO sander I'm using now.

I'm getting the hard backing pad for the sander, but still not sure about what sandpaper to get? Any suggestions?

Granat, granat net or abranet? for use on previously painted walls and small areas of drywall patch on dings and scratches, nail holes,etc.

On the Bosch RO I usually use a range from 80 to 120 to maybe 150 and occasionally down to 60 if there's some really bad thick drips, runs, etc. in the previous paint. With the ETS EC 150/5 being more aggressive will I find that I will need to go with different grits than what I have been using?

 

[afish]

[eek] 60 grit on interior wall surface? or is that for stripping old exterior paint?  That's some pretty big drips if you are running across stuff that needs 60 grit... No wonder you were gumming up some paper.  If I was running across stuff that needed 60 or even a hard sanding with 80 I think I would try one of these and try that.  Its made for floors but if you have some big runs it should shave them off pretty easy you will just need to keep it at a low angle.  Then hit it with some 120-180 depending on the wall. might need to hit it with some easy sand after. I would probably get some 80,120.180,220 If you check with klingspor I think they offer a variety pack and see what works best for you. As far as type granat seems to be the go to paper for painted surfaces.   

 

[westcoastpainter]

I'm using 80 grit on the Bosch RO again on a job today. That's what's needed when a 30 year old house has dozens of crappy paint jobs with improper sanding if any sanding at all through the years. Some of the same drips and runs have been painted over top of again and again. Also patches that we never sanded out and then painted over.

 

[mkasdin]

For really crappy paint jobs I’ve used a heat gun and the layers all come off in one swipe. Typically, when the walls were never cleaned, no primer and cheap paint. 60 grit is good. I would still start with cleaning the walls first. Otherwise you’re just embedding dirt into the surface. If your stripping the paint or removing I would look at the Planex easy. For level 5 I would get your hands on the Mirka. Or use the Planex if you just want a level 4?