Sanding Abrasives - Festool Multi-Jetstream vs SIA Fibotec

[jamste]

Hi all -

I have browsed through this forum a number of times usually in search for a specific answer to a question; quite often having my question answered within a couple minutes of searching. I think this will be one of my first posts. Hoping to see what you guys have to say regarding my question below.

I am in the process of re-stocking my sanding supplies as I have depleted all abrasives to almost nothing at all. I don't know how I imagined but anyway.. I of course use Festool for the sanders, but use abrasives from SIA Switzerland which I really like. I think they make really nice products. After looking into which abrasives to order I have come to the realisation that it is much more than just grits - there is quite a bit of science behind it regarding the type of paper used, the coatings, what type of grit is used and now discovering the importance behind perforated extraction holes. I want to make this coming order a good investment.

I have a few questions, hoping some of you could help me out with finding an answer/solutions to and for. This would be very much appreciated.

Firstly, I should explain what I use my abrasives for: Primarily sanding solid timber - hard and soft, preparation prior to finishing and cutting between finishes such as lacquer and hard wax finishes. I am wanting to start sanding high gloss lacquer soon. From my understanding it seems most of you are using the Festool abrasives. I have a couple grits of sanding discs  from Festool and find it pretty good. What I am wanting is to find a type of sand paper or at least a select few that I can use for a broad range of application such as sanding timber, preparation for finishing, sanding of lacquer and lacquer polishing. I understand that there is obviously not one specific type of sandpaper I can do the whole lot with but at the same time I don't want to have to get several types of sandpaper in each of the grits as this would be a costly exercise. At the moment, or at least before I ran out - I have been using Siacar from SIA for sanding timber and cutting between lacquer. It is primarily used for sanding body filler and I thought it would be great for wood due to its durability. I am not sure whether I should continue using it. I'm going to be spending quite a lot on re-stocking and look at it as being an investment for the next period of time. I have never really given sand paper much thought in the past...

My first question for any of you that have had experience with SIA products - How does it compare to the quality of Festool sandpaper? I understand it is manufactured by an abrasive manufacturer but I'm not sure who... Being Festool I have no doubt that it is good stuff considering their name is on it. In actual fact, I'm tempted to just switch to Festool paper from now on. The little time I have spent using it, it's not bad at all. However, I do like my Swiss products.

From the research I have done so far regarding which sandpaper to get I am looking at Siarexx Cut, Siaspeed and Siacar - this would be for sanding timber prior to finishing. For lacquer sanding I was either going to use the same type of abrasives but using a higher grit or using Sialac. Im finding it quite frustrating trying to narrow down which abrasive is best - too many variants on everything. Not sure if any of these sanding abrasives are familiar to any of you as again I understanding most of the talk here is regarding the Festool sandpaper. Has anyone used/using these abrasives or any thing similar from SIA that they can shine some light on and recommend?

For the Festool sandpaper route, my thinking is Brilliant, Titan, Granat and Platin (lacquer polishing). I will admit, going with Festool abrasives is much easier for me as it is less confusing - the choice of abrasives is quite limited which is both good and bad. With SIA, there is an abrasive type for nearly any application you can think of. It's challenging trying to find a selection of sandpaper best suited for my applications.

I just recently added an RO90 to my small fortune of all things Festool and now wanting to get several grits for it. From my knowledge I think the only sanding discs SIA have for a 90mm round pad is from their Siarexx which is available as 7 hole - 90mm. Obviously Festool has most of their abrasives available in 90mm discs. I am quite particular and I would sleep better at night if all my abrasives are from one supplier. I might have the make the RO90 the exception... Thats unless I go with the Festool abrasives.

Now, from doing a bit of research on abrasives, It seems their is quite a lot of technology behind the way these discs are perforated. I'm trying to decide whether to use the new perforation from SIA called Fibotec or to stick with the Festool Multi-jet stream system. I've been watching videos on youtube on both types and both have their valid arguments. It's hard to decide. The Fibotec system does look pretty good but it means I need to buy all new pads for my ETS sander and Rotex - pads that I only just updated. If and when I upgrade the rotex to one of the new models I am not going to be able to use the Fibotec system as SIA only make the pads with the M8 bolt and not the FastFix system. This is something I need to definitely consider. I use both a Rotex and ETS for all the sanding I do. Again, I'm not sure whether many have used the Fibotec system. SIA only uses this system on three of its sanding ranges - Siarexx, Siaspeed and Sialac. What are your thoughts?

Ive just realised I've been buying all my sanding paper with only 9 holes - its no wonder I've been having so much trouble with clogging and build up. Is Festool's Multi-jetstream (17hole) good compared to a pinhole system such as Fibotec?

I think I have now managed to surpass my question asking quota. Hopefully at least half of what I tried to say had made a bit of sense to some of you!

Really looking forward to what you guys have to share.

Thanks,
James  [big grin]

Melbourne, AU

 

[leakyroof]

Granat will do everything for you and not clog easily. Buffing out a finish?, not sure if Platin is the better way to go than a very high grit of Granat, so I will let our resident finishing Gurus speak about that.
  Rubin 2 is for bare wood/timber. Cheaper and heavier backing on the abrasive than Granat, so some of us still prefer it.
  Brilliant 2 works well, but has been kind of pushed aside by many Granat users since Granat does everything so well.
  I have not used any of the Swiss Abrasives/SIA that you posted about.

  And,  [welcome] to FOG.
  Titan, not used around wood working for the most part. Festool tends to recommend it for Automotive Paint applications.
  Holes in the Disc.  yes, now we're getting somewhere.  You want your sander pads to match your abrasives for the most part, but read on.
The old Festool pattern was 9 holes, then they went to the Multi-Stream with many more holes.  You CAN use the later Multi-Stream patterned abrasives in an older 9 hole sander pad, as the main, older, 9 holes still match up.
There are many of us still plugging through old stacks of Festool paper with a later sander or pad. Works just fine, and at some point, we'll catch up[which means by then Festool will probably change the pad layout again... [wink]]
  So, I say this. You have an RO90, get some Granat in the smallest quanity of any grits you're used to working with.
Give it a full work out and compare it to your SIA stuff. See what you think.

 

[Kev]

Hi James,

I'll start by saying that there's so much more than the substrate and the abrasive element to sanding using a power tool ... and that's where Festool have cornered the magic. I'm not a professional, but I'm extremely fixated on what works and I've come to realise that the Festool sanders matched to the Festool abrasives ... and further Granat is matched to general purpose, covers an amazingly broad spectrum.

Once you get familiar with the optimal DC with your Festool sander and the ideal speed for the grit you're using - you not only achieve a result quickly, you do it with so much less. I cut back a large lacquered table from thick rubbish to clean timber with two 60 grit Granat discs.

It's something you need to experience - no stories truly express it well enough.

Interestingly, Granat is a good general purpose abrasive - a big job could call for a more "needs specific" abrasive (from the Festool range) for higher efficiency, but as an all rounder you couldn't go wrong with Granat.

Kev

 

[jamste]

I will definitely look into the Garant sanding discs more closely. If I do go with Festool paper - I will get a combination of Garant and Brilliant. Still doing the research with Festool vs SIA. Regarding the automative sandpaper - I would have thought it is more durable seeing that automative fillers and paints are quite hard and require paper that is longer lasting. With sanding of lacquers and finishes, is it the same deal whether we're sanding automative lacquer or wood lacquer?

I must admit - I like the sound of this Garant paper and how it so versatile. It is a very attractive attribute to me.

James

 

[leakyroof]

I will definitely look into the Garant sanding discs more closely. If I do go with Festool paper - I will get a combination of Garant and Brilliant. Still doing the research with Festool vs SIA. Regarding the automative sandpaper - I would have thought it is more durable seeing that automative fillers and paints are quite hard and require paper that is longer lasting. With sanding of lacquers and finishes, is it the same deal whether we're sanding automative lacquer or wood lacquer?

I must admit - I like the sound of this Garant paper and how it so versatile. It is a very attractive attribute to me.

James

 If you buy Granat ,it's kind of hard to say why you'd want to the Brilliant 2 since Granat matches and actually excedes Brilliant 2 in many ways, and is also available in more grit choices for certain sander models/pad sizes.
Granat was developed for Automotive Paint Finishes from what I've heard, so it deals with hard finishes easily, resists clogging, strips finishes off, sands them, sands bare wood, works with fillers and epoxies, deals with drywall and plaster dust/compounds without a care and probably a host of other uses that I haven't even explored yet.
There are many shops and contractors here in the US that have switch completely to Granat so they always have matching abrasives in their shops AND their job sites while only needing to stock 1 paper for everyone to save on space and ordering hassles at restocking time.  They were the first ones to really move Granat into the forefront since they are the heavy consumers over someone like me who uses very little paper/abrasives.
 Granat is now available for the Planex, Festool's Drywall Sander System, and when that sander first came out, Festool was only offering Brilliant 2 and Saphir.  Granat is here to stay

 

[bkharman]

+1 for Granat.  I use it on my RO90 and ETS150... great stuff!

if you haven't checked out this page, spend a few there, I have found it useful more than once...

http://www.festoolusa.com/abrasives

 

[jamste]

This Garant paper must be made from pixie dust - everyone loves it...  [tongue]