Sanding to a scribe line with the RAS 115 sander

[Brice Burrell]

.....i personally want to see more of these videos.
keep up the good work christian!

regards, justin.

I couldn't agree more with Justin. I like these videos and I really hope this incident doesn't discourage Festool from putting more of these great videos out.

I believe, we as consumers should always have a certain amount of skepticism about any advertising/promotion. Let's keep in mind that most companies don't bother to go to the trouble to make videos on the fly like this. Sure, Brain is a salesman and it's his job to make these tools look good. And Markus, I agree, this is an ideal situation of the tool. However, there is a point where misplaced criticism does more harm to the consumer than good.  

So Christian and the rest of the Festool staff, nice work and please keep these videos coming. [thumbs up]    

 

[danrush]

Markus, 

I concede that the scribing in the video "COULD" be described as ideal, citing the materials, backcutting, etc.  But, if the manufacturer is showing what the tool can and was intended to do, wouldn't it be proper to show the tool being used under accepted practices?  I believe that in the case of scribing trim, it is accepted practice to back cut most of the material away before doing the fine work.

Is seems to me that independant reviewers could test the tool in the more aggressive conditions you describe.  I also put a lot of stock in what independant reviewers here on FOG and elsewhere have to say about specific tools; I try to never rely on a single source prior to purchase.

Dan

 

[Michael Kellough]

.....i personally want to see more of these videos.
keep up the good work christian!

regards, justin.

I couldn't agree more with Justin. I like these videos and I really hope this incident doesn't discourage Festool from putting more of these great videos out.

I believe, we as consumers should always have a certain amount of skepticism about any advertising/promotion. Let's keep in mind that most companies don't bother to go to the trouble to make videos on the fly like this. Sure, Brain is a salesman and it's his job to make these tools look good. And Markus, I agree, this is an ideal situation of the tool. However, there is a point where misplaced criticism does more harm to the consumer than good.  

So Christian and the rest of the Festool staff, nice work and please keep these videos coming. [thumbs up]    

It doesn't look ideal to me. It seems like the dust collection system is at a severe
disadvantage since the disk is perpendicular to an edge. For the situation to be ideal
the disk would have to be flat on a surface so the perimeter brushe could contain the dust.

Back beveling before scribing is or should be routine. Often, the edge that is left long for scribing
is rabbeted on the back before leaving the shop.

 

[Jeff Magnus]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this before, but I also use my RAS to shape and polish stone and concrete. It does such a fine job that I havent picked up my water feed polisher in several years. Alpha makes backers and cups that will thread the RAS. I'm sure there are other manufacturers that will thread, but Ive had good luck with the Alpha line. I'm glad to see the RAS finally getting some recognition.

 

[Forrest Anderson]

.....i personally want to see more of these videos.
keep up the good work christian!

regards, justin.

I couldn't agree more with Justin. I like these videos and I really hope this incident doesn't discourage Festool from putting more of these great videos out.

I believe, we as consumers should always have a certain amount of skepticism about any advertising/promotion. Let's keep in mind that most companies don't bother to go to the trouble to make videos on the fly like this. Sure, Brain is a salesman and it's his job to make these tools look good. And Markus, I agree, this is an ideal situation of the tool. However, there is a point where misplaced criticism does more harm to the consumer than good.  

So Christian and the rest of the Festool staff, nice work and please keep these videos coming. [thumbs up]    

And I'll step up to agree with Justin and Brice.

Members have been pestering, encouraging, and cajoling Festool for ages to produce more videos to show how their tools are used, and what happens when they do? They get criticised that they are being too easy on the tool and that it should have been shown doing a more difficult job; or that the video is too slow.

What next? Will someone jump down their throat for the quality of the video, or it not being in high definition, or the task wasn't being performed upside down on a ladder in a rainstorm?

Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth! It's like someone bringing you a nice expensive Christmas present, and you throwing it on the floor saying "that's no use - I wanted a RED one". If that happened to me, they wouldn't get any present next Christmas, never mind a red one!

After all this criticism, I hope Festool carries on producing videos.

Forrest

 

[BMH]

Videos are a great demonstration and learning tool. When you are producing them for an large audience as diverse as this one, your learn quickly that the script is critical. The perfect video in this case would show the project A to Z from all angles with how your measure your board, bevel it with the TS 55, how to sharpen you pencil before scribing etc... This takes time and money and would limit the number of videos coming out of Festool.

This video was a snap shot of what you can do with the RAS 115. The next logical step if you are interested is to go down to your festool dealer and try it out. I had a project where I had to remove 8 coats of latex paint from a fir T&G wall. I took a sample down to my dealer and tried out the different sanders. Walked out with the RAS 115. I love that tool. For those who don't have a dealer near by post, on this forum and you will find out quickly if this tools is not up to the job. My dealer always remind me of the 30 day money back guaranty if the tool doesn't perform to my expectation. 

For those who believe that Festool USA was trying to pull a quick one on you, stop and think. Is that the image they want or need for their brand! I appreciate these video and all of the other post and pictures on this site. I am a skeptic by training and nature but I learn to ask questions before jumping to conclusion. The first question in this case is to ask the producer of the video; is the Board back bevel and why.
That simple question would have change the tone of this debate and we could have discuss the different techniques for scribing a back board.

Festool keep the videos coming

Bruce

 

[tbellemare]

I was out in Henderson NV with Steve Bace and he had us use the RAS for scribing. We had a piece of 3/4" melamine there for some other purposes but it had already served its previous role so we used it as I recall. We also had some 3/4" MDF and my memory is a little sketchy but I know we used one or the other.

Steve just drew a squiggly spline shape close to the edge and taught us how to use the RAS to scribe. We didn't back bevel but all agreed that we should have and would have if it were actual work. Anyway, it wasn't a big deal, the RAS ate a bevel quite handily. I was surprised at the fact that there was almost no dust because the brush dust collector grabbed it almost perfectly.

'Long story short, if you want to use other than ideal methods, it works just fine also.

Tom

 

[Jonhilgen]

Jon,

That's a heck of a scribe there! [eek] Nice job!

Thanks Jonny, that was just one side...

BTW everyone, I back-beveled it with a jigsaw prior to sanding to the scribe line.  Standard practice in my book. Whether with a jigsaw or table saw.

 

[woodguy7]

Eeekkk, that jigsaw is the wrong colour    I think the video was good & i noticed straight away that it was back beveled.  As many have said, it is the first thing i would have done & is in no way cheating so please keep the vids coming.  This is a sander that i have heard of but never seen let alone seen in action & i like what i see.  I am now thinking of uses i could use one  for  [eek]

Woodguy.

 

[Forrest Anderson]

Thanks for the feedback.  I hadn't thought of the RAS for scribing, stripping, or grinding.   

It turns out that I have a fair amount of scribing and some paint stripping to do in the next 12 months.  And, my Makita 4.5" grinder is starting to make noises (probably from grinding stone too much).   

Does any one know if the RAS can use standard 4.5" backing pads and grinding cups?   (I have several of these.)

Dan

You may want to check out the thread RAS 115 as grinder? for talk of M14-threaded cup brushes supplied by Festool for the RAS115 outside North America.

Forrest

 

[Dan Clark]

Forrest,

Thanks.  I'll check it out.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[peter halle]

Dan,

I tried the arbor nut from my grinders on the RAS 115 and they are too big.

Sorry,

Peter

 

[mwhafner]

I don't see any issues with the video, and am glad that Festool has made the effort to create and share them.  

It isn't like they were doing anything to mislead viewers.  If anything, Holzhacker should have learned a new technique.  

If I can, I generally rabbet the backside of my scribed prices down to 1/4" to 5/16" thickness, just to minimize the amount of material I have to remove.   Didn't know I was cheating.  

 

[peter halle]

I removed the pad on my RAS 115 to test something out and look what I found:

A clog caused by large paint chips that the dust collection had captured - 1.5 years ago.  Maybe that is why the dust collection wasn't as good as in the video. [scared]

[attachimg=#]

What was trapped:

[attachimg=#]

The amount inside was equivalent to about one third of a shot glass.  I never thought about large chips getting caught.

So, if your RAS isn't capturing as much dust as you think it should - look here.

Peter

 

[Dan Clark]

Dan,

I tried the arbor nut from my grinders on the RAS 115 and they are too big.

Sorry,

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for checking.  This is a downside.  That said, every tool (and probably everything, in general) have upsides and downsides.  Knowing them upfront makes for good decision making.  Now it's just a matter of figuring out workarounds and options for this issue. 

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Forrest Anderson]

I tried the arbor nut from my grinders on the RAS 115 and they are too big.

When it comes to angle grinders, it appears that the fixing that secures the grinding wheel or wire brush to the spindle of the grinder varies between Europe and the USA.

For example, here we have the Bosch 4-1/2" Angle Grinder, Model 1800

Specifications from the Bosch USA website are:

Amperage: 7.5 
Certifications: cULus 
Length: 11-1/4" 
Max. Motor HP: 1.1 
No Load RPM: 11,000 
Rating: 120 V AC/DC 
Spindle Thread: 5/8" - 11  
Weight (lbs.): 4.3 
Wheel Diameter: 4-1/2" 

And here we have the Bosch GWS 8-115 Professional, which is a grinder with very similar specifications from Europe:

Specifications from the Bosch UK website are:

Rated power input 800 W 
No-load speed 11.000 rpm 
Power output 500 W 
Grinding spindle thread M 14 
Disc diameter 115 mm 
Rubber sanding plate, diameter 115 mm 
Wire cup brush, diameter 70 mm 
Length 286 mm 
Height 106 mm 
Weight without cable (EPTA standard) 1,9 kg 

Notice how the spindle on the UK model has a M14 thread, whilst the model for the US market has a 5/8"-11 thread

The Festool RAS115 has an M14 thread, just like most other similar European angle grinders. It's therefore not possible to directly attach US cup brushes and other accessories with the 5/8"-11 thread, which is the standard in the USA. 5/8" is approx 16mm, which is why the thread on US attachments is too big for the M14 (Metric 14mm) spindle.

Also note that the speed of both of these angle grinders is 11,000rpm, compared to the RAS115 which is much slower at 1,500 - 4,000 rpm.

It's also interesting to see the different method of expressing the power of European and USA power tools. Bosch USA say their grinder is 1.1HP and 7.5A, whereas in Europe the power is expressed in Watts with no mention of Amps or Horsepower.

Forrest

 

[Dave Ronyak]

You guys are missing the larger detail.  That's one helluva a crooked wall he is trying to scribe to!  I'd probably refloat that!

That's certainly a crooked wall profile.  I am facing a 14ft one -- brick to which I need to scribe a length of oak to finish trimming the side of an open staircase.  The home maker (my wife) doesn't want to hear about sanding or blasting the paint off those bricks and then filling in with mortar or some other materials prior to addition of the trim piece.  If I scribe a board to fit, it will undoubted be even more jagged than the profile in the demo video.  Have you any suggestions for dealing with my installation other than scribing?

Dave R.

 

[JohnDistai]

My attempt at humor only revealed my ignorance.  I hadn't thought of scribing to a set of bricks or stone, so the wavy scribe line wasn't too far fetched.  So I learned at least 2 things from this thread - that if I am to scribe I need to back cut the filler strip, and that you can scribe up to stone and brick.  Thanks!

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Surely there is a source available to USA customers for accessories with an M14 thread, right?  I'm thinking of wire and nylon bristle cup wheels and flat and sloped "flap" wheels like those made by Klingspor which I have used in ~4 1/2 inch size on my 7" angle grinder with 5/8" x 11 TPI spindle.  I realize that Festool's designed in dust collection would not work as effectively with any cup type brush tipped wheel, but I am looking for versatility before replacing my old angle grinder, and any dust collection is better than none at all.

Dave R.

 

[peter halle]

Dave,

Depending on the look you are after, and your situation, it is not uncommon to apply a thinner more flexible piece of molding on top of the piece butting up to the brick.

Here is a link for something that I bought and have never used.  The videos will not work on a Mac unless you have a plug-in. http://thescribingtool.com