Sanding to a scribe line with the RAS 115 sander

[danrush]

Dave,

I was recently on a job where the stone masons had installed flagstone up a wall to the corners.  The owner's then decided to add car siding to the adjascent walls.  After looking at scribing about 50lf of trim, 25 vertical on each side of the fireplace,  it was decided that the best coarse of action would be to have the masons use their grinders to score a shallow line the depth of the siding, and manually clean out the groove, thus allowing the wood siging to be tucked into the stone. 

It wasn't as messy as one might think.  You could even mitigate the dust further by use of additional vacs, zipwall, even a small bit of water.  Whatever may work for your circumstance. 

Having completed many, many lf. of scribing against all materials,  I've learned it's sometimes best to look at all sides and maybe a straight line is the best path.

Dan

 

[Brice Burrell]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this before, but I also use my RAS to shape and polish stone and concrete. It does such a fine job that I havent picked up my water feed polisher in several years. Alpha makes backers and cups that will thread the RAS. I'm sure there are other manufacturers that will thread, but Ive had good luck with the Alpha line. I'm glad to see the RAS finally getting some recognition.

I don't know if any of you caught this, but Jeff Magnus pointed Alpha makes accessories that will fit the RAS. A quick search shows Alpha as company that makes stone polishing equipment. I'm not sure what they have beyond polishing discs or pads.  

 

[Dan Clark]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this before, but I also use my RAS to shape and polish stone and concrete. It does such a fine job that I havent picked up my water feed polisher in several years. Alpha makes backers and cups that will thread the RAS. I'm sure there are other manufacturers that will thread, but Ive had good luck with the Alpha line. I'm glad to see the RAS finally getting some recognition.

Jeff,

I did a search for Alpha tile and stone products.  Here's an example: http://www.contractorsdirect.com/Alpha-Coarse-Continuous-Cup-Wheel .  All of the ones I could find had 5/8-11 threads.  Have you got a link to RAS-sized Alpha cups? 

Thanks,

Dan.

 

[Dan Clark]

I found a few items with a 14mm arbor:

Wire Brush - http://www.contractorstoolsupply.com/metabo-4-x-316-m14-thread-knot-stainless-brush-p-3940.html

Wire Brushes - http://www.amazon.com/gp/search/ref=sr_nr_p_36_5?bbn=228013&keywords=m14+arbor&qid=1267327014&rh=n%3A228013%2Ck%3Am14+arbor&rnid=1243644011&low-price=0&high-price=50&x=3&y=11

Couldn't find much more.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[mwhafner]

Dan,

Ace Tool also carries the Alpha line, and may have more M14 accessories.  Also looks like they carry a M14 - 5/8" adapter that may work for some applications. 

 

[harry_]

I have thought about buying a RAS and probably will but not for this purpose. Having done more kitchen installs and custom work than I care to remember, I am unable to buy into the hype of that video. That video is a typical company skewed demonstration and an insult to the power of Festool's.
Am I the only one who noticed that the board was already back cut, looks like maybe 30 degrees? Given that fact of course there was great DC. He was only sanding an 1/8" to 3/16" of material at the most. Looked like AC plywood.
That video might fool a dumb DIY hobbyist but not a seasoned contractor. RAS better than a belt sander or electric plane? Prove it! Do that same video with 3/4" cdx, mdf or particle board, 90 degree corner with a layer of formica on top.
I owned a belt sander for years and didn't know what to do with the big stupid thing, then I apprenticed with an old timer. Scribing with a big PC belt sander is all we did. I'll stick to using my belt sander for real work.
I will still end up buying a RAS but am appalled you guys in Lebanon thought you could pull a fast one.

Holzhacker,

It is unfortunate that you feel this way, as it is costing you money. Is the RAS the right tool for a laminate countertop? Maybe, maybe not. Personally I would fear the `catch & peel` of the laminate. Having installed hundreds of counter tops myself, if a wall is `that bad`, then my counter top has been back bevelled before I but it up there for scribing. Why? Because I have a POS belt sander and back bevelling prior to setting the top on the cabs is ummm........... easier. smarter. faster.  

As an aside:
Years ago I worked with an 'old timer'.... took him 4x longer to install a pre-hung door than it took me... why? Because He too learned from an old timer.... problem is, things were different then. Don't get me wrong, old timers are great, the wealth of knowledge is enormous, but take it for what it cost you. There may be better ways.

To say that Festool USA was trying to pull a fast one, is to me, somewhat insulting. [2cents]

 

[tjbnwi]

Holzhacker,

Like you I do this professionally, I also was at the cabinet class this month when the RAS was demonstrated. The piece was not back beveled and worked exactly as shown. The person in the class who tried the unit had no experience with it and produced excellent results.

It would be on my short list of tools to purchase, if my two oldest were not getting married this year (broke again/still, damn kids!!!!).

Maybe they can shoot another video of a 2x being scribed, with no back bevel???????

The most disappointing part of the video is, at the end they did not show the floor below the piece clearly. The floor is a very dark epoxy, in the class demo there was a minuscule amount of dust on the floor.

I do not believe there was any deceit intended, they did the piece exactly as you (an assumption on my part) or I would have done in the shop or field.

Tom   

 

[greg mann]

Interesting.

Looks like a wonderful shaping tool. Are there any convex pads?

Actually, Eiiji, The edge of the disc is convex. If you are using a very coarse grit, and recognize the limitations of a sanding disc, (and I am sure you would) you can do many things a convex wheel can do. I used mine to craft some contoured thresholds that led from one floor to another that were not exactly on the same plane. I started with an angle grinder using a textured carbide convex disc and gave that up real quick; way too much dust. I tried the RAS, thinking that it would take forever but at least be less dust. It cut as fast as I cared to go and was very easy to control. My vision of what I wanted, a threshold that was rectangular at the ends so that the molding on the walls was straight level and square with convex and concave blends so that anyone walking from one room to the other in their stocking feet would feel a nice transition, was easy to do and very fast. I treated it like any sanding job and just worked my way up through the grits.

 

[Dan Clark]

Dan,

Ace Tool also carries the Alpha line, and may have more M14 accessories.  Also looks like they carry a M14 - 5/8" adapter that may work for some applications. 

mwhafner,

I took a look.  It looks like they have some M14 adapters and other 14mm options.  I've purchased from Ace Tool before and found them to be a good company. 

Having 14mm arbor accessories available makes the RAS a nice, viable option.  All told, I have maybe 25 man-hours using my Makita wet and dry grinders to polish stone.  (25 hours spinning on stone, not clock time.) Not much experience, but enough to make get a feel for using them and appreciating what they can do.  The single biggest issue I've had with my dry grinder is dust.  The RAS should help resolve that problem and make the process less onerous. 

I understand that Festool USA doesn't warrant the vacs for stone work.  Since my CT22 is out of warranty, I'm less worried about that.  I believe the biggest problem when polishing stone and sucking up the dust is that the dust clogs the pores in the vac's paper bag, making the vac motor work harder.  For me, the solution is simple.  When I vacuum up a lot of stone dust from a polishing session, I simply remove and throw the bag away.  Bags are expensive, but it's cheap insurance to reduce the risk of damaging my vac.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Dan,

Ace Tool also carries the Alpha line, and may have more M14 accessories.  Also looks like they carry a M14 - 5/8" adapter that may work for some applications. 

mwhafner,

I took a look.  It looks like they have some M14 adapters and other 14mm options.  I've purchased from Ace Tool before and found them to be a good company.   

Having 14mm arbor accessories available makes the RAS a nice, viable option.   All told, I have maybe 25 man-hours using my Makita wet and dry grinders to polish stone.  (25 hours spinning on stone, not clock time.) Not much experience, but enough to make get a feel for using them and appreciating what they can do.   The single biggest issue I've had with my dry grinder is dust.   The RAS should help resolve that problem and make the process less onerous. 

I understand that Festool USA doesn't warrant the vacs for stone work.   Since my CT22 is out of warranty, I'm less worried about that.   I believe the biggest problem when polishing stone and sucking up the dust is that the dust clogs the pores in the vac's paper bag, making the vac motor work harder.   For me, the solution is simple.   When I vacuum up a lot of stone dust from a polishing session, I simply remove and throw the bag away.   Bags are expensive, but it's cheap insurance to reduce the risk of damaging my vac.

Regards,

Dan.

Wonder if the Dust Deputy would help.....

 

[Dan Clark]

Michael,

I don't think so.  The DD will help with larger chunks and sawdust.  I believe that most of the fine dust (like stone dust) will go into the vac bag.

Regards,

Dan.

 

[Jonhilgen]

Dave,

I was recently on a job where the stone masons had installed flagstone up a wall to the corners.  The owner's then decided to add car siding to the adjascent walls.  After looking at scribing about 50lf of trim, 25 vertical on each side of the fireplace,  it was decided that the best coarse of action would be to have the masons use their grinders to score a shallow line the depth of the siding, and manually clean out the groove, thus allowing the wood siging to be tucked into the stone. 

It wasn't as messy as one might think.  You could even mitigate the dust further by use of additional vacs, zipwall, even a small bit of water.  Whatever may work for your circumstance. 

Having completed many, many lf. of scribing against all materials,  I've learned it's sometimes best to look at all sides and maybe a straight line is the best path.

Dan

Dave,

Dan is right on the money.  Just because you can scribe to stone, it doesn't mean you should.  It took me three weeks to install two base cabinets and two upper cabinets by scribing them to stone.  I'm sure it would have taken less than half the time if I had the sense to tell either the builder or the stone mason to grind out a plumb line and butt the cabinets to the back of the stone.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I spent about 5 hours of bonding time with my ras this weekend.

I use it and my Rotex to do the edge and detail work when I sand and re-finish wood floors.

Some 36 grit on the ras and I can level my dip at the wall left by my drum sander.

Follow with my rotex and then hit my corners with the deltex 93.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Dan C.,

Oneida promotes their Dust Deputy for use with more than wood dust.  Stone dust should have a greater density than wood dust and the DD collects wood dust from sanding fairly well.  And even small chunks of wood bang around in my DD until I shut down the vacuum and they fall into the catch bucket beneath the cyclone.   I recommend giving a cyclone a try.  

Dave R.

 

[Kevin Stricker]

I spent about 5 hours of bonding time with my ras this weekend.

I use it and my Rotex to do the edge and detail work when I sand and re-finish wood floors.

Some 36 grit on the ras and I can level my dip at the wall left by my drum sander.

Follow with my rotex and then hit my corners with the deltex 93.

What paper/grit do you use on your DX 93? 

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I like the brilliant for the dx. It cuts well.

I think I use some Rubin to finish the bare wood off.

 

[Warrior]

proof is in the puding. I was dissappointed not to see them fit the scribe to whatever he was scribing too.

It does look like a great shaping tool though. I would like to see some disks shaped like the grinder sanding disks too.

 

[Jeff Magnus]

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this before, but I also use my RAS to shape and polish stone and concrete. It does such a fine job that I havent picked up my water feed polisher in several years. Alpha makes backers and cups that will thread the RAS. I'm sure there are other manufacturers that will thread, but Ive had good luck with the Alpha line. I'm glad to see the RAS finally getting some recognition.

Jeff,

I did a search for Alpha tile and stone products.  Here's an example: http://www.contractorsdirect.com/Alpha-Coarse-Continuous-Cup-Wheel .  All of the ones I could find had 5/8-11 threads.   Have you got a link to RAS-sized Alpha cups?  

Thanks,

Dan.

Dan,

For some reason most of the 5/8-11 will thread the RAS as long as it isnt made in China. Its not a perfect fit, but once the cup seats flush with the body of the RAS your good to go. I know most might hesitate to do so, but Ive been doing it for several years now and still have no problem threading the festool backers back on the RAS. If youd like I can post pics and the models of all the cups and backers Ive found that work. Most of what I buy for stone comes from http://www.masterwholesale.com/

 

[Brice Burrell]

Dan,

For some reason most of the 5/8-11 will thread the RAS as long as it isnt made in China. Its not a perfect fit, but once the cup seats flush with the body of the RAS your good to go. I know most might hesitate to do so, but Ive been doing it for several years now and still have no problem threading the festool backers back on the RAS. If youd like I can post pics and the models of all the cups and backers Ive found that work. Most of what I buy for stone comes from http://www.masterwholesale.com/

I'd like to see what you've gotten to work with your RAS.

 

[Dan Clark]

Dan,

For some reason most of the 5/8-11 will thread the RAS as long as it isnt made in China. Its not a perfect fit, but once the cup seats flush with the body of the RAS your good to go. I know most might hesitate to do so, but Ive been doing it for several years now and still have no problem threading the festool backers back on the RAS. If youd like I can post pics and the models of all the cups and backers Ive found that work. Most of what I buy for stone comes from http://www.masterwholesale.com/

I'd like to see what you've gotten to work with your RAS.

I'd like to see those pics too.  Most of the stone tools I buy come from Master Wholesale, including most of my dry and wet pads.  I'll be happy to use the native Festool backers for polishing with my diamond pads.  It would be nice to have wire brushes and cups that work too.

Thanks,

Dan.
I'd like to se