Sanding
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ccarrolladams
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Ron, the reason I posted is that my experience with all the Rotex sanders going back to 2006, and the experience of those I know in person, has been that the technique in Peter's demonstration is far less effective, for rough as well as finish sanding, than the technique advocated by Festool Training in Germany as well as by Festool USA.
But as I say, each of us needs to find the methods working best for us.
But as I say, each of us needs to find the methods working best for us.
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ccarrolladams said:
I would love to know how Festool Germany recommend that the Rotex machines are used and how that differs from the Festool UK version.
Peter
nickao
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I use the Rotex 150 extensively not the little 90. I always have the front handle on the RO150 and for me it is much simpler to keep the pad perfectly flat using it(it is closer to how the Germans do it in the vid with the hand on the front of the sander). My job is keeping large discs perfectly flat so I do a lot of it.
We all have our own techniques. Ease of use and final results for is different each person. One person may get better results using one technique and never understand how another person uses a different technique as that technique may be difficult for them. If the final results are what one wants it works. I guess the key for tool companies is finding a technique that most people like, not that every person likes. Like carroll said, to each his own.
Does the RO90 offer a front handle like they do for the RO150?
We all have our own techniques. Ease of use and final results for is different each person. One person may get better results using one technique and never understand how another person uses a different technique as that technique may be difficult for them. If the final results are what one wants it works. I guess the key for tool companies is finding a technique that most people like, not that every person likes. Like carroll said, to each his own.
Does the RO90 offer a front handle like they do for the RO150?
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RonWen's post of the video is interesting.
I thought that they were on a tight budget and could not afford the extractor (during the Carvex demo) but they managed to find one in time for the Rotex 90 demo. I am not impressed by people who demonstrate a jigsaw by making random cuts that look good but - could they do it following a line?
I think that the Rotex demo was the same as the one that Festool UK did - it works really well and I am glad that I was at the show when it was being demonstrated by the Festool UK chap.
Peter
I thought that they were on a tight budget and could not afford the extractor (during the Carvex demo) but they managed to find one in time for the Rotex 90 demo. I am not impressed by people who demonstrate a jigsaw by making random cuts that look good but - could they do it following a line?
I think that the Rotex demo was the same as the one that Festool UK did - it works really well and I am glad that I was at the show when it was being demonstrated by the Festool UK chap.
Peter
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...a straight cut - I love it - brilliant.
Peter
Peter
John Stevens
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Sorry, I know this thread is old, but FWIW, here's some info I learned on festoolusa.com about how fast to move the sanders.
There was once an article by Niall Barrett in which he recommended moving the random orbital sanders at a rate no faster than one inch per second. I've been using that speed ever since (countless hours over the past 7+ years) and have never needed to make more than two passes per grit, often only one. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find that article for several years. I hope it hasn't been removed from the site.
There's another article (I think from an early edition of Sys Notes) that recommended a quick, back-and-forth motion for sanders other than random-orbit sanders. I've found that technique to work well with the DTS and the RO90 in rotary and "delta" modes.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
John
There was once an article by Niall Barrett in which he recommended moving the random orbital sanders at a rate no faster than one inch per second. I've been using that speed ever since (countless hours over the past 7+ years) and have never needed to make more than two passes per grit, often only one. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find that article for several years. I hope it hasn't been removed from the site.
There's another article (I think from an early edition of Sys Notes) that recommended a quick, back-and-forth motion for sanders other than random-orbit sanders. I've found that technique to work well with the DTS and the RO90 in rotary and "delta" modes.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
John
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I agree, having just spent half the afternoon sanding a slice of burr oak and still seeing slight scores. I represent Flexifoam from Belgium and they do some lovely foam backed abrasives so I have samples I can use to finish to a superb result, trouble is I need to get close to a good finish first!
http://www.flexifoam.com/
http://www.flexifoam.com/
Ken Nagrod
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Scott B. said:
Why yes, ol' chap. Me. If you're nice, I'll do one for you. [big grin] I also cope with a coping saw pretty lickity split.
truck90278
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Evidently there are a lot of questions about sanding using Festool sanders. I recently talked with Steve Bace and it appears Festool is developing a clase to be taught by Festool just for sanding starting sometime after the first of the year.
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Ken Nagrod said:
Nagrod! So, you can be the Last Crafstman at the FOG.
I am surprised at how many people seem to really believe that hand sanding could possibly produce the best result. Again, coming from someone who spent most of his professional life doing it.
Ken Nagrod
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Scott,
Seriously though, dovetailing by machine is going to be faster then by hand on multiple pieces with everything else being equal. You do have to account for setup time of the power tool method to determine which way you think will be faster or more productive.
Back to the sanding bit. I have to respectfully disagree with what you said about hand sanding, from my own experiences and learning in both the autobody field and woodworking/carpentry field. As an example, I remember taking a wood finishing workshop with Michael Dresdner around 14 years ago, if that makes any difference. He taught us to finish up with hand sanding using garnet sandpaper in the direction of the grain.
Also, from doing bodywork, I learned that finishing the sanding schedule by hand and by machine were different. By hand it was recommended to progress to the next finer grit.
Seriously though, dovetailing by machine is going to be faster then by hand on multiple pieces with everything else being equal. You do have to account for setup time of the power tool method to determine which way you think will be faster or more productive.
Back to the sanding bit. I have to respectfully disagree with what you said about hand sanding, from my own experiences and learning in both the autobody field and woodworking/carpentry field. As an example, I remember taking a wood finishing workshop with Michael Dresdner around 14 years ago, if that makes any difference. He taught us to finish up with hand sanding using garnet sandpaper in the direction of the grain.
Also, from doing bodywork, I learned that finishing the sanding schedule by hand and by machine were different. By hand it was recommended to progress to the next finer grit.
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Ken Nagrod said:
Ken
In the end, whatever works best, and fits the agenda, of each individual is really all that matters. But in my world of projects, product, tool, customers and employees, I have to benchmark and make those calls. As recently as two years ago, I wouldnt have imagined a program where just about every single sanding task could be powered, with remarkable dust containment.
Sanding for finish is a repetitive task. Again, not unlike many carpentry tasks. If I have to cut 3 mortises in a door, is it better to set up a router or to use a chisel, and which will give me the more perfect result time after time and more efficiently?
So much has changed in recent years on the finish side...I like the timeless nostalgia of hand based craftsmanship. I will always value good brushwork a notch higher than good spray work. But that is in application. All steps leading up to that crescendo dont deserve that same honoring.
The only reason I can see anymore to finish by hand is if there is any kind of subtle scratch pattern happening in the power sanding steps. With granat, and good understanding of wood species, product, sander, grit, extraction rate and technique to avoid burn through, it is possible to see no swirlies or scratch pattern when stepping through 10 grits.
I was just working with the RS2 yesterday in fact and thinking about this whole discussion. In my own life, if I end up hand sanding, something has gone wrong.
John Stevens said:
I found these, might help someone, Niall's article is bit short. Didn't read Jerry's article.
Niall Barret; http://www.festoolusa.com/Web_files/swirl_marks_tips.pdf
Jerry Work; http://www.festoolusa.com/Web_files/Getting_the_most_from_Festool_sanders.pdf
Vesa
