Saving Money on Sandpaper

[DavidCBaker]

So, I'm busy with a project this weekend and I'm down to the final sanding. I whip out the ETS 125 and start sanding the panels on a small box.

I don't seem to be getting much dust, which is a testament to Festool dust extraction technology. On the other hand, it doesn't seem to be doing much. I figure that maybe the sandpaper is worn and it's time for a new sheet.

[That's when I realize that there's no sheet of sandpaper at all, and I've been sanding with just the pad. [tongue] It did smooth things over a bit, but otherwise it was one of those dope-slap moments.]

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Been there, done that.  Still have the slap marks on the forehead. [big grin]

 

[mouppe]

David,

My world changed this weekend when I was shown how to use a #4 smoothing plane. In a few passes, the wood was polished like glass. No amount of sanding can achieve this because a plane slices the wood and a sander abrades it, even through you can go up to 1000 grit or more. if you are doing things like small boxes, I suggest you try one out. A sander will always have a very useful place in my workshop, but for an unbeatable hand finish, you cannot beat a plane.

Richard.

 

[DavidCBaker]

That would work better than a pad, for sure! [tongue]

 

[Neill]

David,

My world changed this weekend when I was shown how to use a #4 smoothing plane. In a few passes, the wood was polished like glass. No amount of sanding can achieve this because a plane slices the wood and a sander abrades it, even through you can go up to 1000 grit or more. if you are doing things like small boxes, I suggest you try one out. A sander will always have a very useful place in my workshop, but for an unbeatable hand finish, you cannot beat a plane.

Richard.

Richard,

This is a bit off-topic and I am not really asking for a lesson but as a novice woodworker I just don't understand how you can achieve an even surface on a large workpiece using a hand plane with a 2" wide iron.  It would seem to me that you would wind up with ridges or uneven spots.  I am sure that lots of practice helps.  I am also sure that you are probably very good at it.

My L-N block plane is great for what it is, but for larger surfaces I prefer my #12, that is my 12" DeWalt surface planer. [smile]

Neill

 

[mouppe]

David,

My world changed this weekend when I was shown how to use a #4 smoothing plane. In a few passes, the wood was polished like glass. No amount of sanding can achieve this because a plane slices the wood and a sander abrades it, even through you can go up to 1000 grit or more. if you are doing things like small boxes, I suggest you try one out. A sander will always have a very useful place in my workshop, but for an unbeatable hand finish, you cannot beat a plane.

Richard.

Richard,

This is a bit off-topic and I am not really asking for a lesson but as a novice woodworker I just don't understand how you can achieve an even surface on a large workpiece using a hand plane with a 2" wide iron.  It would seem to me that you would wind up with ridges or uneven spots.  I am sure that lots of practice helps.  I am also sure that you are probably very good at it.

My L-N block plane is great for what it is, but for larger surfaces I prefer my #12, that is my 12" DeWalt surface planer. [smile]

Neill

Hi Neill,

Sorry I did not mean to start a huge discussion about hand planes, but David was talking about making a small box and I was making the point that he could achieve a better finish with a hand plane than sanding.

However, in answer to your question, a smoothing plane will often have a small camber to the plane- a little like a wide saucer as you look directly at it- and so as you plane across a wide surface all the saucers become connected leaving a smooth surface. You can take progressively lighter and lighter shavings- perhaps just a few thousands of an inch- whilst checking for flatness with a straight edge.

My 12" planer will dimension my rough lumber to close to where I want to be, but hand planes will get the glassy finish I want. I hope this explains what I meant a little better.

Don't get me wrong, I adore my festools and have at times considered booting the wife out of bed to make room for a couple of systainers, but since woodworking is a hobby for me I can afford the time to use hand tools to get that little extra precision and finesse after the power tools have got me 99% of the way.

Richard.

 

[Neill]

Richard,

Thanks for the explanation.  Bless you for having a heck of a lot more patience than I do.

Neill

 

[Rob-GB]

David, I had similar experience while working in a cheapskate workshop, the super cheap "stik fix" sanding pads would unstik and fly off leaving the poor sanding pad to attempt the impossible! [laughing] ;D

Rob.

 

[justinmcf]

hi david.

trust me, you are not alone!

the good news is... you will only make this mistake once.

i always double check to see if there is a disc on now!

justin.

 

[johnnyinnb]

hi david.

trust me, you are not alone!

the good news is... you will only make this mistake once.

i always double check to see if there is a disc on now!

justin.

the bad news is I have done it a few times in 27 years

 

[zapdafish]

what about a smoothing plane vs a piece of wood polished by a Rotex?

 

[mouppe2]

what about a smoothing plane vs a piece of wood polished by a Rotex?

I have both. This calls for a video!

Richard.

 

[AlexThePalex]

You might have saved some money on sandpaper, but how's your pad? I've done this once with my older non-Festool random orbit sander and my pad's velcro was toast right away so I could buy a new one.

 

[DavidCBaker]

The pad actually seems undamaged. I didn't use it for long without paper attached, thankfully.

 

[mouppe]

Here's a link to a quick video I made comparing the rotex 125 to a hand plane finish. My camera was a little off at the end so here is a picture of the two boards side by side. Rotex on the left, hand plane on the right.

Be nice, I made it really quickly in answer to a question above!  [embarassed]

Richard.

Festool Rotex 125 vs Lee Valley Hand Plane

[attachthumb=#]

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Richard, I like your British accent.  Really.  Anyway it was a good video even though I wasn't able to see all of it for technical reasons, who knows why, I don't know   [mad].  You can definitely see the amount of torque the RO125 has even with the piece clamped.  Ok.  I finally was able to view the whole video at 360P instead of 480P.  At that low res I couldn't differentiate between the two, but I know what you're talking about.

Good Job! [thanks]

 

[justinmcf]

thanks for the video and picture richard.

the board that has been hand planed looks great, however the board that has been sanded looks dull in comparison.

how did it look to you when you were doing the side by side comparison?

justin.

 

[mouppe]

Both boards are smooth to the touch- as smooth as you could ever hope for. However, the planed board is polished. It actually reflects the light. The sanded board is just as smooth, but is not reflective. Timewise, no comparison. Hand planing requires a long time when you factor in honing the plane blade. That's why it is good for small surfaces, or one-off pieces of fine furniture. But if I have to cover a large area? Rotex every time.

As it happens, my plane blade needed sharpening in the video. When it is sharp, the plane slices across the board like butter. Six or seven passes on a board of that size and you are done. Thirty seconds max and on to the finish.

I need both tools at different times. But for what I do as a hobbyist, I am increasingly reaching for the hand plane and discovering more uses for it. I love its feel, the sound of it, its weight and the its precision. Being able to control it to within thousands of an inch. No one in their right mind would ignore power tools, and Festool make the best ones around, but the hand tools certainly earn their place in the workshop.

Richard.

 

[Neill]

Richard,

Short notice or not, great video.  You must keep a camera setup at the ready in your workshop.

I know I have a setup in the bedroom just in case the wife ever decides to turn over.  [wink] [smile]

Neill

 

[mouppe]

Richard,

Short notice or not, great video.  You must keep a camera setup at the ready in your workshop.

I know I have a setup in the bedroom just in case the wife ever decides to turn over.   [wink] [smile]

Neill

I stacked two sys 4s on top of my workbench, and clamped my iphone to them! The video quality from the iphone is actually really good, but the camera is rubbish. When I held the boards up to the phone for a close-up you can see I was way off!

But at least the video shows how easy and quick it is to smooth a board with a hand plane.