What are your thoughts on Used Festool Valuation?

[onocoffee]

I routinely peruse FB Marketplace in my area for used Festool and wanted to know your opinions on used tool valuation. Time and time again I see people asking for what I consider to be ridiculous prices for a tool that is obviously older than the warranty period, and typically accompanied by claims of being "used once" or "one project" and then the tool and the systainer look quite a bit worn.

One recent person was asking $450 for an OF1400 that was made in June 2006 and said it had only been used once or twice. Am I going to spend that much money on an 18 year old tool that, if it had been only used "once or twice," may need serious servicing?

I'm not against buying used. Recently, I purchased a used TS 55 FEQ with FS1400/2 rail for $550 - came with the receipt and I was able to register it properly while saving $250 (including the local tax), so I considered that a great deal.

I'm interested to know what the more experienced here think in order to calibrate my expectations.

 

[Muttley000]

Most used festools around me are ridiculously priced. For 50 bucks more why would I not buy new and eliminate risk of scammers, unknown damage, ease of warranty. I look often, but have only pulled the trigger once and that was on this forum.

 

[xedos]

My thoughts are - it's like everything else.  You don't get if you don't ask.  The market sets the price.

If there are enough idiots (IMO) out there that want to pay more than a tool cost new 17 earlier, then there's nothing I can do about it.  There is no point whining about it or wishing it were different.  Vote with your pocketbook.

n.b.  think I might list my Festools and see if there are any fesfools out there that essentially want to pay me for my tool rentals.  Then I'll turn around and buy all new ones and do it again.  [blink]

 

[luvmytoolz]

For me it would need to no more than about 40-60% of original price depending on age and rarity, otherwise I'm buying new with a warranty. Having said that I did sell my 40+ year old RO1E (the very first Rotex released around 1980) not long back for close to $300 from memory.

I don't think I've ever seen general power tools command such high 2nd hand sales like Festool.

 

[Duckler]

I think this is an interesting topic.
And I think the reconditioned website for Festools is a better place to hunt for used Festools.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

The bottom line is what the actual condition is, the desirability of the tool to you and what YOU are willing to pay. I've bought a number of Festool products from folks that were indeed "barely used". The cost was higher than most other brands for similar tools (assuming there is similar) but lower enough from new that it was worth it to me. You the consumer are always in charge here.

 

[alltracman78]

I routinely peruse FB Marketplace in my area for used Festool and wanted to know your opinions on used tool valuation. Time and time again I see people asking for what I consider to be ridiculous prices for a tool that is obviously older than the warranty period, and typically accompanied by claims of being "used once" or "one project" and then the tool and the systainer look quite a bit worn.

One recent person was asking $450 for an OF1400 that was made in June 2006 and said it had only been used once or twice. Am I going to spend that much money on an 18 year old tool that, if it had been only used "once or twice," may need serious servicing?

People are nuts.
Used, no warranty, my time/gas to drive, haggling, all drive the value down IMO. Plus people (sometimes) hide things when they sell used. And if you're unfamiliar with a tool you can miss it.
Unless it's at least a couple hundred less I won't even consider used. I look but very rarely buy used.
I have quite a few by now, and aside from a couple of discontinued tools I've only bought one used. Everything else new.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

My experience in the UK is that it depends on the tool. Ebay is constantly flooded with crazy-cheap TS55’s because their owners (mostly pro carpenters or so it seems - many of these are 110-volt saws) are replacing them with either new ones, or are stepping up to a TS60. These machines have always had a hard life - and their condition shows. But to many - a well-worn TS55 is still a better buy than a no-name cheap-out which performs badly, and for which no parts are available.

Other tools (Dominos, routers etc.) hold their value very well. Expect to pay around 20% below list at two years old.

 

[Kev]

Let's take a logical perspective and relate buying second hand to gambling. From that, look as your comfort with risk. To my thinking the idea of buying a second hand and out of warranty power tool from an unknown seller that is more than 50% of current retail is high risk. If you inspect the tool and determine that it's not stolen and is legitimately low to zero use you may consider paying ~65% of retail. If it still has transferable warranty maybe ~75% of retail.

My personal preference has always been to buy new and that hasn't changed.

 

[ChuckM]

For most premium machines -- Festool or not -- or cars, I prefer to buy new.

I do buy second-hands, but they have to be sold at 50% or less of the current retail prices unless they are pretty new (acquired by the owner within one year or rarely used), in which case the prices can be at 70% of the current retail prices or less.

 

[friedchicken]

When you look, you'll find a tool that looks like it's been thrown into the flames of mount doom, then cared for by gollum, before being listed at 10% off MSRP

 

[mino]

One big thing to consider is the location and the VAT/tax regime.

In EU, there is in average of 20-25 % VAT involved for end consumers while businesses do not (de facto) pay this.

When a Pro passes on a used tool, in 99% cases the new price to him was only 80% of retail. This arrangement combined with the ease of selling tools incentivizes the used tools market. It is financially desirable for small companies to pass-on tools (unofficially) each few years once they can formally "discard" them. It is pretty common to give "discarded" but perfectly fine tools to employees as a benefit who will then sell them on. This, on one hand, makes the used tools more attractive for hobby users while dis-incentivising the selling of tools - a non-registered user "loses" the VAT when selling on as he cannot pass the VAT savings along.

Compared to places like US which have low to no VAT, this "skews" the used tool prices in Europe and other places with high VAT. Anything used, even with a warranty, is mostly non-sellable above 70% of the retail price over here. But those "70%" are close to 90% percent of actual cost when looked at by a small business.

Keeping the VAT effect in mind makes the US "normal" of used tools selling at 80-90% retail (which is also cited without VAT) suddenly logical to a European and vice versa. Here those "90% of a new (non-VAT) price" would translate into "70% of VAT incl. price". And that is very much a thing. While "90% retail VAT inclusive" is a sci-fi/scalpers territory.

EDIT: mumbled logic sentences fixed

 

[Coen]

Some businesses might also get a tax-deductible for "investments", including tools. Then in 3 years they can move that tool to their private ownership for 10% of original price, then sell it on. That bypasses the income tax too.

Anything used Festool listed "too low" is immediately bought up by traders and re-appears with better photo's and a higher asking price a week later...

The few things Festool I did snatch at a nice price were listings where I was very fast after it appeared and offered at or above asking price.

 

[kevinculle]

I bought my 2009 vintage Kapex with UG stand and extensions around 2015 for right about 50% of the then price.  I thought that was fair and I can't ever imagine paying a much larger percentage for a used tool.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

It has been my experience that I can sell Festool tools used in a professional but careful manner for ~25% to 30% less than the current new retail cost. For older tools, this sometimes means I'm selling for greater than the price I originally paid. Frequently, the buyer is another business looking to acquire a back-up for a tool they already own, and may not touch the tool for many years, making the warranty essentially irrelevant to them.

The other scenario is discontinued tools, for instance Vac-Sys and others, where it's really the Wild West, and you can sell for multiple times the cost of "new".

This was the case when I sold my CMS-OF. The setup was discontinued, the buyer already had a system and really liked it, and wanted a complete back-up, knowing this might be their last best chance to get a good condition, complete system.

The price is what the market will bear. Some folks want the warranty, other folks seem highly motivated to pay something/anything less than retail. In the case of discontinued tools, if it's for sale and the buyer needs it, they'll pay whatever they think the true value is of the tool, rather than some arbitrary sense of "but it only retailed for _____".

In terms of the warranty, it has been my experience that if a tool is going to fail, it will fail in the first month or so. If a tool makes it past that first month, it is likely (though of course not guaranteed) to last a long time.